Why You Absolutely MUST Beta Test Before Launching a Program with Lori Kennedy
We were googley-eyed over today’s guest…the OG of online health marketing, Lori Kennedy! Lori is the founder and CEO of The Wellness Business Hub which provides professional training and personal development for health practitioners looking to build and grow their businesses online. In 2012 she started her online business, while still running her in person nutrition consulting. By 2014 she was able to close in person consult and focus solely on her online programs. Holy crap right?! How did she do it? Well you’re about to find out.
Obviously a lot has changed since 2012…let’s face it, with online marketing things change daily! So how does Lori keep up? As she put it, the tactics change, but the fundamentals don't. For example, tactics could be what was webinars but are now FB live. The fundamentals of understanding the principles of client attraction and conversion and how to actually sell doesn’t change. And this also includes the evolution of personal brand. Back in Lori’s day (which makes her sound so old but she still a young duck), it was all about posting a blog a day to get your name out there. But now, it’s about showing up and being present on your social platforms – engaging with your followers and being a leader to your tribe. people in the health & wellness industry don't necessarily understand how to being a persona or a brand, they're used to teaching and providing recipes, and doing only that doesn't work in 2019.
Lori is also an expert on launching health & wellness programs and the first thing that needs to be done before anything is launched is to beta test the crap out of it! A beta test should have a minimum of 5 people, whether you’re doing a group program on one on one coaching. By doing a beta test first, you not only have testimonials from those clients for when you launch your full program, but you can make tweaks to what they liked, didn’t like and improve it.
In this episode, we talk about the benefits of beta testing, how mindset plays a role on how you run your business (even making 5 or 6 figures in a successful business, there are still things that trigger you), and the steps you need to take to create a successful online wellness course.
In addition to being the founder and CEO of The Wellness Business Hub, Lori is also a mom, and lover of all things related to coffee. Lori’s two foundational programs The Wellness Business Academy and The 10K Success System are growing a powerful community of health leaders who are transforming the way healthcare is done all over the world. She is also the host of The Business of Becoming Podcast for entrepreneurs who want to build the business and life of their dreams… all on their own terms.
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Christine: Hello everyone, and welcome to this brand new wonderful episode of the 360 Health Biz Podcast. And today it's a Getty because you have Kendra Perry, my wonderful co hostess with the mostess.
Kendra Perry: Thank you.
Christine: And my humble self, Christine. And we match again, I don't know why, but you have to watch us on YouTube. It's the funniest thing in the world. Like, recently we just seem to have this dress for success amazing vibe. I don't know.
Kendra Perry: How did we both choose orange and black, like random colors, a color I never wear.
Christine: I know. [crosstalk 00:00:31] It's super weird. I don't know. I'm watching Mad Men so maybe I'm inspired by the 70s or something like that, I don't know. But today we have ... Oh, actually Lori is in the same vibe as well. We have-
Lori Kennedy: Just going to say, we all kind of are matchy matchy.
Christine: ... It's super true. Like, look at this stunning [inaudible 00:00:48] I feel. So let me introduce you to this fantastic guest of ours. You will learn so much in this episode. It will ... Seriously, your brain is going to explode. So Lori Kennedy is the founder and the CEO of the Wellness Business Hub, love that actually, which provides professional training and personal development for health practitioners looking to build and grow their businesses online. Two things that I can just say you have to have. If you just do one or the other, it's not going to work.
Christine: She's also a mom and a lover of all things related to coffee. Lori's two foundational programs, the Wellness Business Academy and the 10K Success System are growing a powerful business, a powerful community of health leaders who are transforming the way healthcare is done all over the world. She's also the host of the Business of Becoming Podcast for entrepreneurs who want to build a business and life of their dreams all on their own terms. And obviously, we are big fans of that. So sort of liked Lori to welcome you today and to help us with our listeners and to basically guide, teach us, let us know all your goodies that you have stored in your brain.
Lori Kennedy: Thank you for having me.
Christine: So for all of you, just very quickly, you can obviously catch the video on your audio, but also on YouTube if you want to see it, and on our website, which is 360healthbizpodcast.com. So fly over there and then Kendra, I'm going to give you the floor for our first questions that we're going to bombard Lori with.
Kendra Perry: Yeah. Well, first of all, I would love to know just a quick version of your story, because I know you used to be a health coach and then you transitioned over to supporting health coaches. So can you tell us a little bit about, yeah, where you got started and how that transition happened just for our members who don't know you.
Lori Kennedy: Totally. I was actually a registered holistic nutritionist. And I've always been in the health industry. So I started as a personal trainer. I got my first PT certification in 1999 through the YMCA. I've never had a proper corporate job, so the nine to five thing wasn't really ever sort of in the cards for me. And I did personal training for a long time. I was part of a team, this was I guess my only sort of proper job. I was part of a team, a startup team for a 20,000 square foot health and fitness facility.
Lori Kennedy: And so because of my background, I was a gymnastics coach, and I was a competitive dancer and I was a camp counselor. I was in charge of the teen section. I was given this budget at 24 years old to go and outfit this massive section and create all of the programming for it and all of that. So that was really my foray, and to understanding what it was to be an entrepreneur, because there were two men who started this big facility. And during that time I was also still training and I was doing a lot of things and I decided to go back to school to become a registered holistic nutritionist, this was 2007.
Lori Kennedy: And from there it just sort of evolved. My career evolved. I had a full time practice for seven years that I closed at the end of 2014. I had my signature program called Wow! Weight Loss that ended up running in nine different locations, and I had licensed it out to dozens of health practitioners across Canada. And just very naturally, very organically found my way onto the internet, because I had two small children and I really wanted financial independence.
Lori Kennedy: I really wanted to have a bigger impact. I knew that I was made for more. I knew that having this one type of business wasn't going to be the end game for me. And so I started to take it online in 2012 and I did both at the same time. So I ran my full time nutrition practice while I was growing my online business, which is basically two full time jobs, plus I had two more kids. And I was able to make enough money at the end of 2014 to be able to close my nutrition practice. And so for me, the goal was I had to make 10% more than what I know I needed three consecutive months in a row.
Lori Kennedy: Because if I was able to do it three consecutive months in a row, that meant that I actually knew what I was doing, it wasn't random and I could just continue that. And so when that happened, that was my sort of exit plan from my nutrition. It took me about six months to probably end up closing it. And so since end of 2014, beginning of 2015, we've been growing this hub on the internet and servicing tens of thousands of practitioners and coaches and Fit Pros literally from all over the world.
Kendra Perry: That's amazing. And so I did the same. I did the Canadian school of natural nutrition as well. I did that same program and I would love to know what is your opinion on the business model that they teach in that program and maybe similar programs?
Lori Kennedy: So I think regardless of where you went to school, the school, the certification, their purpose isn't to teach you business. Their purpose is to give you the professional education that gives you a beginner skill set to start working with clients. Because the world that we now live in changes so frequently, I don't even think it would be possible for them-
Kendra Perry: But to the point.
Lori Kennedy: ... to really keep up with. And that's also not their purpose. It's like if you think about it from the perspective of a doctor. Yes, doctors have to have private practices, but imagine if half of the doctors education was in business versus in doctoring, right? Like, in all of the things that they needed. It's the same thing with us. I think anything ... Could curriculum be improved? Of course it could, but that's not their area of expertise. They teach what they know and what they know is the key fundamentals of the mind, body, spirit of holistically improving health.
Lori Kennedy: And so I think where the breakdown is, isn't so much in the professional institutions, it's in the lack of understanding that this is one aspect that is required to be successful. I think that's where the breakdown is, is I know for myself, when I went to do my PT certifications, when I went to go do my registered holistic nutrition designation, under no circumstances was I even aware at all that I was a business owner, that I was starting a company, that I had to do all of the things, learn all of the skills that would contribute to my success.
Lori Kennedy: I was just obsessed with figuring out the body and learning nutrition and geeking out on research. And it never occurred to me even after I graduated, even after I rented a space in a Wellness clinic. It took me over a year to figure out, "Oh, there is books on selling that I can read from the library." Like, what's marketing? I had a brochure and I ran free talks that my mom and her friends came to. It didn't occur to me at all that I also had to acquire the same level of skill set, if not greater, for business. So I think that's perhaps where the breakdown is, is that people going into these ...
Lori Kennedy: I think the one thing that we all have in common regardless of our designation, is that we come from a place of service first. So whether that's wanting to improve the quality of your own health or your family's health or your friends' health or whatever that may be, most of us who become health professionals do it because we want to be of service to ourselves or others. We do it because we're nerds and we geek out on this stuff and we like it, and it's interesting and we want to improve the quality of our health. And so we don't necessarily go into it thinking, "I'm going to do this as a business. I'm an entrepreneur. I better go and acquire skills." It's an afterthought, and I think that's where the breakdown is.
Christine: Yeah, very often. I don't entirely agree because that wasn't for me, it's always kind of different for another person. I really saw my niche and I was like, "I want to be an entrepreneur, and this is my niche where I want to go." And so it's a little bit different, but I do agree that 99% of the time it's exactly the kind of person or the journey that people take that are in the health industry. I'm just a greedy bitch, you know that.
Christine: It's just [inaudible 00:10:31]. But I mean you have got something of everything, and I do ... What is fascinating to me is that when you started, because I cannot imagine. Like, you've witnessed this whole transformation. And I just had a conversation with someone yesterday who was talking to me about all of these webinars they're trying to do, and I was like, "Well, that's very much 2017," which an internet peak is years ago, it's like eons ago. So when you started, I cannot even imagine what the trend was at the time.
Kendra Perry: Well, like, 2012 you're like the original gangster.
Lori Kennedy: Yes, that was like-
Kendra Perry: It's like OG in the house. Right? I'm like, "Jesus, was the internet around in 2012?"
Christine: I don't even know what happened 2012 but it's like, I mean, things must changed so much. Can you remember one thing that was super hot back then and that now is just cringe?
Lori Kennedy: You know what's really interesting about that? Tactics change, but the fundamentals don't. Right? And so the tactic of let's say webinar, which now the tactic would be Facebook Live, let's just say. Right? Webinars still work 100%, I'll just say that. They totally work when they're done right. But the tactics change, but the actual underlying principles of why you're using the tactic that hasn't changed, because business is business, marketing is marketing, it's been around. Direct response marketing and all of that good stuff has been around for how long, right?
Lori Kennedy: I think it's interesting to differentiate between the tactics that change every six months and being able to quickly pivot when the tactic changes because you understand that those underlying fundamentals, you understand the principles of client attraction and nurturing, and conversion and how to actually sell. So whether you're doing a live or a webinar or from the stage, the framework of what you're saying is the same, it's just the tactic changes. So one of the things that was super easy back in the day was blogging. It was ... I mean, you put up a blog and people saw it, right? People also read it, right?
Kendra Perry: Your like, "What? People saw my blog?" Freeze.
Lori Kennedy: They saw the blogs, and people read the blogs and people commented on the blogs.
Kendra Perry: What?
Lori Kennedy: And you didn't need all of this promotion to derive eyeballs to the blog. It just, it was there. And I remember like I've written, I don't even know how many blogs. I mean, I've been blogging since 2010, so for nine years. And there was years where I put out content every single day.
Kendra Perry: Oh my God.
Lori Kennedy: And that's because that's how you got eyeballs, right? Where now, people put out content every single day on Instagram or in a Facebook group. But here's the sort of clincher is if you don't understand how to write for engagement, for attraction, the blog wouldn't have worked back then and the posts don't work now. Right? So it's not so ... And I feel like this is also a mistake that most people make is they're copying the tactics because they see other people doing it and they don't actually understand the framework of how to use Instagram or how to use the Facebook group or how to even blog. Right?
Lori Kennedy: That it would actually get an ROI on your time. Meaning people would either comment or they would do an action from the blog. Right? And I think that's sort of ... It's for sure been so interesting to see the evolution of being a personal brand. You didn't need to be a personal brand back in 2011. You didn't even need to be a brand back in 2015, you didn't need to be. You could still be the professional. Now it's very different. Now people are like, "What color of underwear are you wearing?" And not like a common comment. It's different. It's totally different now with the evolution of Stories.
Lori Kennedy: I remember when Stories came out. I remember when Facebook Live came out. I remember, and it didn't exist. And to some degree I think because also, not all of us, I'm generalizing, but most people in our industry tend to be introverted, tend to be more highly sensitive, tend to be more private, and having to make that shift to becoming a celebrity, to becoming a persona, it's challenging for a lot of people. They don't understand how to communicate in that way, they're used to teaching. They're used to putting up tips and recipes, and that doesn't work in 2019. It worked-
Kendra Perry: Amen.
Lori Kennedy: ... 2015, and 2016 and 2017, but it doesn't work in 2019. To get engagement, to get that person to the next step where it would eventually result in them working with you.
Kendra Perry: Yeah. I mean, that's amazing and it's such a good point. It is a hard thing to do because you're literally trying to show your personality and be yourself to your phone, pretending that there is other people on the other side and you're just like, "How do I actually be myself, who I am in real life with the internet and with my phone?" And you're right, it's such a hard transition. Yeah.
Lori Kennedy: I agree.
Kendra Perry: I mean, I've struggled with it. I feel it, but I mean anything is practice. You just got to do it over, and over and over again.
Lori Kennedy: And I think too, it's not just being yourself, it's having this authoritative frame. Right? Because I think there is a difference in people commenting and just being yourself and giving away free information and showing up with this authoritative, funny, engaging frame or persona that people want to follow. That people aren't just consuming your content because you're funny, right? They're consuming it because you're making them feel a certain way and you're giving them permission to feel however they want to feel, but also you're doing it with the intention of making them slightly uncomfortable so that they want to take an action to move forward.
Lori Kennedy: I think there's a difference, right? People who are just personal brands, who are like celebrities, they can just show up as themselves because they make money from being in movies. Right? You have to almost be a little bit more direct responsy in our persona, right? Where it's not just, "Here is a smoothie," but talking about why you made the smoothie and how the smoothie affected your mood or your insulin or whatever, and sort of adding that little component in, in that, like authoritative leadership type of way, which is really hard for people.
Lori Kennedy: And I think perhaps the reason that it's been easier for me is because I studied direct response marketing and copywritings, I still do. Like, that's my go to. I know how to tell a story, I know how to frame it out. I know my ICA inside and out, and so when I'm sharing being freezing ass cold on the baseball field with my kid, I understand how that's affecting them. I'm not just sharing it because I'm like, "Oh, shit I didn't post today."
Christine: Yes, exactly.
Lori Kennedy: Right?
Christine: I find it really interesting because you kind of talk about yourself, which is very vulnerable, and still you need to circle back to your expertise in a way that is not like a clean break, but it needs to be smooth, it's not easy. Not to forget that the more eyeballs you get, you're like, "Yay," but at the same time you also have comments that aren't so nice. Everyone's a critic nowadays, and so it's like it's this ... I think it's very hard, but at the same time when you talk to people, you tell them that's kind of what you have to do.
Christine: And sometimes it's just really, really ... It's against everything some people in our industry, not stand for, but it's not their character at all. I think Kendra and I, we've managed it and for me it's very, really easy, I just forget someone is watching this. I forget someone is listening to this. I'm always surprised when people actually do.
Christine: But if you're actually aware of that, which probably most people do, how do you help them to take that step and to [inaudible 00:19:34] I mean, you don't always have to take pictures of yourself or videos or even having a graphic and writing a story to it. How do you motivate those who just really cringe and tired, who would never do it according to their comfort zone or their persona? How do you do that? How do you help them to overcome that?
Lori Kennedy: I think that it's a really good question and it's part of a much bigger conversation. In the sense that if we go back to sort of what we started talking about, that most people didn't go into this to be an authority, to be a celebrity, to be an expert, they just wanted to help people not have IBS symptoms or whatever. Right? And so accept that in 2019 this is what's required or an element of that is what is required. And if your intention is to have impact, if your intention is to play bigger and not necessarily because you're driven by money, but if your intention is impact and you want to help as many people as humanly possible, let's just say get rid of IBS symptoms, then what you asked me is part of the bigger question of how are we going to help you to feel comfortable being a leader?
Lori Kennedy: How are we going to help you to feel comfortable holding space for hundreds or thousands or tens of thousands of people putting you on a pedestal? How are we going to help you really step into that responsibility of being the authority of being the leader, of potentially being a boss to other people. It's part of this bigger question when I know for sure when I first started, the thought of having 12 people work for me never entered my mind. The thought of having tens of thousands of clients never entered my mind.
Lori Kennedy: The thought that people would be nervous to talk to me because they're feeling a certain way never entered my mind, but that's the truth of it now and it's a responsibility that I take very seriously. That requires me to do things on my end to make sure that I'm leveling up all the time to hold the space. And so it's part of that conversation of if you're not feeling comfortable putting forth your opinions and putting out content because you're scared that Aunt Sally is going to be annoyed by the fact that you're putting out really good content on your personal Facebook page.
Lori Kennedy: If you're nervous about pissing people off, if you're nervous about what other people are going to think of you, then that's where we need to work on that. We need to address this sort of root cause of that because it's a whole bigger conversation, right? When you start having 50 people or a hundred people, clients at a time, you got to get your self in order to be able to handle that. Nevermind like thousands of people, so-
Christine: That's why I love that you do personal development as well, because I think it's impossible to become successful if you don't do that.
Lori Kennedy: ... I totally agree. Again, I think people going into it don't have the awareness that it's their responsibility to do that kind of work. Right? They only think like, "I'm so interested in smoothies, and I'm so interested in IBS," and they don't think about it. And again, this is sort of the disconnect between the educational institutions and the understanding of what it really means to run a health focused business is that if you are not doing your own work, it's almost irresponsible to even see clients because you're putting your own shit in their world and that's not fair.
Kendra Perry: Yeah. And it ends up being really tough because if you don't do the work, you just get triggered all the time. You get triggered by the trolls-
Lori Kennedy: Everything triggers you.
Kendra Perry: ... you get triggered. It brings up all your insecurities and with me it still does. It's like when I'm launching something or doing a webinar, I'm still like that high school girl who's like, "Is anyone going to come to my party? [crosstalk 00:23:59]"
Lori Kennedy: No, but it's really true and I see it in my clients from the beginning and the clients who are now doing five figures a month. The difference in the things that trigger them. I still have things that trigger me. I do the work all the time. Right? I have a therapist. I belong to ... I invest in my ... I have a therapist and I have energy people.
Christine: You do?
Lori Kennedy: I see a trainer. I do my own work. We're getting ready to host a large event where I'm the host and there is things that we're doing that have me leveling up. That is causing some inner, like, who do I think I am type of things to come out and I'm having to do the work around that because I don't want to go into the event with that mindset, because that's not in service to the people that paid me money. That's not fair to them. Right? I need to hold space for hundreds of people in a contained environment. I need for four days.
Lori Kennedy: I need to do that work. Right? And so I think being able to look yourself in the mirror and say, and honor all of those ways in which doing an Instagram Story makes you uncomfortable, posting an opinion, putting your stake in the ground like I said before. Like, if you don't do this, I think it's irresponsible. That's a pretty opinionated thing to say. It's not the opinion, but I also have worked with tens of thousands of people and I sort of have the credibility to say that and also because I do with my own work.
Lori Kennedy: But I think it's getting really honest with yourself and it's also saying, "You know what? I have work to do," and honoring the work and honoring where you need to maybe improve some things. Maybe you do lack skills, which is a genuine reason for you to feel insecure. Right? You might actually lack skills, so go acquire the skills. Right? Don't just be upset that you don't have them, just go acquire them. Right? So it's that kind of stuff. It's acknowledging why these types of things make you really uncomfortable and then going and fixing it.
Kendra Perry: Yeah. I love the twist and the turn that this conversation has taken, because it's a really important conversation. But I do want to bring things back around to launching, because I know you are the launch queen and when we were originally talking about sort of the business model that maybe people think they are going to be doing when they come to school because like you said, there is a disconnect. They don't really know that there is all this other stuff they have to learn.
Kendra Perry: So I feel like a lot of people come out of school and they think they're going to run their business like a natural path, where they just like kind of put their sign out, they open up a business and people book these one off sessions. And I know for you, you really encourage people to create programs and group things. So can you just speak a little bit more to that?
Lori Kennedy: Yeah, totally. So in my opinion, and what we've seen is having some type of methodology that you become known for, like, this is your area of expertise. We call that a signature program. All a signature program is, it's a X module, step by step methodology that delivers a result. That methodology, in and of itself, is your ticket to freedom. Because when you have a methodology that delivers a specific result, the only way that you could come up with it is by identifying your ideal client to say, "Okay, I want to work with people who have IBS and this X module methodology at the end of it they're going to get this result."
Lori Kennedy: So that your brand and your business is set up to attract those people into your world, to all of them then go through your methodology. And you would then add on levels of support. So whether that's group calls or one on one calls, where I find people get a bit confused with this whole group coaching business is they do group coaching and then they have an entirely separate one on one thing on the side, and I'm like, "No, that's not your ticket to freedom."
Lori Kennedy: When you have a launch, which is really just a promotional event, you are putting an event around enrolling people into your program. And so because you have this methodology that hopefully is automated because you're able to put dozens of people through it because you are no longer creating on the fly, you're no longer repeating yourself a million times because you have this methodology you run everybody through, you can have a promotional event, you can have an enrollment event and you can also enroll people ongoing.
Lori Kennedy: And so launching in and of itself is one of the strategies that you would use to grow your business, because if you only ever launched, you'd only be enrolling clients two, three times a year. Well, I don't know about you, but I like to make money every day and I like to have impact every day. And so I don't want to be reliant only on launching two or three times a year because what happens if one of them flops or Facebook shuts off your ads, which had like ... You don't want to put all your eggs in one basket.
Lori Kennedy: And so I love launching, I think that they're great. I totally think that they still work. A lot of people are like, "Oh, launches are dead." They're just different. It's just different now. The way that you have to go about them is a little bit different than you did in 2015, for example, or even 2017. But the whole idea is to have this mainstay of your business, right? And the mainstay is this methodology by which you deliver a specific result. It's what you become known for, it's what makes you the expert, otherwise you're just bopping all around, helping anyone and everyone, and that's not a way to grow business.
Kendra Perry: Great. Yeah, and I like what you said. So you mentioned people who have ... They're like, this is the group coaching and this is the one on one, but you're saying that people should combine it. And what you mean by that is maybe like running people through a group and then they upgrade to become a one on one client or just having a one on one client thing and you put everyone through some sort of methodology. Is that what you mean by that?
Lori Kennedy: Kind of. I think it's definitely a paradigm shift. You can do it any way you want. Right? I think it's just understanding what your goals are. So if you have a group program, what that means is people start and stop on specific days. So the group cohort would start on September 15th and end on November 15th, but that means that people who see you, who contact you in October, they would then have to wait until February, let's just say. Well, that kind of sucks for everybody. So you can have groups, but because you have this methodology, you're also able to enroll people all the time.
Lori Kennedy: So the way that I teach it is think about the methodology and its own self contained container, right? So the methodology is the methodology, it's your 12 module program, let's just say. And if you wanted to run that as a group, you could. You could also simultaneously have people enrolling into it all the time, in which case you could then offer weekly group calls. And it doesn't matter when anybody ... If they're all at different points in the program, it doesn't matter.
Lori Kennedy: You could then offer an additional level of support, which would be one on one calls. Right? It's like when you go to ... I go to this place called BodyBlitz downtown, it's like waters and it's amazing. And so they have like the base, which is the waters, right? You go in the water and you go to the sauna and you do the whole thing, right? It's like the ... What's it called when you go around? I can't remember.
Kendra Perry: Like a circuit or something.
Lori Kennedy: A circuit, thank you. It's like a circuit. But then you can add on a massage and you can add on to this and you could add on different levels of small packages. It's the same thing. It's kind of like that for the program. You have your base methodology and then you could add on group calls and you could add on one on one supports so that anyone can start at any time, so that you're constantly enrolling people. And then during the hot times of the year, January, September, the spring, you could launch and do a group.
Kendra Perry: Right. I see what you're saying.
Lori Kennedy: Right? So-
Kendra Perry: Yeah. You're promoting this evergreen model where people are just-
Lori Kennedy: ... Yes.
Kendra Perry: ... Because yeah, I totally agree with you. Having a big launch three times a year is nice. You can make a bunch of money, but yeah. I mean yeah, Facebook ads getting shut off or like so many things could happen that could make it unsuccessful and then you're screwed for the next six months.
Lori Kennedy: Exactly. Right? So being able to run your business that way allows you to also scale it.
Kendra Perry: Yeah.
Christine: So I have a question for you. When do you think is a good time to start your first group program? Because I just talked to someone that I signed up as a mentee and she was basically told to immediately start with a group program because it does have so many advantages, you don't need to ... It's much less time for you, obviously lots is automated, you just do the group calls.
Christine: However, till she started her business she hasn't had a single private client yet. I was like, "Well, it's going to be difficult to fill your group program, and if you have your group calls and there is nobody there or just one person they might wonder where's the rest of the bunch?" Right? So when do you consider a good point to start a group program?
Lori Kennedy: So this again goes back to having a group or running it one on one is a tactic. So the way that I teach people is let's build your methodology, right? And Beta test the methodology. So if you have a 12 module system, right? You're getting rid of IBS symptoms, you're not custom making that program to each individual person. You're thinking, "Okay, what are the fundamentals that my ideal client, a person who has X, Y, and Z symptoms, what are the fundamentals that they need to learn and do in order to get an X result?"
Lori Kennedy: And to the way that we teach it is I want you to create the methodology and I want you to Beta test it. If you want to have five of your friends start the Beta test at the same time, great. A group, right? If you want to run seven people through it independently, one on one, great. Either way, we have an ethical responsibility as the practitioners to test our methodology before we do anything. Right? And so whether you're starting with one on one or a group to me is irrelevant, I want to know that what you're doing is quality.
Lori Kennedy: I think people have this idea that they need to start with a group or start one to one. No, you need to put X number of people through a Beta test. Then you can say, "Okay, now that my hypothesis is Beta tested," right? "Now that I've had seven people go through it," whether they started at the same time or not is irrelevant. You can then go, "Okay, I feel super confident about the program I'm going to run because I got all this feedback, I've taken time to fix it. I've taken time to go through it."
Lori Kennedy: And then if they wanted to run a group, they would have had testimonials, because they've run a Beta test, right? If they wanted to start with a group of let's say five people, they could. If they wanted to do it one on one, they could, but it's wrapped around putting people through a methodology. Right? So when people say like, "I don't have any client experience," because people in our program say that they come in because they don't have it. I'm like, "You don't need it. Go create your methodology and Beta. Go put it through a Beta test. That's your experience. That's your first five clients. That's your first 10 clients."
Lori Kennedy: We recommend in the Wellness Business Academy that you Beta test with minimum five people. Right? So after you've done that, then you can say, "Okay, what's the model that I'm going to use to facilitate this program?" The model would be either running it as a group or enrolling clients on a one on one basis, but regardless, everybody goes through that methodology because it's the ticket to freedom so that you're not constantly creating different things for different people when everybody needs the fundamentals anyway.
Christine: Yeah. I mean, that's genius. I love the idea of Beta testing. I've done it quite a few times because, yeah, you're not going to hit the nail on the head the first time, especially when you're brand new and by doing that you can actually like get feedback from your people and figure out what are they missing? Maybe something you didn't even think about, you're like, "Oh, they really need this and so I should be offering that." It's almost like this co-creation sort of thing. Your ideal clients and your expertise, which I think is super intelligent.
Lori Kennedy: And I think for those people too, who don't have client experience, it alleviates so much pressure of needing the program to be perfect. Right? When we teach people to be like, "Don't worry, it's going to suck. That's why your Beta testing." You need the people to give you all the feedback, otherwise you spend a year in perfectionistic syndrome being like, "I don't know," and you're all nervous because you have no frame of reference whether it's going to work or not. Well, of course. So having that Beta test, having sort of that ... Letting even the clients off the hook, people charge for the Beta or they don't charge, to me it's irrelevant. I don't care.
Lori Kennedy: I just want you to do it. I want you to go through the experience to get the feedback, to see how your overwhelming or how you're underwhelming your clients so that you can make it better, which you will probably iterate the program three or four times in the first year before you even feel like super good, but you can go out and scale. I think people come out of school and do their first year and they're like, "I'm not at six figures yet. Why?" And I'm like, "Because that's not how it works. You're still working at the case- "
Kendra Perry: Yeah, you can't build a business in 90 days.
Lori Kennedy: ... Like, "Hello, you're still working at the case." Right?
Christine: Well, I pay for that.
Kendra Perry: Yeah, it's a really important conversation because I see a lot of coaches doing this where they spend six months to a year creating this program and spending all this money and time to make this perfect program, and they go to sell it and it doesn't sell or people take it and it doesn't work and then it's really frustrating. Right? It's really disheartening. I've actually been guilty that I did that with my first online program ever. I did all the wrong things.
Lori Kennedy: It's really upsetting. And part of that is because they just don't have the experience and the skillset creating a program. The program in and of itself isn't what sells the program. People come, even in my world too, they're like, "I tried to launch this thing and it didn't work, maybe I need to go and recreate the program." I'm like, "No, you need to learn how to sell."
Lori Kennedy: How would you know that the program sucks if you didn't have anybody go through it? That doesn't make any sense to me. It's not the program that sells the program, it's your ability to identify the person's pain and connect the program to that pain and to be able to say, "Here is how this is going to help you when nothing else has in the past." It's the ability to know how to use that language.
Kendra Perry: Yeah, and I feel that people, yeah, they get into business and instead of updating their business knowledge like, "Oh, I need another health certification or I should go to that school. I need to upgrade, take that course." And they just keep piling up these courses when really they actually ... You're right, they need to learn how to sell. They need to read a book on direct response copywriting, which everyone should if you take anything from this episode.
Lori Kennedy: Yeah. And I think the reason that they don't is because that's not what they signed up for.
Kendra Perry: Exactly.
Lori Kennedy: And rightfully so, none of us signed up for that. Except that's what's required.
Kendra Perry: It's a slap in the face, isn't it?
Christine: So for those of you who are listening and who are like, "Crap." I'm super proud because I know well, my smoothie represent recipes and I just finished all my blog posts. You just want to cry, don't, as you know we provide solutions. So Lori tell us a little bit about, you were afraid that you teach all of this. Walk us through that. I read the two quizzes or the two programs, the two main programs that you have. So tell us a little bit about those.
Lori Kennedy: Yeah. So the Wellness Business Academy is for you, if you don't yet have a signature program, if you've not created one, if you've not Beta tested it, if you've not created it in an automated scalable way. So before we can grow a business, we need something to use to grow it with and that would be your signature program. And so once that's done, then we move you into the 10K Success System, which is really about scaling, right? It's about getting that five figure a month revenue. It's about working on a lot of this mindset stuff to be able to show up as an authority, show up as a leader. It's paid traffic. It's a lot of those next level things that come after having the foundation, which is your signature program and the Beta test.
Christine: Love it. Yeah, absolutely love it. So where can people buy?
Lori Kennedy: We have an application process, specifically for the 10K Success System because it's not right for everybody, and we want to ... We protect our clients very much, we protect the culture that we're building inside of that community. I think the best place to go honestly would be my Instagram. I think there is ... If you go to my Instagram, which is at Lori Kennedy Inc, I'm sure you'll link to it in your show notes.
Christine: We will.
Lori Kennedy: In my bio there is an opportunity for you to schedule a brainstorming call with our success coaches. So it's a free call, it's a brainstorming call. If they feel like you're a good fit for other one, they'll let you know at the end of the call. And if that's something that you want to discuss, you can, otherwise, it's just really helpful to get on a call with our coaches so that you can see the gaps and where you need to improve. I think a lot of people have a hard time because they're not even sure where the gaps are in their skills. They just know that they're not gaining the momentum and attraction that they want.
Lori Kennedy: And so our priority and our responsibility is first and foremost before we even introduce you to anything, is to really help you to see where the breakdowns are so that ... Our solutions may or may not be right for you. And if they are, we'll obviously tell you. But I think either way it's so important to have people in your life to help you gain that clarity, to be able to understand ... It's the reason that I just joined another mastermind because we are growing, and I don't know what's going to break.
Lori Kennedy: And I know enough now to know that there is other people out there that can tell me. I don't want to ... if I can avoid the break, I'm going to pay for that. I'm going to pay a lot of money for someone to be able to say to me, "When you hit X, this is what will likely happen. So let's navigate against that now." I want that, right? So that's part of what we do, is if you want to get to five figures, here is what we need to have in place, otherwise you will want to quit because you will be tired. Right?
Kendra Perry: So for now it's awesome.
Lori Kennedy: Yeah.
Kendra Perry: Yeah. I love how much you're infusing the mindset stuff into it because it's so important and it's definitely something that I never knew. I didn't know I was going to have to like figure my shit out to be able to run a business. Like, it's crazy. Like I'm like ... I mean, it's amazing because I think it's made me a better human and I've learned so much about myself, but yeah, you really got to like figure your shit out.
Lori Kennedy: It's a super confronting.
Christine: It's tough but you're a better person for it, always. But you can never go back though people, so if you don't want to know ...
Lori Kennedy: You never go back.
Christine: You never go back.
Lori Kennedy: And it may be slightly hard to live in the world when you [inaudible 00:45:35]
Lori Kennedy: It makes it hard to be amongst the people. But then you find your own people and you're good.
Kendra Perry: Exactly. You find your little crowd, which is much more genuine and more intense than anything, but yeah, a lot of people were just like, "Gosh, I will be fine." That's why I found you Christine, just so I can box you all day long. You're my therapist. Awesome. Well, thank you so much Lori. There was so many good gems in this, we really appreciate you being-
Lori Kennedy: Yeah, thank you. This is great.
Kendra Perry: ... on interview with us. So definitely check out Lori at Lori Kennedy Inc on Instagram. I follow you. I love following you, you have really good info there, great stories, so you guys should all follow her. And guys, if you love this episode, you got to let us know. Go to iTunes or wherever. I think you can leave a review on Spotify too, I don't even know. But go to iTunes, leave us a five star review and just let us know that you love this content so that we can keep putting it out there for you. That is the number one way you can support us and it only takes two minutes, probably not even.
Christine: Yeah, and feel free to follow us on Instagram, 360 Health Biz Podcast, and also to send us messages. Like, if you have any requests or anything you want us to talk about, you know we're a game for everything, just-
Kendra Perry: We're a game.
Christine: ... We will do that, so we're totally open for requests.
Kendra Perry: Awesome. Thanks guys. So we'll see you guys again in two weeks.
Lori Kennedy: Yeah.
Kendra Perry: Take care.