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How to go from 1:1 to group coaching successfully featuring Nagina Abdullah

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How to go from 1:1 to group coaching successfully. . . and the perfect pineapple 🍍 !


Nagina Abdullah is a health coach for ambitious women and founder of the website MasalaBody.com. She teaches women how to eat delicious food to lose weight and skyrocket energy. She has taught hundreds of women how to lose up to 70 pounds. Nagina has been featured in Business Insider, People.com, Huffington Post and on Fox News.


Christine Hansen:    Hello everyone and welcome to the 360 Health Biz Podcast. Today we are live on our facebook page 360 Health Biz Podcast and we are here with a fabulous guest and friend of mine, Nagina Sethi Abdullah. We're going to talk about continuous education and business.

Nagina, thank you so much for joining us. I'm super excited that you are here, and I think we'll just start off with what you do and what is super important, how you got into it.

Nagina Abdullah:      I'm so excited to be here. I am a health coach for ambitious women and the way that I started is not that I had a background in nutrition or weight loss, but I actually personally lost 40 pounds after trying and struggling my whole life to lose weight and be healthy. I had tried every single thing out there and then I started trying something that was kind of new, things that I hadn't done before and it worked like a magic bullet. I started adding protein, I started lowering my sugar and I just started feeling full, using slower carbs instead of fast burning carbs and I lost 10 pounds in the first month and then I went on to lose 40 pounds in nine months. It was life changing, transformational. It actually happened after I had two kids and while I was working in a demanding job, working over 60 hours a week and traveling all over the place.

For me to drop 40 pounds after being a mom, when I had this preconceived notion that after I was a mom, I would just keep the weight on and maybe gain more, just because that's what I knew from around me, was really, really a surprise. Everyone started asking me how I lost the weight. They told me that they couldn't believe I just had kids. By my daughter's first birthday party, I had dropped 40 pounds. I got to 20 pounds below my pre-pregnancy weight. I started sharing what I was doing with everyone around me. But what I started learning, when I was telling them what I did, interestingly enough, nobody actually listened to my advice. So, I would tell people and they were like, how did you lose that weight? What did you do? I would tell them what I did, and it was like their mind would go blank. They would say, well, I can't do that. I need to eat, I need to eat this kind of carbs and I need to eat my dessert or I just can't do that. And so, I was like, well, you asked me how to do it and this is it.

You do have to make some changes. I started learning about the psychology of teaching people to change their behavior. And it's not as easy as telling people do this or do that; because it'll give you lower calories or whatever. It's not about the facts. It's actually about appealing to people emotionally and connecting to their stories. I learned about that psychology and since so many people were asking me, I decided to start a blog and start writing to people and practicing how I was teaching people to change their behavior, while giving out the recipes people had been asking me for; just sharing tips and tricks. I started a blog masalabody.com, which is still my blog and I also thought it would be a really great way for me to start building something on the side of my full time business.

It really came to fruition after I became a mom and while I was working 60-hour weeks, but I didn't know if I can keep doing that forever. I didn't know if I wanted to do that when my kids were 5, 10 and 15. So I started to explorer if there are any other things out there and I realized, if you have a skill or if you know something that other people want; you can monetize that skill.

That is why I started with the fact that I didn't have a nutrition education, but I did teach myself a lot of information. I experimented on myself. I got results on myself and then I started my blog and we can talk more about how I actually started getting 1:1 clients and teaching them and creating a system that now works for hundreds of women.

Christine Hansen:    There are two huge things straight off the bat. The first one, you didn't have the typical three gazillion health coach diplomas or certificates as many people have and they still don't feel equipped enough and secondly you talked about it. I think those are two massive points that a lot of people struggle with. Even if you tell them; well, did you ever post something on your personal facebook page that you actually do this? So I think there are two huge points there.

Kendra Perry:           Yeah and I think it's interesting, because I feel that, the lack of education, is the reason why people don't put themselves out there. They're like, 'oh well, I'll do it once I get this other certification or this degree or this or that', but in the end everyone's an expert in something and we can all teach something to somebody else and really that's all you need to be able to do. Put your services out there and help people. So I think that's awesome that you just went for it.

It's not about the facts. It's actually about appealing to people emotionally and connecting to their stories. #360healthbizpodcast #healthbusiness #healthcoach

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Christine Hansen:     Exactly. I think with weight loss people saw it, so you have proof straight away. Did you ever feel, 'oh, maybe...' this typical impostor syndrome of 'who am I to actually share this without having a degree?' You did it the other way around, you did your research later. At any point, did you have these voices that so many people have?

Nagina Abdullah:    Absolutely. I really did have it. The voice that came from me is that I had done it, but I didn't know if it would work for other people. So that's the first thing. I didn't know if other people would get the same results as I did. And second, I didn't want to come off like I was bragging or pushing myself up, because I had achieved something. A lot of times if you achieve something, if you talk about it, people don't always support you. Either there's jealousy involved or they just think that you did something, that was because of your body or your genetics or something that you got naturally and they just don't actually give you the credit for it.

I just didn't really want to put myself out there. I didn't share on facebook. It was a major fear of mine to share on facebook right away, because that's where all my friends were. I didn't want to be like, 'oh, I lost 40 pounds. Look at me now. Oh, I'm so good.' I didn't want to act like that. What I did to get over this and I think it's really key, because I don't think I could've done it myself, is that I actually took a course in how to create an online business. I just followed the rules and this is what you do and if you want to be successful in online business, just do this. For me it took the emotion out of all of the me feeling I was bragging or me feeling why would it work for anyone? I said, look, I've seen other people build successful online businesses and I think I can do it too. If they can do it, I can do it!

A quick story about my first website, that really speaks to what we're talking about right here. This initial fear of putting yourself out there. When I started my first version of my website, it had a picture of healthy food on it and it had garbanzo beans that were really delicious. A lot of the food that I ate to lose weight, was really delicious and it had flavorful spices. I never thought I was depriving myself, when I was losing weight. To me that was the biggest part of my weight loss. I loved what I was eating. So I put up a picture of these garbanzo beans and in my training course I got feedback that, yes, the garbanzo beans are exciting for you, but really people are not desiring spicy garbanzo beans! They’re really desire is to lose weight. So put a picture of yourself on the front of your website.

That was very, very difficult for me to do, because like I said, I didn't want to act like I was bragging and that I thought I knew everything. But then it was just no emotion, this is what you do to be successful. So, I did it and the first day after I did that, I then posted my website on facebook and I said I started a website to teach you how I lost 40 pounds and to give you all the recipes I used. Click here to subscribe. The first day I got like 50 subscribers from facebook and then in the first week I got 101 subscribers. It was because I positioned myself right and I appealed to my burning pains and I put my fears back and I served other people. Other people, who actually wanted to lose weight, they wanted the tips and they want someone to help them. If I have that, why don't I share it? Why do I have to keep it inside; because I'm scared of people thinking something about me?! I'm just going to stop myself, not only my own success, but other people's success as well.

Christine Hansen:That's a huge sentence! And two main points here: I love that you said I just took a course and it took the emotion out of it. Love it! I think you can probably take all kinds of different courses, but you may share which one you took, of course. That's a huge one. Also the photo thing. When you go somewhere, I think it's so important that people see you. Especially as we are in a service based industry, where people buy from us and if you have food there or just a landscape, they need to know who you are. They need to look you in the eye as much as it's digitally possible.

Kendra Perry:       I think those before and after photos are just showing this is where I am now. So much of, I love the Garbanzo bean thing, that just made me laugh! When you first said it, I was like, 'oh yeah, garbanzo beans... I don't know about those!' People need to connect with you and they need to see that you've done it and then you need to make it about them and show them that 'yeah, you can do it too and this is how you do it.' So it's finding that fine balance between sharing yourself, without oversharing and still making it about them and serving them and showing them how you can help them.

Nagina Abdullah:  Exactly! One of the things I actually always use and I found is the most powerful thing in growing a business and getting clients and getting more people, is really sharing your story vs. saying eat more protein and eat less sugar, because it keeps you more full and it regulates your insulin. That does not connect, but it's the facts! It's actually right. But, when you say things like, I struggled my entire life to lose weight and then I found something that helped me and it just knocked the weight off, without me even trying that hard and I felt so energetic and so lively and so youthful and I just never thought I'd find it, but I did. I mean I'll tell more detail about my story and all the struggles and the things I can do now that I could never do before. Those are the things that people really resonate with and that is more powerful than the facts and the nutrition.

I do teach the nutrition, but people don't really need to know all that information upfront. They just want to know your story and what to do.

Christine Hansen:    Yes, what to do. Give them a task. Give them the recipe. They don't care whether it's because of protein or less sugar. It's going to work, I'll just do what she said; like you did with the online course. People just do what you said with your protocol. Now you also put a really, really amazing spin on it though, right? Instead of having just another weight loss program, you focused on your spices. Was that something that came because you just started to add spices or was that some research that you did? I believe spices are your main program? 'Spice yourself skinny’.

Was that something that you found and said, 'uh actually this is unique'! Because you probably didn't start out with the idea that spices would be a hook.

Nagina Abdullah:   That's a great question and it is something that is really niche about what I do and that separates me from other people in the health industry. It is really key to find what your spin is. What is your thing?

In the beginning my spin was busy, ambitious women and I still do serve mainly ambitious women. But I also have an added elements for my online program, which is spices. The way that I found this, is actually part of growing my business. When you take some steps, it leads you to more things. The way I grew my business in the beginning and got people to know about my website, was that I did a lot of guests posts.

I wrote articles for other blogs and other news sites. From the smallest to the biggest, it didn't matter. Whoever would accept me, I would write for them, just to get my name out there. I wrote an article for a major health website (Mind body green) and it took me seven times to get published there.

Christine Hansen:    You need to count at least seven times to get published. I'm at number 3 and then I just gave up and got in through an interview with one of their writers.

Nagina Abdullah:     You need to keep going. You can do it! So I sent them seven articles. Not only did they not publish my article, but I didn't even hear back from them. They just made a thing that said we received your article, but I never heard anything.

But one of my first articles that got published from them, was called 'These 5 spices helped me lose 40 pounds'. It was just something that I wrote. I had written six other titles and other articles and you actually have to write the whole article for them. You don't just write a pitch. I wrote six whole articles, none of them got accepted. This one got accepted, but not only did it get accepted; once it was published, I got 1500 subscribers from them.

Christine Hansen:    And that's not an easy feat, let me tell you! Having posted on tons of sites, getting even one subscriber for an article is not bad. So getting that many is just amazing!

Nagina Abdullah:     It was like the holidays. I felt like, 'oh my God, what else could I want?' I just saw all my numbers going up, up, up, up, up. I couldn't believe it. That was the first hint that there was something about spices. I didn't even know it at that time, because I was publishing so many different things. I went on to talk to a network with different media people and people still always asked me about my spices. They said, can you come on and do a segment on spices? Can you show us some dishes with spices?

It was something that had been so normal to me that it didn't stand out to me. I grew up with spices and it was just the way I ate. To me what was more exciting, was that I was adding more protein and taking out sugar. That was really interesting to me; but that's not what the world was thinking that was exciting.

When I was ready to create my first program, I was looking at all that feedback; at what my guest posts made popular. What's the media that I've gotten? What are people liking out there? It wasn't only about what I think, it was also about what the world was responding to. So it was both of these things. You have to see what people are willing to pay for and they were.

For my first launch, I had been growing my list, I had actually around 5,000 people on my list. My goal was to have 5,000 people on my list, before I launch my first group program. I had a $20,000 launch in that first time, with 'spice yourself skinny'. I had tried other things before that, that hadn't sold as well. So it was really this spin on this thing that was appealing to people I had tested in different methods.

Kendra Perry:         And that's so important. We're interested in what we're interested in; but you have to ask your audience what they want and it's a really smart way to go about it. In the end what you think is interesting, like you said, the carbs and the sugar wasn't appealing to other people, but the spices is awesome! I love that because I think you can take any boring healthy meal and make it amazing, if you just use the right spice combinations. I think people think healthy eating is so complicated, but I always talk about how you could make a bomber meal in 15 minutes and you can change it constantly with the same ingredients, you just need to know the spices. So I think that's super awesome!

Christine Hansen:    And it works! I'll do a live testimonial: I lost 10 kg / 20 pounds few years ago. I need to do it again. Especially after the summer! My mom was like ‘oh, you're pregnant again!'

Nagina Abdullah:      Christine was a star spice yourself student!

Christine Hansen:   So I need to do it again. I will do my pre-pictures later today, big time! It works and was so good. I did it together with my husband and I still use a lot of philosophy from that for my clients actually. Just telling them about spices, because I think especially in Europe, a lot of us don't use that many spices. So that is also something culturally that you can bring from your background to a society, that's just not as used to spicing things until you use them. So that's fantastic.

So let's talk a little bit about after you went public. You have more and more people interested, you started to work with people 1:1, I believe. When was the time when you thought group programs, what is it? How can I do it? Any best takeaways? Or maybe things you said that didn't work as well. What would be your key takeaways when you have a newbie listening, that has some traction and is maybe thinking group program is my next million. What would you tell them?

Nagina Abdullah:   Okay. Well I actually wanted to create a system. I wanted to create a technique for people and if you start by teaching 10 people or 20 people or more, you will see that everyone is different. It's a lot to understand all at once.

I started with 1:1 coaching. I had a technique that worked, it worked for me. But now I needed to teach other people and when I did 1:1 coaching, it helped me understand the nuances of different personalities, different lifestyles and different food preferences. I could respond to that in a 1:1 way and I didn't have to create a lot of resources ahead of time. I didn't really know what to create. I created along the way for that one person. With my next client I was able to understand the differences.

So really going through 1:1 coaching was a way for me to learn about my market and get paid for it. Get paid highly for it, because when you're doing 1:1 work, you can charge a lot more, than when you're doing a group program. So it's basically p x q; price x quantity = revenue.

If you have a small quantity of people, if you're just starting your list, you can charge a higher price because you're giving that 1:1 customized service and people will pay for it. Then once you start getting more people, you can lower your price because you're not giving all that 1:1 customized service, but you can scale much easier.

My plan was that I wanted to have 1:1 clients and grow my email list, while I was having 1:1 clients, so that I could learn about my clientele, learn about what they like and what they don't like. Meanwhile, I was creating a system and I didn't even realize it. I was seeing what was working. What worked for my clients was menu plans, because my women are very busy and ambitious. Telling them exactly what to buy at the grocery store, telling them what to eat, when they go out and then some mindset work and some kind of other motivational support.

I kept building my list. I had my number at 5,000, like I mentioned before. So right before I got to 5,000, I started crafting ideas for an online program. When I sold it, I sold it at a much lower price than I was doing for my 1:1 work. I had much, much bigger numbers. Also, before I moved onto my group program, I wanted to really get good at selling 1:1 services, because I didn't want to skip anything. I didn't want to say, okay, I know how to get a couple of clients. I actually wanted to create a system. So, I created a system of having $10,000 - $15,000 months with 1:1 clients for weight loss and it took me time to get there.

The first year I was able to get a client here, a client there; and then the next year I started getting more, but I wasn't able to have those consistent months and I really wanted to be able to know and train myself to get really good at one thing, before skipping over and getting to the next thing.

So, now I know how to sell 1:1 coaching and if I ever needed to, I could go back to it, but I'm not planning to. I do take on some clients once in a while, but now it's all about scaling. Now I'm doing the same thing with online programs. I have a program that sells, but now it's like how do I get it to scale and keep repeating what do I do to grow this online business in a scale-able way, where it's not all of my time involved all the time.

Christine Hansen:     I love it, especially if you ever find out, please tell us!

Kendra Perry:      I think that's awesome, because you can reach so much more people with a group program and you can scale. When you start out, it is really good to be doing the 1:1 clients, so you can learn; you can see what people want, you can see the questions that people are asking. But at some point it can get really draining. It can get exhausting. So when you move to more of a group program, you can reach more people, help more people and it may take some the pressure off a little bit from 1:1 clients.

Christine Hansen:Also, I think what is super important about your program, is that everything's there, but it's not unnecessary fancy schmancy. You get your pdfs, you probably had help to design all of them, so that you didn't have to do everything on your own. You have a super engaged facebook group and that's pretty much it. There is no over the top kind of app or anything like that. It's really straightforward, which I really liked as well. Did you have any help doing that? What would you recommend people to maybe think about or maybe avoid, even though it's trend?

Nagina Abdullah:     I love that question. That is such a great point that you're bringing out. We look at other courses and other things online and it looks so fancy. It looks so perfect and there are professional studios and cooking studios and workout studios and you really don't have to do that. I am a big case for that. What people really want is the technique. If you have more of a connection with them or you're giving them what they want, that's all they care about. The fanciness can come later. The people you see online, they have been in the game, they didn't just start like that. You can go back and look at their first stuff and it was not like that. Everyone perfects over time. It's like that saying: 'Don't act like you're 40, when you're not 40.' Just act like you're a beginner. Act like you are starting out.

I do have a VA that works for me part time and so I would create the recipes, a menu plan, groceries and she would then put it together. She would do the formatting and put it nicely together. I'm not good at that stuff anyway, so I outsource that and that really helped me. What is amazing about a group program and when I say group program, this is all online. I didn't have any phone calls. I did have a facebook group, where I was in and once a week I sent out a meal plan and a guideline and resources for the week. That was only a pdf. But the best thing is it's repeatable.

So I have launched 'spice yourself skinny' seven times and it's not like doing it all over again. I did make it better and better every time. I perfected the recipes, I added vegetarian and vegan restaurant. But it was over the course of seven launches. Now I have a program that I feel is amazing, because I just spent time to improve it vs. having to do it one off every time.

That's one key thing and the other thing is, I actually created a new program recently, which is called 'tiny changes, big weight loss' and this is a video-based program. I did it based on a lot of other programs, I've been seeing, but they're all in these professional studios. If you get my program, it's the opposite of professional studio. I am on my zoom camera giving really structured advice, but it's from a zoom camera, from my computer. Then I also did a module on 'how to eat while you're traveling to lose weight'. I show people how to eat on the airplane, airport and in restaurants. I brought my iPhone on the airplane and filmed myself, while people where around me and people love it. People are like, 'oh my God, nobody has done that!'

So it's not about the fanciness, it's just about doing it and giving people information they want to know and it the format doesn’t matter, especially in the beginning stages.

Kendra Perry:       I love that.

Christine Hansen:    I love it. I totally do to. It resonates 100 gazillion times. I know people, who don't make money, that rent a villa for a day, that costs them a couple of grant, just to film there and it's just like you don't have the basis yet, you don't have the list and it's not like anyone is just going to come because you're invested in it and that's not how it works, you know? So I really love this. It's a really nice getting down to earth kind of talk.

Kendra Perry:    It's so true. The first few times you launch something, it may not be a success. More than likely, it's not going to be a success. In my first launch I lost money. I learned a ton and I made it better. So you shouldn't really be investing everything you have, to make this perfect thing, that may not even do well and you may find out that you need to change over time or maybe go a totally different direction. I also think people like that non-curated stuff. I think people are sick of the perfect person with the perfect body, the perfect pineapple or whatever. They just want to see you! Who you are. Pineapple... On the airplane just talking about really good content. It's about the content and not the look. I don't know where the pineapple came from!!

Nagina Abdullah:   Sounds good though. The perfect pineapple!

Christine Hansen:  You better get the website, theperfectpineapple.com

Nagina Abdullah:Yes. It's absolutely true. People don't want that. They don't need the perfect thing. Also what you're saying about improvement is so key. Instead of looking at your first launch of something or you're first putting yourself out there as, this is what it is, this is the end. Instead looking at it as this is the first step for me to improve on and get better and better. It's a whole shift in mindset that actually I think drives success, because it's so important to know that you're on a journey. You're not just going to reach there right away and that you are going to fail along the way and that's part of the journey. So plan to fail.

Christine Hansen:  Yeah, I totally agree, and I just really advise people also to be aware of their budget. I just recently had a launch for my DIY program and I allocated a budget of $200 for facebook ads. I didn't use anything else. That was basically my whole budget and it converted really well. I made four times the revenue. So, it was $800, which is totally fine with me, because I was just testing this baby out. Seeing if there is any interest, if it is working. $200 I can live with if it didn't, but I did a really great return on my investment. So now if you had invested that much more, it would work. Now I can tweak it and relaunch with a new budget and take the first in a return of investment and reinvest that to make bigger ones. So be really cautious about this, because the big guys play with huge budgets that you cannot compare with in the beginning. You will at some point. But I think that launches can seem so enticing and if you want to make it perfect, you would have to get 10 different audiences with five different ad sets, which then all cost you $5, but then it just cueing to this huge thing. So I would really say be smart about this and make sure that you start small and just test if it's working. We talked about this last time. You don't know what you don't know and you might think, you know, but actually you don't.

Nagina Abdullah:  That is very true. A lot of times if you start with 1:1 coaching, you're actually making money. Then you can reinvest cash that you made from your business, instead of taking money from something else. You're actually making money and you're investing in your business. You can make money faster and then invest it to grow your business, when you're doing 1:1 coaching, as a way to learn and also to create some capital.

Christine Hansen:  And I would absolutely say, as you did, take the resources that you created for your 1:1 clients, anonymize them and use them for your program. It's not work. You have the resources already. You might need to free them up a little bit. You need to take out names and stuff, but it's the same stuff. So the more clients you have, the more resources you have to put into your program in the end. So it's never a waste of time or work.

Kendra Perry:   And pay attention to what your people are asking you. Every time someone asks me a question, I write that question down, somewhere in a little document. You can do a post it. Just pay attention to the questions that you're getting asked over and over and over again, because that's a great content for a group program. See what people are really confused about. What people are always asking me. So that should be in the program.

Nagina Abdullah:   So true. When you're doing 1:1 client work or if you even have your first version of an online or group program, that are exactly the things I realized how I changed and improved my materials. So many people were asking me for vegan and vegetarian menus and I tried to just put it into what I had, but then so many people were asking me, so I was like, I have to actually create a whole new version and that informed the direction of where I was going. That's just one example. It happens all the time. Keep listening to your audience and adding. Maybe sometimes it's like a whole different product that you get an idea for it because it was asked about.

Christine Hansen:   So what's in store for you for the future? Is there going to be an 8th, a 9th and 10th launch? Anything new on the horizon? You have your new program, is that available yet? Tell us all!

Nagina Abdullah:   Yeah. So I'm excited to talk about what's next. I will be relaunching 'spice yourself skinny' next year. I was relaunching it every three months, but now I'm going to be launching it once a year only and I have another program, which I have started, I've launched it once and now I'm going into it again in September. It is called 'tiny changes, big weight loss' and it's about how to make changes that are not overwhelming, but that are sustainable. How to be able to eat at home, as well as be a woman of the world and be able to travel and work wherever you need to work, while still maintaining what you're eating and loving it. So that's a video-based course.

So that's what I'm working on. Then I have something really exciting coming up. I don't know the timeline yet, but it's going to be something pretty different than what I've worked on before. This is because I'm just working on growing my product suite. Now that I have tested out how to create my first product, I'm just doing more products now. But then the one after this, is going to be around getting more energy. Really how to get more energy. There may be some exercise and sleep related information in it. Getting more energy vs weight loss. But now it's also the energy. Those are two real motivators for busy, ambitious women. How do we accomplish both of those?

Christine Hansen:Or how to lose weight without actually being exhausted doing so. Because weight loss, it's just, 'Oh my God, it's going to be some tedious'. It is a really smart move. I'm super, super excited about this.

So your website is masalabody.com. You also have a free gift, which we're going to include in the links on our website 360healthbizpodcast.com. You can serve by and look at the episodes and you will find ours with Nagina. Anything I forgot Kendra?

Kendra Perry:        I think we've got everything. Also, we would like to let people know about our patron page. If you guys want to support our mission and help us continue to bring great podcasts to you a couple times a month, you can support us on Patron. Even for as little as $1 a month. It doesn't have to be a lot, but we would appreciate literally anything.

If you like our podcast, leave us a review on iTunes. We would love to hear your feedback and if you leave us a review, we'll read it on air. We would very much appreciate that. It just helps us get this information out there and help us help more people, just like you.

Christine Hansen:   And make money while making other people healthy. Isn't that amazing? Nagina, thank you so much for being here and for being so honest and just telling us the way that you build this stuff and sharing this. I'm super, super, super grateful. Thank you so much.

Nagina Abdullah:   Thank you for having me. I loved talking with both of you.

Christine Hansen:  Good. Well, we're going to record again in two weeks. You're going to catch us live on facebook, same time, same place and then if you miss it, you can see it afterwards on our facebook page or you can listen to us on iTunes and spotify... I don't even know where else.

Kendra Perry:      You can find us pretty much anywhere you listen to your podcasts.

Christine Hansen:  All right. Well thank you so much. That's it for this week. Have a great day!

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To niche or not to niche

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To niche or not to niche

Christine:        Alright everyone! Welcome to this episode and we're going to talk about 'to niche or not to niche', which is an interesting topic, because Kendra and I have two very different businesses. One of us is very niche and one of us is less niche. So we're going to talk about exactly what our experiences have been and what we would tell a friend of ours, if they were interested in our opinion.

Kendra:           I hope everyone is interested in our opinion and I think this is a really, really great topic, because I think when you're starting a business, it's overwhelming. You're like, I need to get clients, I need to make money, but everyone's telling you that you need to focus and you need to niche down. You need to be more specific with whom you're talking to and I think that can feel a bit overwhelming. You might be afraid to turn people away and maybe you just don't even know who you want to be talking to.

Christine:        Yes, most courses are very general too, so unless you know exactly what you focus on, you're going to take a general view or most of us have a general background in health and then suddenly, it's just what we find most interesting or what we think is the most popular and you might be wrong. So, I think the biggest permission we can give you, is to give you permission to change whenever you want. However, do not hire the 1'000 $/ hour copywriter right away. Give it a little bit of time. Don't pay a 10,000 $ website straight from the bat. Go with something a little bit more simple, so that when you change, it's not quite as painful. Give it about six months or so and work with a certain number of clients.

Kendra:           It's not a death sentence. You are not choosing this niche and now this is the course of your business for the next 20 years. You can change, you can try things out, if you see that things don't work out, try something else. You can get a website up for very little money. One of the best advice I got from a coach, when I first started out, was just to get it out there. Don't invest much money in it. Get it out there, see if it works. You don't need a very complex or crazy looking website to be successful. You can have something very basic that does very well for you.

Christine:        Absolutely. I know business owners who have one page. They literally have one button on their website. No menu, just an image and one button and that's it. I wouldn't recommend it for everyone straight away. It depends on how you market yourself.

It depends if you have a brick and mortar or whether you want to reach out to the digital world; simply because, if you're local it would make a big difference whether you are totally niched or whether you are having a more general clinic.

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Kendra:           I live in a town of 10,000. If I was going to have a strictly local business, my decision on if I am going to niche or focus in, is going to look a little bit different vs. if I lived in a city with a few million people vs. being in the online world, which is a billion or more people.

In a town of 10,000 I can probably get away with having something more general, maybe running a general health clinic or just having one kind of general focus vs. being online, which is going to be a lot harder to market.

Christine:       Yeah, absolutely. Even though I always say people would drive miles and miles for someone, who's really good at what they do; until you get there, it would be pretty risky to just focus on thyroid, but that is actually very general that it might work, but let's say toe fungus. That might not be the best idea in the world, but who knows, you might be able to make it.

Kendra:           You could make toe fungus work online.

Christine:       Right. So that's definitely one of the things to consider. Brick and mortar vs. online or whether they want to have another leg in the online world and still have your brick and mortar, which I see a lot of medical doctors do. They have their practice and they are also having tele-medicine, which I find is very, very cool.

Now, let's talk a little bit about the pros of niching. Let's say you decide to work digitally or you live in a really big city or area with a lot of people; it's obviously a lot easier to market yourself. The language you use is easier and you focus on one certain person that you're talking to. My niche is sleep and I focus on people that can't sleep, but I also have people who don't sleep enough. So you could say I have two categories. Two loops. That's it. I have the group that wants to sleep but can't and I have the group, who is not getting enough sleep, yet is not quite aware of it. So that's it for me. It is very, very limited and easier for me to write my copy. That is the text on my website. It's easier for me to pitch media. It's easier for media to find me through Google search if they look for sleep experts for adults. I'm number one on Google! So it's pretty cool. It has a lot of advantages that way. On the other hand, obviously you're limiting yourself. You might have people not contact you, because they don't realize that you can help them.

Kendra:            I think that's probably the biggest fear with niching. I know that's how I felt when I first started. I didn't want to get too specific, because I was worried about turning people away and as a new business owner that is the last thing you want to do. That makes your heart break in two. You don't want to turn people away. You want clients. I have a much more general niche and I never really got super specific. I started out with female hormone imbalance and ultimately when you talk about hormones, you end up talking about the gut. So then, I naturally started talking about the gut. Then my interest took me towards detox and minerals. So I actually have three different types of people who contact me. I have women with severe hormonal conditions, I have people with chronic GI issues, which actually end up being a lot of men, which is funny, because I don't actually market to men and then I get people with fatigue, who want to detox, who want to bounce the minerals.

In the end, what's interesting is, I kind of do the same thing with everyone, but it's just different ways of talking to people. Everyone needs to be on a healthy diet. We are FEM and we run lab tests. I run pretty much the same lab tests with everyone. It's just all about who I'm talking to in that copy and sometimes, depending on what I want to do, I have to write different types of copy. I launched the hormone course last year, so I had to be really specific with the hormone niche and then I had a gut program. So I think it's maybe a bit more complicated for me, because I have to have a few different ways of talking to people vs. for you it's pretty straightforward.

Christine:            Absolutely, I agree. I find it funny as well that we both primarily market to women, my branding colors are pink and gold, yet we both have a lot of men contacting us. That's another thing that we discussed, you don't always know what you think, you know. You might think you know exactly who is suffering from the problem that you are offering a solution to, but that's not necessarily true. When I talk to people about ideas, how I can really branch out, people always tell me that I have to talk to CEOs or to upper management. The thing is those people don't have time; they don't care a lot of the time, because they are so busy making money, which I get, that they don't care whether they don't get enough sleep and maybe they are aware that it's bad for them, but they're going to do it anyway. Does are not my peeps, that's not my crowd.

So sometimes you think you know, but you actually don't. You have to sort of stay general or my advice would be to have your niche, but still chose to stay a little bit general in the beginning, before you completely narrow yourself down and we talked about this before.

I talked to facebook ads expert Amanda Bond. She's amazing and the way she runs a facebook ad is very counterintuitive. Usually you're told that you have to market towards your avatar, which is your ideal client and have your facebook ad be as specific as possible. The way she does it, she starts really, really broadly and let's facebook do its thing. Facebook is going to find out who likes your stuff, because they're going to click, they're going to interact and then it narrows the audience down and it might be something completely different than what you thought in the beginning and I loved that. Very often we are pushed to have this really specific idea in mind and sometimes we don't know.

I got to really know who to talk to when I started to work with people and I suddenly saw what all of these people had in common. In a way you only get that with experience and maybe the people that you thought you wanted to work with are actually not at all the crowd that you jive with.

I started as a baby sleep consultant and it turns out that I'm not the perfect fit for sleep deprived parents,. They are not the perfect fit for me and I am not for them. It worked, but it was super stressful for me.

Kendra:            And I believe, you don't have to have it all figured out right away. If you have something in mind and you're really committed and this is what you want to do, that's awesome. But if you're not one of those people, that's okay. You can still take the time to let it pan out naturally or organically. It is really interesting about the facebook ads experts. It's definitely the opposite I've ever learned when it comes to facebook ads, but it makes sense. Facebook knows what they're doing and maybe just based on that you can actually see where that goes and where that leads. It's true, sometimes what you think, you know is actually not what you know and maybe the person you're marketing to and you think is going to relate to your program, service or course, may actually not be in the group that wants to buy.

Christine:          Exactly. My mind was blown away. I am happy to report that Amanda has agreed to be on our podcast.

Kendra:              That is amazing!! I'm super excited. I love talking about facebook ads.

Christine:           It is going to be super geeky! I love it. Now the other thing that we talked about is, sometimes you know exactly what it is you're talking about, but your audience doesn't. So for me sleep is sleep, but for Kendra, for example, hormones are not as obvious.

Kendra:              Yeah... When you're in the industry, when you are health coaches like us, it's obvious. You understand female hormone imbalance. A lot of people however, may not actually realize they have a hormone imbalance. They will say that their hormones are fine, but that they have PMS. Then you have to explain to them that that's a hormone imbalance. So sometimes you have to be careful, because the same goes for something like inflammation.

Sometimes you have to teach people, they have inflammation, they might know they have pain, but they don't actually know that that is actually inflammation. So if you are nicheing or branding towards a health condition, you might actually have to spend time educating people on conditions they might have, because it's not obvious for everyone else, who doesn't have the same training we do. I also work a lot with fatigue and I don't have to teach people about fatigue. They know they're tired, they know they're exhausted. I can say exhausted, tired, rundown and people know exactly what that is vs. female hormone imbalance. People may not actually know that that's what they have.

Christine:          Exactly and when you start to get your message honed down, my biggest advice is to write the way you speak. Don't use code languages, like I'm helping you to empower, to get optimal health or the next level....

Kendra:              Take your health to the next level! What does that mean???

Christine:          How are you taking her health to the next level? Or are you standing in your light today? NO!! Who says that? Nobody. Write the way you would to a friend. The other thing is an example that you gave in a prior conversation and that is people are not aware very often.

Kendra:              Yeah, I was talking about Dr. Alan Weinstein and I believe, he created the bowflex workout machine. He did this big commercial campaign and they did a bunch of surveys on people, who were all severely overweight or obese. One of the questions was, if they think they were healthy and they all said yes! We would not look at overweight or obese people and think they were healthy. We'd rather say, these people have to work on their health; they have so much work to do. I think because in our system, you are either healthy or you have a disease and you are sick. So there's all that in between that people just think in absence of symptoms or just being able to get up and feed yourself and walked through the day is healthy. Sometimes, we have to actually educate people that there's something wrong with them. So you can't just say let's get healthy, take your health to the next level, achieve optimal health. What does that even mean? If people who are sick already think they're healthy, then you're not even speaking to anyone.

Christine:          Exactly. So the most, I would take is, if you wake up in the morning and you're tired, guess what? You're not sleeping enough. And sometimes I hear 'oh, what do you mean? I slept 2 hours and I'm fine.' Well, are you a superhuman? Do you wake up naturally? No.

Kendra:              I've had women who have PCOS endometriosis and tell me that they think there's something wrong with their hormones. You're like, yeah, duh, but people just don't know this. So you have to talk to people where they're at, which is probably really, really basic information or very minimal education in what they have going on with them.

Christine:          With tons of love and sometimes you think you say the same thing a gazillion times. Whenever I say the word cortisol, I just wait for someone to punch me, because they've heard it so many times, but for them it's actually new; I just said it a gazillion times.

Kendra:              I feel like the broken record with copper toxicity. Sometime I wonder if someone's going to be like, stop talking about copper toxicity!! But it hasn't happened yet.

Christine:          I know. Cortisol for me!

Alright, we've got one more wisdom nugget heading your way. If you go to look for Kendra it is www.kendraperry.net and for me it is sleeplikeaboss.com. See what I did there?

This is a tricky one. On one hand I think I would in general advise you to go with your name rather than an idea. For me it's a little bit different, because Sleep like a Boss is just an absolutely awesome name for a business.

When you do branding, people are going to drill you down on getting your elevator pitch. This means you have your sentence, when somebody asks you what do you do?, you're going to say, 'I help X, Y, Z, target audience. So people who don't sleep to transform their sleep, so that they can be happy and healthy forever. For me, I usually say, my business is called Sleep like a Boss. That's it! Then they asked me, how do you do that? Which is awesome, because they are curious, which is amazing.

But in general it doesn't work that way. I think it's always great if you have your name; especially if you change your niche. Let's say if you were ‘Hormone Queen Three Thousand’ and then suddenly you would just work with thyroid or with toe fungus, it would be very difficult to change.

Kendra:            Yes, I think it is easier to use your name. Originally, when I started blogging, I was Crazy, Happy, Healthy. I had that blog for about five or six years and it was just like a hobby blog and I talked about everything. I didn't have any specific thing. I just talked about this and that and everything, but it was also a long time ago, where you could actually do that. It was a pretty successful blog. Having no focus and no specific thing I was talking about. But once I realized I wanted to monetize and make money out of having this career in the health industry, I realized that I needed to figure out who I was actually talking to and I tried to think of ways to turn that Crazy Happy, Healthy into something that made money.

In the end I had articles on 50 different topics and it didn't make sense. So I went to Kendraperry.net. Obviously when you hear Kendraperry.net, a lot of people don't know who I am. It doesn't mean anything. So I have to work hard on an elevator pitch. But if I do decide to change my focus, which I have, a few different times, it's really easy to do.

Christine:       I agree and just google wise, it is super easy to do. The thing that you can do, is you have a site tagline. In wordpress, I think it's under reading or general, you should always enter, what it is that you do and you can get very specific. I change it every now and then; whenever I have something smarter coming into my head, I would change it. Right now it's sleep expert and coach for adults. That is great for SEO and for making clear what I do and I always say holistic bespoke programs, I think. Try to cram as much info as you can into that little descriptive space. It's super, super helpful.

Kendra:          Yeah and that's the SEO, the search engine optimization, which helps people find you.

Christine:      So the last point that we have is whether you want to focus on something that you've personally struggled with or not. Again, Kendra and I are very different. I have never had insomnia. I started freaking out about sleep when I was pregnant with my little one, because I ADORE sleep. I was highly pregnant and in Luxembourg, we have an eight weeks maternity leave before the baby comes, so I had the best time in my life! Sleeping in every morning, getting massages. Having having all that was amazing. I had a great pregnancy, so I had nothing to worry about. It was great! Yet, one morning when I was just stretching out, waking up naturally, it dawned on me: this is never going to happen again!

That's how this all started. But it's surely not as tragic as someone, who's not been sleeping for ages. That did not get in the way of me becoming very successful with what I do though. It's just to say that you don't necessarily need to have your own hero's journey in what you do, it can obviously help you. It's a lot easier with your copy, but you don't have to have a focus on it.

Kendra:           I think you can go either way. It definitely helps and a lot of people do end up teaching in an area they’ve personally struggled, just because they have a really intimate connection to it.

I had crazy hormone issues, gut issues, issues with detox fatigue. It's insane! So it's really easy for me to talk about these things and understand what people are going through. It is also easier for me to write copy, because I've been there. I know how it feels! I've experienced all those emotions and all that crap.

You can still be successful. Maybe you struggled with fatigue, but you're just sick of it. You don't want to talk about fatigue anymore. You've been dealing with fatigue for 10 years and don't want to focus on that. That's cool. You can focus on something that you're just interested in examining and learning. However, I think if you do have a really amazing personal story, say you've reversedall  your autoimmune condition, you should use that regardless.

Christine:      Again, literally what you don't want to talk about, that's what you should talk about. That's what people are going to be interested in. Having said that though, I now use the words that I learned from my clients.

My clients confide in me. They don't find anyone who's listening to them, who really understands them and they explain that to me. It's a private space, but I use their ideas and I tell it to people from that point of view. So instead of saying I didn't find someone I could talk to about this, because I didn't think it was a real problem or I was just a wuse; I would say I had a client who told me that. So that works as well. It's just different, but totally valid.

Kendra:         And I think it's important. A coach told me that every time people ask you questions or share something with you, write it down. Put it on a post it and you can use that later. You can use it for Q & A, a live stream or you can use their words for your copy, because I think when it comes to nicheing and speaking to people, you really need to make it about them. Don't make it about you.

I see that in a lot of new business owners. Their website is all about them and 'oh, I did this and I can help with this and blah blah blah'. But really you should vary. It should be all about the person who's coming to the website. They're there to help themselves. So you need to talk to them.

Christine:      Exactly. So even on your about page, and we're going to do a complete episode on that, it's not about you!

Alright, beautiful people. That's it for us today. We're going to be on again in two weeks on the 29th and we will have a guest with us, so stay tuned for that. You will see us and hear us with new episodes every two weeks. If you want to support our mission of bring business tips to people into health coach or health business industry and also continuous education, then you can become a patron of our show. You can go to our website and click the big red button at the bottom of the page. We also have a free gift for you, which you can also get on the same page.

Kendra:           Yes, we have a really great tool kit. It's basically every single tool that we've used to grow successful businesses that pretty much, if you're not using, you're making your life harder. Having an online business is complex and there are so many things you need. So we've really broken down the best things for email marketing, video, etc... everything is in this toolkit. So check that out, it's free!

Christine:        Ok, we'll talk to you in two weeks. Take care and if you have any questions, just shoot us an email via our website or comment on our facebook page.

Kendra:            Bye!

What to do when your client gets stuck

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What to do when your client get stuck

Christine:    Alright everyone hello and welcome to this new episode of the 360 Health Biz Podcast with Kendra Perry and myself, Christine Hansen. Today we have a very exciting topic for you.

Kendra:       We do. I'm really excited to talk about this, because I think this is something that a lot of people are coming into contact with, it’s health practitioners. We learn all this stuff in school and we'd give it to our clients and some people take it and run with it and then get those results. But then you are always going to have those clients, that just, no matter what they do, they're just not getting the results that they want or you want them to have.

Christine:    Yeah, absolutely and so today we are really going to look at all the blind spots that are out there and really going to help you troubleshoot, typical things I guess, that we've seen that our clients had trouble with or maybe that we figured out that we didn't ask in the beginning and that is now something that would just doing regularly, in order to figure out why they are stuck  and so we have a couple of big categories that we're going to go through. The first one, although it seems obvious, is not talked about that much, is mindset.

Kendra:       Yes and so I think when we're working with clients, we have to think about, why are they not getting results? We have to ask that question. Is it because of something they're doing? Is it because of something, some sort of information, we're not giving them? Or is it just because they need to go deeper and maybe we're not the person to help them? So I think those are the three main questions we have to ask. Sometimes it is them and mindset is a big one.

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Christine:    Absolutely. It starts when you actually meet them for the first time. When you have a bad feeling at the beginning, don't be afraid to go with your gut. I've done the mistake so many times, where I thought, 'okay, I have to earn some money' or 'I need the experience and the practice'; and whenever I had about feeling, it kind of panned out exactly that way. So don't be afraid; that would be lesson number one. Don't be afraid to not take a client. It just happened today, where I had someone say, 'Oh, I'm not going to do it after all and I'm going to get back to you in a couple of months'; and I just sent an email back and I said, 'look, I'm not someone, who does this back and forth stuff. I don't think it's a good idea if you come back to me, because I don't think we will be a good match'. He was actually really offended, but I'm sorry! Those are my rules. It's my business. I can do the way I want to do things. So, that is really something that you should start with. You are not under a back-end call, you don't belong to anyone. It's a partnership and I think that's super, super important. It's your job to call their bullshit, as well. We have a couple of things that we wrote down that happen often with mindset work.

Kendra:       Can I just mentioned something before we get into the mindset stuff? I would say, I love what you said about that it is a partnership. You both need to be a fit for each other, but when I'm doing my discovery calls and I hear someone, who seems to be in victim mode; they're blaming everything on everyone else, but themselves and they're not taking personal responsibility. That's a big red flag and that's the kind of person, who may never get results, because they probably need to work with a counselor or they need to do that emotional work first, before they even come to you. So I would be aware of that victim mode, because their health is their responsibility. It's not my responsibility, it's not Christine's responsibility. It's that client's responsibility. If they're not in a place, where they are ready to take responsibility and if they're blaming their health on everyone else, but themselves, that's not going to be a good client. That's a big red flag! Just by meeting that type of person; that 'victim mode client', will actually greatly increase the success rate of your clients, because you're going to be working with people who are ready to take responsibility.

Christine:    Absolutely. I think that's a huge one. Victim mode. Basically having them blame everyone else, rather than to look at their own behavior.That is also very close to the topic that we wrote down, which is self-sabotage. It's a fascinating subject. People don't even know that they're doing it. A lot of the time it has to do with people and how they consider themselves, how much they like themselves, how much they feel that they deserve things. There's a lot of work to do with self valorization, a lot of indoctrination work and a lot of people are brought up with putting themselves last. Having still voices in their head that actually aren't their own and they act upon that and they act a lot of the time, against their own integrity and it's your job to help them find out who they actually are.

What is their voice? What is the parent's voice? What was that teacher's voice? What is their work colleagues voice? What is their partner's voice? If they hear those voices, are those legitimate or not? Because a lot of the times, they will follow that made up advice and that is where self-sabotage comes in and that takes a lot of work. It's very often harmful. Very often it keeps them stuck to even do anything that you suggest to them. You could have the best protocol in the world, but if you have someone, who is just thinking, I don't have the time or I don't deserve investing in supplements or investing in testing, then very often, they are never going to get the results because, let's be honest, working on your health, is a marathon. You really need someone, who thinks they deserve it to actually feel better.

Kendra:       Yes and I think, most clients will have a point in your protocol where they might do a bit of self-sabotaging. We all do it. I do it too! Sometimes I self-sabotage myself. I'm sure you do too, Christine! So I think we have to figure out at what point we do and let people know that if we do determine that they are self-sabotaging, that it's okay, and that everyone does it. We don't want to shame them for it. It happens! When we are sick for a long time, we get used to feeling a certain way. We get very used to not having energy. Recently I had a client, who seemed so motivated in the beginning, but as time went on, he just wasn't implementing and I asked him, if there was some part of him that is benefiting from the fact that he is fatigued all the time?

He said, he feels that he always has an excuse not to go out and be social. 'I don't need to go out and do the stupid family gatherings that I don't want to do and I can always say no. I always have a reason to say no, because I can say that I am tired and not feeling good'. That was really interesting, because I think, we do get used to feeling a certain way and maybe sometimes we do benefit from it. We're using it to our advantage. We can be like, 'oh, I can't go to work today because I have this issue' or 'Oh, I'm not going to do that' and maybe we are using it to our advantage. So I think that's an interesting thing to try and unravel with people.

Christine:    Very interesting! I haven't gone that far yet to be honest. I haven't had a client, where I had that feeling; but it's something maybe that is so alien to me, that I probably wouldn't have considered it. So this is a lesson learned for myself right here. Alright, let's take another look. Take responsibility and then we obviously have a category, where you will meet people, who've had severe trauma. Those are things, where I would definitely say it's not our expertise. You can give support, you can give strategies to help with stress management and calm themselves down. But if you have a person, who had a traumatic experience, I would definitely refer them onto an expert. We're going to talk about the kind of types of experts that we usually refer our clients to, really be aware of that. It might be that they don't come to you immediately and tell you what's going on. Very often you will find it out as you are working with that client.

It's definitely something, where I would always recommend referring out.

Kendra:       Yeah, absolutely. I think it's a good skill, as a practitioner to know at what point it is time to refer out. It's not to say that you can't continue to work with this person. You can still support them, but we have our expertise. Trauma and trauma counseling can be like a big rabbit hole. We don't want to be bringing out people's trauma or asking them to speak about it, unless we actually have the skills to do so. Trauma is a really interesting thing. I do a lot of mineral testing on clients and there's actually a mineral powder that I'll see in the minerals, where I'll know that someone probably has trauma in their past and it correlates really well. I would then ask and they'll be like, 'yes', and then I would suggest that they would probably benefit from doing some energy healing or working with a counselor, because it's a really big thing.

I think we have a history of childhood trauma or not even that really horrible kind of trauma, but just that limiting belief pattern, those beliefs and stories that we picked up when we were children. Like you were saying, those stories that we're telling ourselves from what our parents told us, or siblings or teachers or our friends, these things get wired into your brain and they give us belief patterns that we didn't live our lives through and kind of view through the lens. So I think we have to help people unravel that and then give them the help that they need, so they can help unravel that with a practitioner who knows how to do that.

Christine:    Absolutely. I think that's the absolute basics that you need to have. No matter how great your programs are, how great your recipes are, how amazing your lab test protocols are. It's always a story of the mind and the body. It is really super crucial that you don't neglect that kind of part and really take that time to create that space for your clients to really be there; create that bubble around them. It's super exhausting sometimes, because it takes a little effort from you, but it's what really creates a change. It opens up trust. It opens up motivation. That is definitely a huge one. On the other hand, we are also very clear on boundaries and so that's our next big topic. So mindset is number one that you have to address, if your client gets stuck. Number two is boundaries, which is also important for your client to know. Make sure that you write down in your client agreement what your boundaries are. Whether or not you answer over the weekend, whether or not you answer after a certain amount of time. You let them know that your notes may come one or two days later. Set very clear expectations.

Kendra:       Yes, because I think, when people aren't getting the results that they want, they might tend to reach out more. They might be emailing you all the time, because they're having a rough time and so like you said, it is really important to set those boundaries up front. I love having a contract or a waiver, where they actually have to check the box beside each item so that, they see it. I think these days people sign things without reading them.

Christine:    That's very, very true.

Kendra:       So having that expectation and being very clear on every aspect. How often can they email you? Do they get unlimited email support? How quickly are you going to respond or if you're not giving any unlimited email support, are you going to do email check ins? When is that going to be and what's going to happen? If they email you before that email check in, are you just going to log it and let them know, 'hey, we got it. We'll get to it in a week or whatever it is'.

Christine:    That is just the best way of working together with that client and that partnership. It's just open communication about these things.

Kendra:       Yeah, and if you don't set those boundaries, people will take advantage of you. I've had it happen to me and I'm sure you did too, Christine. When you started as a practitioner and you're less well versed on these things. I had a client once who was emailing me eight times a day and I didn't have anything in my contract about email and I was like, 'Oh yeah, just send me an email if you have questions'. It was crazy. So many questions, out of left field. What's your opinion on this or that? I have a really good one. I had clients send me a 2 hour webinar and tell me to watch it and give my opinion on it. My answer was, why don't you just tell me what it's about. Give me the summary and I'll give you my opinion.

Christine:    I mean that's what's really important. It's not helping them either, because they very often need a structure to work in. It's very different to create a space, when you have your sessions with them, but they need that structure and they need to be reminded that it's a marathon and not a sprint. That is also through you not always replying instantly. Having said that; when you do work with your clients, when you are talking to them, a huge thing that you need to do, is to see where the gaps are about what they are telling you and what they're not telling you. I'm not saying every client is like that, but they don't know a lot of the times what might have an effect on their recovery or on the journey of getting better.

So it's really up to you to find out what kind of questions someone typically forgets to mention or doesn't like to mention and to go digging. Some typical example that I do, is I always ask my clients to keep food logs. I can see if they're motivated by doing it and a lot of the time, they have no idea about their lifestyle habits. You would think everyone knows sugar is not great, chocolate is not great and so forth. But a lot of them are not aware. Another factor that isn't always considered is emotional stress. Suddenly they have a symptom and you ask what's been going on? Was it something at work? No, everything was fine. What about your private life? No. Oh, hang on, actually, my wife's mother died and or something like that. It's something they forgot and you see how it correlates. Emotional stress is something that you need to go digging at as well. That is why creating space is so important; because it is so personal.

Kendra:       Yes. Stress is a big one. I have worked with a couple of ladies, who were doing like massage therapy school recently. Massage therapy school, I don't know what it's like in Luxembourg, but in Canada it's crazy. It's a crazy schedule. They have crazy amounts of exams and there is such a high expectation to do all these projects in such a short amount of time. I've had a really hard time with those ladies, helping them get results, because their stress levels are through the roof. They're overwhelmed, they're stressed all the time. They don't have time for themselves or winding down. That's a hard one to work with. I do my best to support them and we can kind of keep them at some sort of baseline, but as to getting those real results and really getting their energy back or whatever it is. It's a tough one! Chronic stress trumps everything.

Christine:    It does. It's so important to know what it actually is. So having the education and making them aware of factors that they might think are trivial and how much they are affecting the health is absolutely key.

Alright. So it's a lot of detective work on stress limiting beliefs that they have. Making them aware, as we said before and creating space. Now let's get to the practical things. Some things that are very often neglected and it's a discussion that you need to have.

I don't know how much of a protocol you have, Kendra. This is something that I mentioned to my folks, which is chemical exposure and I don't think I do it enough. I usually tell them, your skin is like a mouth. If you wouldn't actually eat it, you probably wouldn't put it on your skin or shouldn't put it on your skin. Very often it gives them an idea, but I think I should probably be a little bit stricter about it. This is a good one that you can actually handle as to how you do that, because I think your best practices might be better than mine.

Kendra:       This is a really, really important one and honestly, I think as we move into the future, this is going to become way, way more important for all of us as health coaches. I know in the United States there are 84,000 chemicals in the environment. Those are in our personal care products, household cleaning products. They are in our air, food and water. Research shows that the dose doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if you're getting exposed to a little bit of that chemical or a large amount; the symptoms are going to be the same and the research is really clear on that. We know that it's getting stored in our body and we know that we're getting it. So this is a big deal. A lot of these chemicals actually inhibit enzymes to make certain hormones, to detox certain hormones. I think a lot of what we're seeing with thyroid disorder and estrogen issues, really comes down to a lot of these synthetic chemicals that we're getting exposed to. It's a big rabbit hole. It's huge. We are getting it from everywhere; but what are the things that we can control? We need to be talking to our clients about what are they using to cook their food in?

Are they using nonstick Teflon pans, for example? Any nonstick pan is full of chemicals and that is leaching into food. You mentioned it before. Personal care products, household cleaning products; anything we are rubbing on our skin. Toothpaste we're putting our mouth; 60% of what you put on your skin is going to end up in the bloodstream and at that point it can come into contact with every single cell in the body. It's a big thing. We also need to look at what our clients are drinking their water out of. Are they drinking out of a plastic bottle? Are they getting to go coffees? Because those  little Dixie cups, that plastic lining, is an endocrine disruptor. It's synthetic estrogen. So you are getting a big dose of estrogen every time you get your little to go coffee in a Dixie Cup. It's just crazy! These are things we need to be thinking about with our clients.

Water is another big one. Your clients can not be drinking tap water or well water, absolutely not. Tap Water. If it's on municipal water, you're getting exposed to drug residues from all your neighbors, who are taking thyroid- and birth control pills and blood pressure medication. You're getting herbicides, pesticides, heavy metals and then you're getting the highlights: chlorine and bromine. Those things will actually interact with your thyroid. I could go deep on this one! We should actually do a whole episode on this, because I have the time and the will.

Christine:    Absolutely, we will! I think that is a good starting point though. I usually tell my clients to start to slowly replace your household items. Take a look at what you have and then when it's empty, go to the shops and see whether you can get something that has the least chemicals as possible. Something that you are you comfortable with. Use essential oils as a replacement. Try to go natural as you can. Look to use deodorant that, because it's so close to your limbs, maybe doesn't have a perfume etc. I do mine out of essential oils. Different things, different suggestions and we are going to talk about that in  more detail. It's just really important that it is a part of your program. Have a little side note in your program. A lot of 'done for you programs' for health coaches have detoxes in them. Before you do anything like that, it's super important that you support the liver, because you are basically going to pull all of those toxins, out of their safe space. Fats, deposits and antipode tissue and they're going to roam free. So it's super important that your liver is up to it and that it can flush them out. Before you do a detox with your clients at is something I would absolutely suggest you do first and then you can use a detox program that you have. Detoxing is nothing or it's not going to help, as much, as preventing having them replenish on their toxins. It's a big step that is often overlooked.

Kendra:       And I love what you mentioned about doing it slowly, because if you just tell someone, okay, you need to get rid of all your pots and pans, you need to replace all your personal care, you need to get rid of all your makeup. That's crazy! People are feeling super overwhelmed. Creating some sort of protocol or a strategy that allows people to do it slowly, is really important. I don't think there's any point in detoxing anyone, if you don't address the incoming source of toxins. Of course some of it we have no control over. A lot of it comes to us through industry and even if we're eating organic produce and meat, it's still getting into us. We can't really fully control that, but there are a lot of things that we can control and that is really what we need to coach our clients on. I specialize in detox and I see so many of my clients full of chemicals and metals and all kinds of crazy stuff. So this is going to be a big thing.

Christine:    And we're definitely to talk more about that and give you some protocol ideas in our membership site when we do that episode.

Oh, right! The next one is a simple one, but, and I'm guilty of not doing it enough. Hydration. I'm a disaster when it comes to hydration. I never get thirsty, unless my body is screaming for it. I very rarely get thirsty quickly. It makes the biggest, biggest difference. Hydration is huge. You can get little gadgets. I have a water bottle with a little lighting thing called 'Ulla', which lights up when I haven't used the bottle and moved it for some time. It reminds me to take a sip and those are little tricks that you need to use. As we said before, no tap water, use mountain spring in glass bottles. Don't buy the plastic use glass bottles.  We have like this old school depositaire service. A truck or a van comes to your house every two weeks and delivers drinks to your door. That's why we use glass bottles, because we don't have to go to the shop and actually buy the bottles. They just get delivered and then they take them back and they are being cleaned and refilled.

Using glass bottles instead of plastic bottles changed my life. Give kids also small glass bottles. I have one in the car and just thinking about the plastic getting hot and having all those chemicals in the water for my little one, is not acceptable. As to the amount of water. People say two to three liters a day, I can hardly imagine it. Water is key. When you start working with someone, really asked them to only drink water; not even have tea or anything like that, but really only stick to water for a couple of weeks.

Kendra:       Yeah, I agree. I love talking about hydration, because I feel like with health, our minds naturally get really complicated and I think people do this too. They're like, oh my God, I'm not feeling well. Maybe it's this, maybe it's that. Maybe I have a parasite. Sometimes we just need to come back to the basics. Are you drinking enough water? Are you getting enough sleep? Are you reducing stress? Sometimes it's a "dah..." situation. Water is really important. I usually recommend that people drink about half their body weight in ounces in a day. It can seem like a lot for people. Usually when people feel thirsty, it means they're very dehydrated and that their body's not even able to tell them that they are dehydrated. Most people will need to work up to drinking more water, because it is a bit tricky. I always recommend that people put sea salt or Himalayan rock salt in their water. I put a quarter teaspoon for every liter of water I drink and what's really amazing is that it is one of the biggest things that has helped my clients. It's a biggest game changer for everyone. Almost every single one of my clients says that it has helped them so much. It's been a game changer for me too. It's so simple.

Christine:    Absolutely. Take notes people! We are going to write it down in the show notes and do a check list of the things that we're suggesting. This is golden. Thank you! That was hydration. The next one is overhyped, but it's not, it's just reality. It's a topic that you've heard about. It is gluten, my friends. I know everyone is talking about it and yet our clients are cheating, like right front and center! They know and sort of have an idea. What we found is that you really need to explain them the why. You really need to educate them and not just say you can't eat gluten. If you tell that to someone, they just want to shoot themselves. It's just like this image of pasta and pizza vanishing forever. When you actually explain what that is and what it does to your intestinal wall. How it has evolved through the years in commercial farming. That its antibodies stay in your body for months and that they are creating havoc in there and that it is a doppelganger for hormone enzymes.

For example, gluten is a doppelganger for your thyroid hormone, so your body can get confused. Gluten and casein are both doppelgangers of the thyroid hormone, so that is important. We also have to look at where we can find gluten. It's not just in refined foods, like flour and so forth. It's also in personal care products. It's in sauces, it's in so many different things. We talked about this a little bit. It's just incredible. So it can be exhausting, but I find when you teach them what it is, it's much easier to find it. I also find results are incredibly quick. If you take someone of gluten, they're going to lose so much weight, so quickly. They are going to feel so much better so quickly. So it's worth it. But I find the biggest mistake is just telling them that they can't eat gluten.

Kendra:       I agree. You've got to educate them. Because it is trendy. Gluten free is this super trendy thing. It's the one thing I can pull from someone's diet that almost always gives them some sort of results. I noticed a big difference with energy levels, especially if you have clients, who are chronically fatigued. I mean, gluten has to go; they need to at least challenge it. You don't need to tell them get rid of it forever, but maybe let's get rid of it for 3 to 6 months and see what happens. Let's see how you feel. Something that a lot of people don't know about gluten, is that with conventional farming, they actually dump roundup or glyphosate on wheat crops of two to three days before harvest, because it enhances the yields, which is crazy! This is like GMO glyphosate, pure chemical that they just dumped all over it three days before they harvest it and put it to market. So that's a big deal!

Christine:    It is. I think it's even more in the US than in Europe, because even though we do have roundup, it's a different kind. It's a little bit regulated, a little bit harsher, but still, let's not fool ourselves, it's still not ideal.

Kendra:       Europe is way ahead of us in so many things.

Christine:    But I think even knowing that these plants are harvested when they're supposed to reproduce and they are naturally protecting themselves from being eaten by animals, why would we be able to tolerate it then? It's very, very logical if you go into the story and if you haven't done so, please do and try to find your way of educating it or transmitting that information to your client. I find gluten is a game changer, but you need to really educate and do your homework with your client on that.

Kendra:       Yeah, absolutely. I think it's a good way to approach it as like an elimination diet. Let's take it out and let's see what happens. If people notice that it makes them feel better, they're going to be way more on board with actually sticking with it, if they actually see the results.

Christine:    Absolutely. Another thing that both Kendra and I found, is that sometimes just coaching and just optimizing in general is not enough. That is when you have clients, who are skeptical, who need a little bit more data and information. That's when I would work with someone, who is into functional diagnostics and who can run some lab tests. I cannot tell you how often my clients only started to become very motivated, after they seen the test results. You can evaluate it again and it gives them a beautiful window afterwards, when they reevaluate and see how everything changed. I find testing is huge in motivating your clients.

Kendra:       Yeah, absolutely. Both Christine and I, we are both functional diagnostic nutrition practitioners and I agree that testing is a really powerful tool. If you're a health coach and you don't have this tool, we do recommend maybe making a connection with someone who does this. I have a few health coaches, who send me their clients. They just aren't getting results or it sounds like they have a parasite or maybe they think they have a mineral imbalance. They'll send them to me and we'll do the testing and they'll continue to work with them and support them. You could do it as a collaborative thing. The type of client comes to me, is a woman, who is usually very on top of things, already eating organic or eating a Paleo Diet.

They do lots of yoga, they meditate, they do all these really amazing things for their health and they still feel like absolute garbage. With a client like that, you really do need lab testing. We need to look under the hood. We need to see what is preventing the body from functioning at its best. Sometimes you can't even give that person anymore advice, because they're eating this amazing diet, they're sleeping, they're reducing stress. So where do you look next? I think that's why it's important to have that connection with someone, who can do lab testing with your client.

Christine:    Yeah, I absolutely agree. As Kendra said, if you want to get into this and you didn't know where to start, then just reach out to us and we can hook you up with getting those step data. That's going to help you to actually show your clients something. Sometimes it's just easier than just having faith. Having faith can be difficult, especially if you're exhausted and if everything seems to go wrong. So then you need to get one.

Kendra:       Absolutely! I know with myself, I can do anything, if I know it's what I'm supposed to do. If I see a lab test that shows that you have this issue, you need to do this, I'm onboard! I'll go like balls to the wall with it. But if I hear, 'oh, I think, your liver is congested, take this and oh maybe you have a vitamin B deficiency, take this', then I have a really hard time following through with it. I'm very much like a data person and need to see it. So if you see that your clients are like that too, then maybe you do need to find someone, who can help them with the testing.

Christine:    Exactly. I agree. Oh, right. Then the last thing that we mentioned in the beginning, is when to refer out and to whom. Kendra and I both have a list of practitioners that we refer out to. So as we said before, if it's a traumatic thing, it might be a psychologist. If it's severe depression, maybe a psychiatrist. Psychiatrists are very different in different countries. In Luxembourg it's more dealing out tablets than anything else. So you need to know who you're working with.

I send a lot of my clients to hypnotherapists. I work very closely with a friend of mine, who does that. I find it works really, really well. So hypnotherapy is definitely one and then I also refer them out, when I find that there is some body stress to a friend who does Bowen therapy. Bowen therapy is working with the Fascia of the body, which is basically your epiderm I believe. The layer on top of your muscles and it's very gentle and it just helps very well when you have tension. I would say, if you need to have a rehabilitation of  something. If you had surgery and you need rehab of your stuff, go to a physiotherapist. If it's your bones go to an osteopath or chiropractor and when it's tension, I very often really liked to work with Bowen, because it's so gentle. Those are a couple of treatments that I refer to. Kendra, you have a couple of others that you like.

Kendra:       Yes, I refer a lot to acupuncture. I think acupuncture is really helpful when there's inflammation or even with emotional issues. I think acupuncturist can really be good at opening up those, chi pathways or whatever they call it in the body. So I recommend a lot to acupuncture. I also recommend a lot to counselors, who do Emdr, which stands for: Eye movement desensitization and reprocessing. It's a really great trauma therapy. It uses the eye movements to reset pathways in the brain and unwind the associations that you have from traumatic pasts. I actually did it this myself and it's probably one of the most powerful things I've ever done for my emotional health. It's literally been life changing. I refer a lot of my clients, who have a history of childhood trauma or have been through really traumatic situations or events. I find it to be really powerful and generally a counselor will have some sort of training in this, so you'll just want to make sure you find someone, who's good at it. That's a really good one.

I also do cranial sacral, which I use for structural issues. If people have a lot of migraines or headaches, I might send them to someone, who does cranial sacral. I don't really fully understand what it is, but they do a lot of realigning the spine and working with interstitial,  spinal fluid. I find that really helpful as well.

Christine:    Absolutely. I had Faydra and Choco doing that on my summit a year ago and I was absolutely blown away by the results that this therapy can provide. I haven't met anyone here in Luxembourg who does it. I'm pretty sure in the US you would be able to find some practitioner nearby. So those are a couple of things that I would say are only helpful, if you build relationships with those practitioners. I mean it is holistic. We look at the different parts. Everyone has their expertise. Nobody needs to know everything. It's about helping people buffer everything and to support their body as much as we can.

Kendra:       Yeah, exactly. Usually people need a lot of different help and a lot of times we see things that people need help with and we can't be the ones to help them with, especially when we're working online with people. Maybe we have massage skills, but I can't massage you. I think it's really good to source out certain practitioners. Maybe in the area we will work in or even online and build relationships with them, so you can trust them and then you can send your clients to them. They can then maybe refer clients back to you.

It's also a good strategy for increasing the amount of clients that you're getting and increasing referrals. I think it's really important to sort of recognize, when you're not the right person to help them out.

Christine:    Yeah, absolutely and it will have them not to be stuck anymore. Okay, so let's just go through it very quickly. So we talked about mindset. We talked about your boundaries that are beneficial for you, plus your clients. We talked about chemical exposure, we talked about hydration, we talked about gluten and we talked about testing and we talked about when to refer out. So it's seven elements in total that we looked at today. For a couple of them we already decided to do separate episodes on. If there's a topic that you want to know more about than just reach out to us.

Christine:    We've also just created a new patron side. I'm going to drop the link in the description box so that you can support us if you went to and we're going to listen to your wish list to talk about that very soon and that would be it for this episode.

Kendra:       Thanks everyone.

Christine:    Thanks and we will talk to you in a couple of weeks when we'll be back. You can see our videos on Facebook, on YouTube, and you can listen to us on our podcast, which is hosted on audioboom and on iTunes, and you can find everything on our website, which is 360healthbizpodcast.com. Bye!

Jamie Palmer on the 360 Health Biz Podcast

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Jaime is a digital business strategist and implementation coach with almost 15 years of experience working with entrepreneurs to build their digital business ecosystem, to grow, scale and simplify their online business.

She started her business back in college as a website design business and then with the emergence of social media, she added that into her offering because she use to do a lot of networking in person and she used social media to stay connected with the people she met. She quickly realized the importance of the social media and added that as a service. With the development of social media, she soon started to work solely with online entrepreneurs (5-6 years ago) and she believes it’s all about building a digital ecosystem and not focusing only on one platform, but building a system for distributing one valuable piece of content on multiple platforms. This is what her company does as a “Done for you” service for clients and they also teach people how to do that.

One of the reasons Jaime believes in building an ecosystem instead of focusing only on one platform is because things change. For example, there is a huge decline in client’s conversion rates on Facebook while Instagram is trending. Also people’s behavior changes when it comes to social media- most people don’t spend as much time on Facebook as they use to. An average person has around 750 friends on Facebook, meaning that they have around 1,500 stories to read every time they log in and an average user logs in 7 times a day, which means 10,500 status updates per day. So things are changing and brands will have to develop more valuable content to be able to come in front of their clients and adapt to current trends.

Whether you are making millions of dollars online or you are just getting started, the struggle is the same- how do I keep consistent with the content. According to Jaime, wherever you are in your business you have to focus on creating one valuable piece of content each week and distribute that piece of content everywhere. Their philosophy called “Content work flow” is if you create one valuable piece of video content or a blog post that can be repurposed in multiple places. Your 10 minute video can be turned into 10 or 20 short posts- text posts, quote posts, call-to-action posts, etc. So don’t be afraid to repurpose your content -Facebook people are Facebook people, YouTube people are YouTube people, Instagram people are Instagram people and so on and also a lot of it depends on algorithms, times of day you post it and other factors. One other thing to keep in mind when you are repurposing your content is to pain attention to structure- so that it is clear what are the high level points you wanted to highlight.  

Your 10 minute video can be turned into 10 or 20 short posts. #360healthbiz #podcast #jamiepalmer #outliermarketinggroup

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One other thing that effects your numbers is creating content that your audience wants to engage in. lack of interaction with your audience shows in your comments, likes, etc. and Facebook knows that and drives your reach down. So you have to pay attention to your audience and adapt your strategies to your audience. For example, it is very important for health coaches to understand who the person that they are trying to help is and what is the problem that they are trying to solve.  Get specific about the person you are talking to, know them so well. Once you do that, understand how you can make their life better because they need a tangible outcome on how you are going to make their life better. If you can increase someone else’s status (make them healthier, wealthier, etc.) then you will be able to make that person take out their credit card and make a difference. In Jaime’s case, every time she is talking to one of her clients she writes down every question they ask her and creates some type of content from that that she can later repurpose, especially if that person is her ideal client. This is really helpful for creating new content, especially if you do it on a weekly basis.

Stop just selling, instead provide value, show up, ask them to join your email list, let them send you a message if they have any questions, because some people prefer not to leave comments and want to stay anonymous and eventually they will buy. Because when you are coming from a place of giving and value people feel that and this is especially important for health industry that is extremely personal and this can really help you grow your business when you are first starting. One thing that people often disregard is groups- find groups where your ideal client is hanging out and share your content there, just make sure it is value-driven. So, step one- create awesome content for your ideal client that solves the problem that you know they have and step two- identify the person you are talking to.

When you are repurposing content is best to start with a video.

According to Jaime she always starts with 3 to 5 points in the video and she has a list of high level categories that she likes to address, so she actually goes back- she has these 5 to 7 categories that she always wants to address (for example: grow, launch, nurture, amplify) and she makes sure that every live she does fits into one of those categories. Within each category there are subtopics (for example: email marketing secrets) and that would be the topic for a Facebook live. That Facebook live would have 3 to 5 points within it.

She then downloads that Facebook live and uploads it as a podcast, then she gets it transcribed. After that she uploads it to YouTube with the same description she has on Facebook. She then uses the transcript and cleans it up, transfers it into an email.

After that she creates the “baby content”: 3-5 quotes, couple of short form videos (30-60 sec), and 3-4 longer posts with more value with that one point from Facebook live in each post.

She also creates a blog post that she shares on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and Pinterest and all the social media posts get distributed to other media platforms. She also turns every Facebook live into a Facebook ad to turn cold traffic into warm traffic (for example ask them for their email).

When creating high level categories for a health niche Jaime recommends that you think about the steps that your client have to go through in order to get from where they are to where they want to be and use those steps to create 5 to 7 high level categories. For example: identifying the issue, mindset, roadblocks on the way, motivation or client testimonials or interviews, etc. But it all depends on the industry and the methods you use.

If you ever feel like you are running out of ideas Jaime’s advice is to post to Facebook groups, ask for questions, feedback and see what people are interested in.

If you are just starting out, Jaime recommends that you start with 2 platforms and email marketing that is non-negotiable. Collect as many email addresses as you can and make sure that you nurture them.

Be gentle with yourself because there is defiantly a learning curve and create one big document to start from. One document that houses everything: links to YouTube, links to the blog, transcriptions, emails, everything and from that one document link email master file, transcription master file, social media calendars so that there is one place where everything lives and then you link out to other places.

If you are interested, you can go to omgnurture.com where you can find a free training on how to take one piece of video content and turn it into twenty, there is also a blueprint there that are really valuable tools to start with. 

Jamie's website: www.outliermarketinggroup.com

Get in touch with her:

www.facebook.com/outliermktg

www.instagram.com/outliermktg

Episode Zero

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In this podcast Kendra and Christine alongside their guests will help you figure out what you are missing in your business. Learn how to survive in an online business world, how to get clients, how to earn money, be a salesperson and a marketer.

Every episode is going to help you to take action steps to build your business, be on top of the latest gigs and software that you could establish in your business. #360healthbiz #podcast

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Every episode is going to help you to take action steps to build your business, be on top of the latest gigs (both Kendra and Christine are techy geeks) and software that you could establish in your business. After each episode you will be able to get a video where they will show you what they have done, so that you can imitate it in your own business.

Because they are both in the health sector, they also want to have some continued education- so they will have a sporadic expert talking about something that we all deal with.

So, they will not only talk about your business but they will also help you change the lives of your clients- whether it’s their health issues, emotional or mental issues. Transforming the lives of your clients will also help you grow your business. Kendra and Christine both have successful businesses with different niches, Kendra is currently exploring the heavy metal niche while Christine’s niche is sleep. So, if you have any questions or you just want a fresh pair of eyes, feel free to contact them. 

This is going to be a very genuine and honest podcast (no editing) with tons of information and tons of fun with a new (live) episode every two weeks.

You can also watch them on their YouTube and Facebook page-360 Health Biz Podcast.

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