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Biz Bomb – The Importance of Niching

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Welcome to your Biz Bomb episode of the 360 Health Biz podcast where we provide a quick tip to blow your mind and help your business. And today’s Biz Bomb is about niching. We have talked about niching A LOT so this is just a refresher of why niching is so important for your business.

The truth of the matter is - if you don't choose ONE target market, you are going to struggle to get ANY clients. Here's why: think of niching as the difference between  a dollar store and a specialty store. The dollar store has a lot of cheap stuff, whereas a specialty store has a limited amount of high quality items. If you try to talk to everyone, your message won't be clear.

When you have your niche client, you will be able to use specific wording, messaging and marketing strategies to approach your group. 

In this episode, Kendra walks you through an example of just how niching would work. Tune in now to take a listen!

If you're listening to this on the podcast and you found this helpful, just screenshot this episode, share it to your stories, mention @360healthbizpodcast, and we will share it to our stories. Just let us know in that story, what were your biggest take-homes and did this work.

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What's up 360 friends. This is Kendra Perry, your amazing cohost and this is your Biz Bomb episode where we give you a super juicy tip for your biz that takes up almost no time at all. So in this quick episode, I want to talk quickly about the importance of niching. I have been getting on Instagram in my DMs, so many questions about niching. In my opinion, your ability to define your niche is the first step in running a successful business. And if you don't niche properly, if you don't actually choose a market segment, then you are going to struggle to get clients. It's going to take you a long time to build your business, and there's a good chance you may not be successful at all. There is so much fear around niching, so much fear, and I get it because you feel, "Well, I'm a new health coach and I need clients and if I niche, I'm going to be excluding certain people." And I'm here to help and I want to help everyone. You cannot target the entire market on the internet. Okay?

That is crazy. There are ... I don't know how many billion of people online, but maybe there's 3, 4 billion people online. You can't talk to every single one of them, that is impossible. You can think of niching as the difference between deciding to have a dollar store versus deciding to have a specialty store. So you really need to choose one segment of the market out there and talk to them. A big reason why coaches aren't able to get clients is because they haven't actually determined a proper niche, therefore their messaging isn't clear and it's not necessarily speaking to anyone. So let's say that I am a woman in my 30s and I've just gotten adult acne, cystic acne all over my face. I do not know where it came from, I've never had acne my entire life and I'm just so devastated about this. And so I'm like ... Go to the doctor and they recommend Accutane, and of course some antibiotics and I'm like ... Read up on Accutane and realize it has all these gnarly side effects.

I'm like, "Okay." Don't want to take longterm antibiotics, don't want to take Accutane. There needs to be another way. There needs to be some natural solution for this. So I start googling, I'm googling, I'm googling and googling. What do you think I'm actually googling for? Am I googling how to improve my health and wellness or am I googling solutions for adult acne? Right. So I know what I'm googling for, I'm googling for solutions for acne. And as someone who actually struggled with acne, all my searches were related to acne and none of them involved the words "health", "wellness", "nutrition". It was literally just like, "Natural solutions for acne." And that's what I was searching over and over and over again. And let's say I get to two different health coaches websites and one of them says, "I help you uncover healing opportunities and improve your health and wellness so you can be the best version of yourself." Versus this other health coach I find who says, "I help women in their 30s struggling with adult acne, get clear skin naturally." Who do you think I'm going to choose?

I will never pick the first one because I'm going to look at that and be like, "Well, my health is fine. Actually really good health. Went to the doctor, got my blood work done and they gave me a clean bill of health. So my health is fine, my wellness is fine, but my acne is the problem." Just because we know as health practitioners that all the symptoms that people are experiencing are connected to their overall health does not mean that they know that. And so if you cannot meet them where they're at and where they're at is struggling with a very specific symptom, then they aren't going to pay attention to you and that's just not going to mean anything for them. So this is why it's so important to be very specific with your niche, otherwise you will attract no one. I really cannot stress how important it is to niche. When I work with health coaches and they are telling me, "Well, I can't get clients, I don't know what's wrong. I'm doing all the things, and I'm just not making enough money."

I will go on their website and their Instagram and I will instantly see that they don't have a specific niche and that is why, because their messaging just doesn't appeal to anyone. You really need to think about how do people actually think about their health? How do they think about the pain that they're experiencing? I don't remember the last time I heard anyone say, "I want to be the best version of myself. I really want to optimize my health. I really want to take my health to the next level. I want to feel well and get well naturally." People don't say these things. When people are struggling with their health, they say, "I want to stop having this chronic joint pain." They say, "I'm so sick of these migraines." They say, "I'm so exhausted, I'm so sick of being tired." They say, "I wish I didn't have diarrhea every day, it's so embarrassing." So you really need to meet them where they're at and that is with that one specific pain or symptom that they are experiencing that they know they desperately want to change.

Now, of course, as they learn from you, as they follow you and as they maybe go into your paid programs or courses, they learn that, "Wow, my acne is really connected to my gut. Interesting." Or, "I had no idea my acne might be caused by my hormones or my blood sugar imbalance." But you cannot lead with that because if you're like, "I help you heal your acne and clear up blood sugar imbalances." They're going to be like, "Well, I don't have blood sugar imbalances. I have acne." So you really need to meet them where they're at. Niching is so important. If you decide to focus on anything in the next week for your business, I want you to audit your niche. I want you to look at it and determine like, "Is it clear? Is this actually speaking to someone?" And if you're confused and you don't know, please send me a DM on Instagram. I will help you with your niche. I've been helping a lot of health coaches with their niche lately, but I will tell you if that is a good niche or not. My handle is Kendra Perry Inc.

So please do send me a message and let me help you because if your niche is not clearly defined, that'll be that big blocking factor towards you having a successful business. Okay? Okay. All right. If you liked this episode and you are currently listening on your smartphone, make sure to screenshot it, share it to your Instagram stories, tag @360HealthBizPodcast as and let us know your biggest take home and that will help us know that you like this content and you want more just like it. I think that's all I got, so we will see you in one week from today with the next full episode, and in two weeks with the next is Biz Bomb. Bye guys.

Email Marketing Part 2: Why You Need a Nurture Sequence

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Welcome back to part 2 of our chat on email marketing! In part 1 we discussed WHY you need an email list in the first place and which email marketing platforms we like to us. We also discussed what your email should include and some click-worthy subject line ideas.

In today’s episode we dive into two very important topics when it comes to emails – the first part is the boring, but VERY important legal talk around emails - including who you can legally email  and opt-in protocol (and opt-outs for that matter)!

But the majority of our episode we are talking about the fun stuff, the sexy stuff…the stuff that will make you money!

That’s right we are talking email marketing nurture sequences! A nurture sequence is basically a series of automated emails that you send to new subscribers to help them get to know you and build a trusting relationship with them. The sequence usually starts when someone signs up for a lead magnet (like a cheat sheet, freebie, etc.) – they receive your first email which is the freebie..and then what?

If you start selling your product or services to them immediately guess what will happen? You’ll scare them off!

In this episode, we talk about the first 6 emails you should send before you even try selling to your new subscribers. This includes telling your story (sometimes over the course of a few emails), creating cliff hangers, establishing a schedule, tooting your horn with some testimonials, creating engagement with a “reply to this email”, plus more email marketing tips and tricks.

We also chat about micro-conversions and selling your method. What are those you ask? You’ll have to tune in to find out!

Be sure to listen to Part 1 of the Email Marketing series here.

Still not sure where to start? Download our Email Nurture Sequence template here to help you out.

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Kendra's HTMA Expert Course is now open for enrollment! The course starts February 10. Enroll now:


Christine H.: Hello, and welcome everyone, to this new episode of the 360 Health Biz Podcast. Today, you have your two favorite hostesses with the [most-esses 00:00:11] in the Health Biz Podcast world. Miss Kendra Perry from Canada, being snowed in right now. Then, Christine Hansen from Luxembourg, where it's actually pretty sunny for this, generally. We're really excited to be with you today, as we are recording our second episode on email. How to write your email, how to structure it. We already talked about it in the last episode, so check that out. Today, we're mainly going to talk about how to make it work for you to do sales.

Christine H.: Stay tuned, but before we dive deep into the nitty gritty of this, we have a lovely, lovely listener who we adore who left us a review. Here's what's been said about us.

Kendra Perry: Okay, so we have a review from Jennifer [Blaugh 00:00:58], and I hope I said your last name right, Jennifer. She is an FDM. The title of her review is, "Seriously on-point content." Thank you, Jennifer. She says, "I am a fellow FDM, and I am trying to ramp up my health pushing business. I've been listening to all sorts of podcasts and webinars. This one is legitimately chock-full of great content, relevant information and useful, actionable advice. Seriously great stuff. Thank you, ladies, for all your hard work." Well, you are welcome, Jennifer, and we fucking love you.

Christine H.: Yes. Yes, we do. We love this so much. My little heart is singing right now.

Kendra Perry: Yeah.

Christine H.: This is amazing. Thank you. We're going to do our best to spoil you rotten in this episode as well. As email marketing is a huge, huge thing. A tool that is not easy. I think a lot of it can go wrong, but it's also the first thing that a lot of us are confronted with. Today, we're going to basically pick up on our last conversation. To let you know, first of all, how can you stay on the legal side, and then how can you make people just give you their money like a buttery, sweet transaction leaving everyone happy? Kendra, let's begin.

Kendra Perry: All right. We're going to bore you a bit first, so stick with us. Then, we're going to get into the sexier stuff. We do want to address the legal stuff, just because it is really important. You want to make sure you're not breaking the law with email marketing. Then, we're going to talk about email nurture sequence. You may not know what it is. Actually, a lot of the coaches I've talked to don't know what it is. We're going to talk about what that is, and why you need one, and how to do it. We're going to give you a step-by-step process.

Christine H.: Yeah.

Kendra Perry: We're going to be talking a bit of the legal stuff. Christine is going to speak to the GDPR stuff, which is the European rules, because she's more familiar with that. I just wanted to speak to some of the Canadian and American rules. This is one thing that's across the board. You need to get people's permission to email market to them. If you have a bunch of people's emails from something else, and they didn't give you their email address knowing that you were going to send them marketing emails, you actually can't use their email. You're not allowed to do that. That's completely illegal, and it's against privacy. You don't want to do that. You always want to make sure that people know they're opting in, you have people's permission to use that email.

Christine H.: Yeah, so maybe to give you a concrete example, let's say you go to a networking event and you exchange business cards. You are not allowed to take those business cards and type that email address of that person into your email marketing software. First of all, it's not polite. People are going to be annoyed at you, because when it happens to me, I get furious. It's also illegal. Anyone who gives you their email address that doesn't explicitly say, "Okay, you are allowed to send me new, or regular updates," basically that's illegal.

Christine H.: The same is also, and i know that a lot of people do giveaways, or if you are having a fair, you have things where you can win something, and then the entry, not tickets basically, have the email address of the person as well. You do need to have it a disclaimer somewhere that really, clearly states that you are going to email them regularly. Otherwise, again, you're a criminal, basically.

Kendra Perry: You're a criminal. A way that I do this that makes it really obvious. On all my landing pages where I'm offering something for free, the button always says, "Join my list, and you'll get the free guide." It always says that so it's very clear that they're joining my list. Yeah, you just want to be really obvious with that, because I have come across the people who are like, "Oh, I have all these emails from my personal training clients. Can I use that?" I'm like, "No." You could email them and say, I'm going to be sending out emails on this. Are you interested? Do you want to be on this list? If they say yes, then you can use that email but you do need to get their permission first.

Christine H.: Exactly. The same is true, actually, when you do sales calls, or preliminary sessions or whatever you call them. The people who leave their email address there to get a reminder of a call, they did not accept to be on your email list. Unless you tell them that they are going to be added, and have a checkbox to ask them whether they are okay with that or not, you cannot just connect your scheduler to your email software, and then automatically add them. It sounds so easy, and it wounds like, "Okay, I'm going to get a little leads," which I agree, but it's not legal.

Kendra Perry: Yeah. Something you can do, like what I do, is I do add my clients to my email marketing list if I ever have to send communication to my clients specifically, but I exclude them from all the marketing emails. They're literally just getting the occasional email, like, "I just raised my prices. Here is the information. This is changing." Anything that's specific to client communication where I want to email all of them, but they don't get the marketing emails. That's really important.

Kendra Perry: Now, in terms of opting in, there is something called a single opt-in, and a double opt-in. The single opt-in is when you literally just put your email into that landing page, or that pop-up. Then, they automatically get the thing. A double opt-in is where they put their email address in, and then they get another email that says, "Confirm your subscription," or something like that, so they have to double opt-in.

Christine H.: They have to click on that.

Kendra Perry: Now, from what I can tell, and I know it was like this. I can't tell if it changed. I went online and did some research, but in the US you can have a single opt-in. In Canada, you have to have a double opt-in. If you're a Canadian, you're going to go with that double opt-in option, because that's the law. In the US, you can have single opt-in.

Kendra Perry: You can get this set up. All the email providers will have this option. You can turn it off, you can turn it on. It's usually just the clickable button anytime you are building out your sort of little email sequence, or little form. If you are in Canada, and I don't know if you know that in terms of Europe. Do you need a double opt-in?

Christine H.: I am not sure, to be honest. I don't think so, but I would actually check on that in a second.

Kendra Perry: Yeah, so we'll throw that in the show notes.

Christine H.: Yes, exactly, but I don't think so. I don't think you need the double opt-in necessarily, no.

Kendra Perry: Okay.

Christine H.: There's different statistics as well that show that if you have a double opt-in, the people who actually bother to click that link are going to be much more likely to actually engage with your emails.

Kendra Perry: Yes.

Christine H.: Even if it's not a requirement, it might be a good practice to already filter tire kickers who are just going to take space in your email marketing software. Just to make sure that you have primo material in there.

Kendra Perry: Exactly, yeah. I agree. Just that extra step, because a lot of people just get shiny object syndrome. They're just like, "Fuck yeah, I want to opt in," and they just opt in for all these things. Then, they never actually go to their email and check that, right?

Christine H.: Exactly. This is something which, actually we can talk about this right now. If you do this, basically what happens, when people fill in their email address and they click submit, or get now or whatever, you usually have a choice from your email marketing software to either just reload the form, or to send them to a different page. Whatever you choose is fine, but there should be a little message popping up, telling them to check their inbox, check their spam box or their junk folder, to make sure that they get that second email.

Kendra Perry: Yeah.

Christine H.: If you don't, people might just be frustrated because they think it's not working, when it's actually in their spam. We always recommend to personalize, and customize that, and already do that in your voice. If you're someone like Kendra and I, we would probably say, "Woop-woop," or something like that. You're good, now go over to your inbox and make sure that we didn't land in your spam folder. A sad face, something like that. Make sure you-

Kendra Perry: Yup. You bring up a good point there, and I think it's also a good point. You know, so many of you guys just have forms on your website? Then, when people opt in, nothing happens. I've seen a few websites where it's like, you get the thing but there's nothing that tells me what's going to happen next, and just so remember, they're giving away something that's personal. You need to make them feel...

Christine H.: Protected.

Kendra Perry: ... protected by saying, "Awesome. You're in. That guide, or that checklist is on its way to your inbox. It's going to be there in five to 10 minutes, so make sure to check your promotions or spam. If you have any issues, this is my support email where," you know.

Christine H.: Mm-hmm (affirmative)-

Kendra Perry: Sometimes, forms are broken, right?

Christine H.: Yeah.

Kendra Perry: If you have someone opt in for something and they don't get the thing, and they have no way of contacting you to be like, "This didn't work," that trust is gone.

Christine H.: Yeah. Agreed.

Kendra Perry: Just saying.

Christine H.: Totally. The second thing that I find will distinguish you from the crowd is that confirmation email that is coming then. A second email that is going to be, "Click here to..." I don't remember what they say, it's a confirmation email. Usually, your email software will allow you to customize that, so brand it. Brand it according to how the newsletters are going to look like afterwards. Write it in your lingo. Tell them, "You are our favorite. Now, just click this little thing and we're good to go." Something that you would say so that people immediately see that you're not a robot, and it's not just tack, but it's actually you behind your business. I find that really makes you stand off on the crowd. You can make it a bit funny.

Kendra Perry: I would say the other thing too, is in the subject line, what I always put is in brackets, "Download," and the name of the thing.

Christine H.: Yes.

Kendra Perry: Make it really obvious so they're like, "I'm downloading this free sleep guide," and it says, "Download, Free sleep guide." I'm not searching for it. It's not some fancy email subject that I don't recognize as what I just downloaded. That's really important. In that confirmation email, this is not a time to sell, this is not a time to offer anything. Literally, keep it short and sweet. Say, "Thanks for downloading the guide, this is awesome. Here is the download button." They're just warming up at that point, so it's not time to pitch a course, or pitch a service, or even your free call in that email.

Christine H.: No, no, no. Don't do that.

Kendra Perry: Before we get into email sequence, could you just briefly speak to, Christine, just the GDPR [inaudible 00:10:59]? I think that's important for, I think everyone. Not just your emails, right?

Christine H.: No, I agree. Yeah, so GDPR has been creating [inaudible 00:11:05] especially in that two years ago when it came out. Basically, what it is, you need to know that it was a huge problem that too many people got spam emails. The European Union basically made it illegal to collect data. Well, illegally as we've discussed it now, but also certain types of data, and you have to have a structure within your company. There needs to be a designated person who is taking care of that. You need to make sure that you're never going to give the information that you gather from your people to a third party. All of that was created, and thrown out there. It's easy if you're a huge company and you have a legal team taking care of it. If you're a small business, it can be completely overwhelming.

Kendra Perry: Yeah.

Christine H.: In the beginning you had all worst case scenarios. Truth is that there hasn't been a single legal case done yet, so there is no previous court case yet. Chances that someone is going to pick on your little company to be the first one is very, very unlikely. There's different things that you can do. The double opt-in is one thing that is going to protect you straightaway. The other thing that you need to do is, you need to have a little checkbox below the opt-in form, which means there's a little box that people fill in their email address. We've discussed this before, if you want to add their first name or not. This little box, they need to check the box where they really give you consent through that. There again, the wording can be, "I agree with terms and conditions," or, "I agree with your privacy..."

Kendra Perry: Policy?

Christine H.: Policy, privacy policy. You need to have that on your website. There needs to be a link to that on your website to that privacy policy. Every website needs to have that, and you can have templates that are GDPR compliant. It's just really to cover your ass, basically. To make sure that their email is just for you, and your company and not for anyone else, and so forth.

Christine H.: It used to be a bit tricky, because obviously the emails are being stored on your email marketing service. The questions was, is that a third party seller or not? I think no answer has really been found yet. There's a lot of nitty gritty on that. I'm not a complete legal expert on it. What I can recommend you to do, and I know that the Being Boss team, they have a podcast which I actually recommend, they have done tons of research on that. They spend a lot of money on that, and they have a great podcast episode on that too. Go, and check that out.

Christine H.: For the rest, I invested in a GDPR template that was developed by a lawyer here in Europe. I think she was German, I'm not sure. It's basically the linguistics, it's highlighting when you have to fill in your own things. It will ask you to have an office designated for all of this, but if you're a one-person company obviously you are going to be the officer. It just means that there needs to be a person that is good to be responsible for the information that you are collecting.

Christine H.: I think the little checkbox is the most important one. Personally, I also have to say that I'm a slacker, and I haven't done it. I also have to say that different email software is so much better at this than others. I know that MailerLite has one that is GDPR compliant. You just tick that box when you set up your opt-in box, and you just say you want your advert, and it is filled with GDPR compliant lingo. You basically don't have to worry about it.

Christine H.: The negative thing is that they can be off-putting to people. Every step that you're adding to the process of people giving you their information is going to put them off. It's literally the easiest, the quickest is the best. I also have to add that, of all the European websites that I've seen so far, there's not many that are actually doing this. Literally, none.

Christine H.: I think it was just a huge scare two years ago or so, and right now people are breathing again and it's loosening up again a little bit. What I would suggest you do is to have a double opt-in and to have a little checkbox next to your email box to make sure that people know that they are giving you their information, and where you say that you won't sell it, or that you won't share it with a third party. Then, you're good to go.

Kendra Perry: Yeah. Yeah, and I just want to mention that-

Christine H.: Have a privacy policy.

Kendra Perry: Yes.

Christine H.: Sorry. That's one thing that you need to have.

Kendra Perry: You do, and especially if you're running any ads. Facebook will disapprove your ad if you're sending people to a page that doesn't have a privacy policy, or doesn't have a GDPR link.

Kendra Perry: The other thing I just want to mention is, this is something that applies to more than just Europeans. If anyone is opting in from Europe to your page, that technically makes you need to have [crosstalk 00:16:01].

Christine H.: ... reliable.

Kendra Perry: Yeah. If you don't know where your people are coming from, and I guarantee there might be one person, a few people, or even an American or a Canadian who are just in Europe traveling.

Christine H.: Exactly.

Kendra Perry: I think the double opt-in is a good way to go.

Christine H.: It's a good way to go. It's not compliant... That's not what I want to say. It's not mandatory. It's not something you need to do, but I just think you are covering your bases a bit if you have it, and make it fun. It's a pain-in-the-ass, but make it fun.

Kendra Perry: Definitely.

Christine H.: That would be a good one. All right.

Kendra Perry: All right, let's stop with the boring shit.

Christine H.: We already gave some good shit there, on how you can it less boring, so that's fun.

Kendra Perry: Okay, we're going to be talking about email nurture sequence, which is basically... it is a sequence of emails that you send new subscribers. The whole purpose of it is to build trust, to have them get to know you and your sort of method, and also how you can help them, right?

Christine H.: Mm-hmm (affirmative)-

Kendra Perry: I can't remember the touch points, but usually before people invest, I read it was 36.

Christine H.: 36?

Kendra Perry: Yeah.

Christine H.: Crazy.

Kendra Perry: Yeah, that's what Chalene Johnson said on her Build Your Tribe. She said it used to be much smaller, but these days it's about 35 or 36.

Christine H.: Oh, wow.

Kendra Perry: I might be a bit off on that number. What that means is that they need to see 36 different pieces, or come into contact with your brand 36 different times before they're ready to buy. That might be that they listen to a podcast episode, and then they receive an email. Then, they see a social media post, and then they get another email. That's the thing. That's why it's really important not to pitch too quickly, because it can people a really long time to warm up. I had two touch points with certain people and me, personally, I invested really quickly in certain people's things because I just connected instantly, so it's not going to be true for everyone. For some people it's going to be longer, right?

Christine H.: Yes.

Kendra Perry: That email sequence really just helps them get to know you, and decide if they like you and just get familiar with who you are, what you do and how you can really help them. I've seen email sequences be three emails, I've seen it be up to 30-40 emails. Again, it's going to be different for everyone.

Kendra Perry: Again, it depends on your business. You may have to test different lengths. For new people who haven't done this before, I usually recommend a six-email sequence. I think that's enough time to sort of tell your story, introduce your method and gain a bit of trust with your audience. We've already talked about email number one, which the only purpose of email number one is to deliver your free offer, and also, I say, set the stage.

Kendra Perry: I always tell people, if you're sending them another email, I just say, "I'm going to be sending you a few emails over the next couple weeks that's going to teach you about this, this and this." Tomorrow, or two days from now, or in an hour from now, or however you set it up, "I'm going to be sending you an email titled," insert subject line, "Stay tuned for that email."

Christine H.: Yes, great. [crosstalk 00:19:09] The other thing I really quickly want to mention is that we call it either email nurture sequence, or an email funnel. I just want to say that these two things are the same. It's just different lingo in marketing. Then, also it really depends, as Kendra said, on what your business is. If you want to sell products, if you want to sell coaching services, which I guess most of you do. It also depends on the price point. What do you want to sell at the end of your funnel?

Christine H.: The first thing you should do, and I think we were already talking about that when we discussed the freebie, which is people actually want, and give you their email address that triggers all of this. It has to be created with what you want to sell at the end of the sequence, right?

Kendra Perry: Yes.

Christine H.: We talk a lot about this, but you need to have the goal in mind first. Then, reverse-engineer it. What is your end goal so that you can seed, slowly and subtly, without shoving it down their throat. Have that in your mind first, and then email number one in this sequence, or funnel would be where you just deliver the freebie. That is basically the end. If you reverse-engineer it, it's actually the last step, so to say. That's just a little clarification for newbies who have no clue what we're talking.

Kendra Perry: Yeah, and that's really important. It's like, if you ultimately want to sell them a program that helps them boost their energy, then your email nurture sequence shouldn't be about gut health, right?

Christine H.: Yes.

Kendra Perry: You keep coming back to one thing. This is the most important thing, and we know that most coaches are struggling with this. You need to have a clearly-defined niche. Not two, not three, not four, not 10. One niche that people actually know what it is. I see people niche-ing in metabolism. Nobody knows what metabolism is.

Christine H.: Nobody knows what it is.

Kendra Perry: Right?

Christine H.: Yes. Don't forget that your lingo needs to be what they speak, not what you learned in your education.

Kendra Perry: Yeah, absolutely. I know health coaches are super nerdy, and you want to prove that you're smart, and that you're knowledged. If you speak in words that they don't understand, there'll be no connection. You just want to make sure that everything is connected, which is a really good point.

Christine H.: You can have several of those sequences, or funnels in your business. If you have, for example, products, if you have a supplement line, or if you have DIY programs, or Evergreen programs, you might have different opt-ins on your website that will lead to those different product [inaudible 00:21:35]. You would have different funnels in your email marketing software.

Christine H.: What we're going to teach you today, you can basically take those emails and just personalize them to that product, or service that you are designing. The content, their personality, or the feeling that [inaudible 00:21:53] about is going to be the same.

Kendra Perry: Yeah, and guys, I have a template. I have an email nurture sequence template, and we will link to that in the show notes so that you guys can get access to that. I think that'll be really helpful.

Kendra Perry: In your nurture sequence, let's say we've delivered the freebie. You're going to send them another email, and you might send it an hour later, you might send it a day later, you might send it two days later. It depends, and you may have to play with that. You can set this up with any email marketing platform. This is going to be called an automation, I believe, in most email platforms.

Christine H.: In automation, or workflow I've seen it as well.

Kendra Perry: Yeah, right. I think I've seen it as workflow too, yeah. The first email that you sent after that confirmation email, this was email number two... You want to tell them your compelling story about either why you struggled with your own health that's related to your niche, or maybe why you're so passionate about it. I guess not all of us have personal stories with our niche, but if you do have a personal story, tell it. If you don't, there's obviously a reason why you decided to niche in this, and you obviously feel passionate about it for a reason. Tell that story, and you want to make it compelling, okay?

Christine H.: Mm-hmm (affirmative)-

Kendra Perry: People want to know your story, but you also want to refer back to them as much as possible.

Christine H.: Yes, certainly.

Kendra Perry: I like to do, can you relate? Does that make sense? Have you had that experience? Is this familiar? Always coming back to them. You really want to spend some time on this. You want to make sure your story is compelling. Then, what I do with this is, I basically end the email in the middle of the story climax, or that most dramatic part of the story. That's going to be... I think I've heard it called a few different things, and I'm gapping on it, but literally it's that darkest point, or that vague transition point in the story where everything changed. Usually, we can tell a story somehow in that way, where you maybe were interested in health and then suddenly you realize, you're like, "Oh, my God," or in your own personal story you were like, "I was struggling so hard, I hit rock bottom. Then, I discovered this thing."

Kendra Perry: End that story in the middle of the climax so they're like, "Oh, my God, I need to know what happens next." Then, you're going to say, in one day, in two days, in three days, whatever, "I'm going to send you the next email titled..." Give them the title, "where I'm going to share this, this and this." The rest of your story. Yeah.

Christine H.: Exactly. That's something that happens too much, and it depends, I guess, whether your clients are confronted with this a lot or not, I personally can see through this now. I don't like it if I get too many emails at once. Yeah, sometimes I recommend to start with one a day, and then space it out every two days. I like that, actually, but just tell them in a couple of days you're going to get the next [inaudible 00:24:42] or something like that.

Kendra Perry: I think I send my note every two days. That seems to work for me.

Christine H.: I think that's polite. Yeah, exactly. The other thing that you can do is, while you are talking about your story you can already sprinkle in a testimonial. What you can say is, which later on have my client X, Y, Z with their da-da-da. It's just going to be read fluidly. People don't really realize that they've read this testimonial already, but they are ready to connect with you with success stories about their problems. That's a good way of doing it. Then, I think what we do a lot in our emails is, can you relate, or if you have a question reply to me now. Just say, "Reply to this email," and actually those people do that.

Kendra Perry: Yeah, and I do that in pretty much every email I send out. I say, "Reply to this email and let me know." It's great, because if they actually do reply to that email, your emails are probably never going to end up in their spam, or promotions ever again, which is great in terms of deliverability. You can also get a lot of research. You can learn a lot about them. I store all these email replies in my Gmail, and then when I'm going to writing a sales page, or creating some sort of training I literally go through, and I look at the words they're using, and how they're describing their problem. You can actually learn a lot about them. Then, people are pretty excited when they reply, and then you actually reply back and help them.

Christine H.: Yes. Exactly.

Kendra Perry: They're like, "Oh, my God, I can't believe you responded." That's a really good way to do that. Now, I often add that in a PS. I'll be like, "PS: Reply to this email with," blah-blah-blah, or at the end of the email. Then, in your email number three, that's where you're telling the part two of your story, where you're basically telling them exactly how you solved your problem, or you solved someone else's problem. You basically teach them how you're going to show them to do the same with their problem.

Kendra Perry: You just sort of pick up on that story, and then what you want to do is, again, tell them, "I'm going to send you another email in two days," or whatever and, "This is the title of the next email."

Christine H.: Yeah.

Kendra Perry: Yeah.

Christine H.: Those would be a couple of things. Run through your sequence, and I'm going to go and do other things as well, so we're going to see.

Kendra Perry: Yeah. All right, so email number four, I call this Aggravate the Problem and Surprise Them. Remember, they have a problem, I'm just going to use fatigue as an example. When I say aggravate the problem, you really want to make them feel like, this is a problem. I'm tired all the time. I wake up and I'm tired. I walk through the day like a fucking zombie because I'm exhausted. I come home and I'm even more tired. This is causing me pain. I'm missing out on all these other things I want to do in my life because I'm so fucking tired. You really want to speak to those pain points. Pain points are basically the problems that your ideal client has. If we use fatigue as an example, it might be, "I wake up in the morning and I feel like shit, even though I slept for eight hours." That's a pain point, right?

Christine H.: Mm-hmm (affirmative)-

Kendra Perry: "I crash in the middle of the day at 2:00 PM, and I need to have a nap." That's a pain point, right?

Christine H.: Exactly.

Kendra Perry: Try to think of all those issues that they have in relation to the one bigger problem that they have.

Christine H.: Great. Okay, surprise them.

Kendra Perry: With Surprise Them, it's kind of like empower them that they have the power to change their situation. That's how you surprise them, because they may have been told by doctors that, "You're just a middle aged woman, and you're just getting older," right?

Christine H.: Mm-hmm (affirmative)-

Kendra Perry: They've probably been disempowered with their health. They may not actually really know, or feel that they can change their problems. Surprise them by telling them that, "Hey, your health is your responsibility, and you can change this. I changed this, and I've changed this in all these other people I've worked with," if you have. You're surprising them to be like, "You know what? This is in your control, and you can change things." That's how you surprise them.

Kendra Perry: I also like to throw in there to tell them it's not their fault. You know? You don't want them feel bad.

Christine H.: Yeah. Oh, my God. Yeah, huge one.

Kendra Perry: Most people have been given terrible information about their health, or they've been told...

Christine H.: This is it.

Kendra Perry: ...You're just a woman, this is normal, you're just getting older. Oh, it's because you're in your late 30s."

Christine H.: Exactly. Here's your diagnosis, now live with it, you know?

Kendra Perry: Yeah.

Christine H.: Exactly. Just saying, if you don't have that story... For example, I don't have personal stories, I use my clients' stories. I would, for example, describe what they tell me when we are on our first call together. Especially with them, I really use similar language. Then, for the surprise factor I would say something, "What he didn't know," or, "What she didn't know was that..." Something that I know when I tell it to my clients their eyes light up, and they're like, "What?" This is actually one of these little things that will already make people feel like, "I knew that there was a link there, but nobody believed me," something like that. That's the surprise element. I just use someone else's story and it works really well. You can write a beautiful narrative.

Kendra Perry: Yeah, and I love that you're saying narrative. People really connect to stories. Stories are very much in our DNA. Our ancestors shared stories to spread information. If you can make it like a story, then people are going to be really engaged, and really into it. Then, always at the end of this email you tell them the title of your next email coming, and when you're going to send it.

Kendra Perry: Then, in email five, this is where I like to devote a entire email to a testimonial. Where you share, and if that person has given you permission to use their image, put an image in there. Just tell the story. The whole email is of [Gemma 00:30:36], who was able to reverse her fatigue even though she'd been diagnosed with chronic fatigue, and had it for 10 years, right?

Christine H.: Yeah.

Kendra Perry: How were they able to solve it? Using your particular method, right?

Christine H.: Exactly.

Kendra Perry: Yeah.

Christine H.: Perfect.

Kendra Perry: Again, if you don't have one yet, you could use yourself if you have that personal information, or you could use a friend, a family member, a mentor. Someone who... just anyone.

Christine H.: Yeah, yeah, yeah. At this point, you can actually include your first more pointed call to actions. What that means is, ask them to do something. Before my email sequences were, at the moment I don't have one because I'm too lazy. I am going to do one for this year, and I'm going to record it so stay tuned, I'm going to accomplish that. In the beginning you don't ask them, you just give. You literally just give them. You give them your best story, and something you can maybe do is, "Oh, by the way, here is one of my most popular blog posts. Maybe this can help you to get started straightaway." Something that you already have, they can just click through.

Christine H.: You spoil them, basically. You give them stuff, "Here's a free training that I did. Maybe this can be helpful," and it talks about what I've just talked about in the email. Then, by the time you have the email with a client testimonial, that's when you can actually start asking for something from them. Which could be, "Why don't you book a call and see? If you have questions, just reply here, or just book a call with me." I think this is a good time when you can slowly start to ask for something. Still, don't tell them about a paying program yet.

Kendra Perry: Yeah, I agree. Amy Porterfield calls this micro-conversions, which I really like. You can do this sort of through your email sequence, and my micro-conversions are always in the PSs. I'll be like, "PS: I have an Instagram account where I share business training for health coaches. Make sure to follow me if you're interested." Then, the next might be guests, have a YouTube channel, blah-blah-blah.

Kendra Perry: It's these micro-conversions where they're just small. They're not really asking much of anyone. There's just letting people know that they can click here, get more information. It gets them used to clicking. I always throw those in the PS. I throw them in pretty much any email that I sent out. There's always a PS that tells them to check to something like, "Do you know of a podcast? Check on my podcast. Subscribe if you're interested." Sometimes, people want to binge your stuff. They want more. They're loving it, and they want to see more of your content. If you don't tell them it's there, then they're not going to go and find it on their own.

Christine H.: Exactly. You want to draw them into that rabbit hole of content of yours, into your universe, basically. You want them to gush about you. You want them to know you before you pitch them something. Oh, yeah.

Kendra Perry: Totally agree. Then, the sixth email, this is where I do the full pitch email. I don't just start by saying, "Hey, here's my thing, sign up." I actually explain the method, and how it has really helped me or the client. Again, you're seeding in more testimonial. You're like, "This is my method." I do recommend that, for whatever you do, create some sort of method, or some sort of step-by-step...

Christine H.: Always.

Kendra Perry: ... because there's certain people who make decisions based on knowing that there is a step-by-step process.

Christine H.: Yes, that there's logic behind the madness. [crosstalk 00:34:03] the process.

Kendra Perry: Yeah, they want to know that you can get them from A to B to C, and they want to know that there's a process. Not everyone makes decisions like that, but some people do, right?

Christine H.: Mm-hmm (affirmative)-

Kendra Perry: There's a really interesting assessment called Colby Assessment. I actually use this with my sales page, because it tells you how people make decisions. Some people are quick start, so they make really quick, impulsive decisions. They're just super fast. There is the fact finders, which need all the information. They need to do all the research. Then, there's the... I can't remember the name of it, the one that wants the A, to B, to C. I can't remember the name of it, but you can look it up. They're the ones that want the step-by-step. That's why I think, regardless of what you're doing, turn it into a method, or a step-by-step process.

Christine H.: Always, and it has to be yours. Your signature method. For me, it's the Sleep Like A Boss method. It's signature, it's proprietary. Get a patent [inaudible 00:34:58], actually, and trademark. That's what's going to make you money, and maybe give you the possibility to even license it out later. Just be savvy about this, even if you're at the very beginning. If you think you're onto something and you've created something amazing that works, just keep it in mind.

Kendra Perry: Yeah, or even if your method is, you're like, we talk about diet, then we talk about life sell. Then, we talk about whatever. That's still a step-by-step process, right?

Christine H.: Mm-hmm (affirmative)-

Kendra Perry: It doesn't need to be complicated.

Christine H.: No, no.

Kendra Perry: Just call it something, because that's what will draw people in. Then, it's easier because you're like, "This is my method. This is how it's helped. This is the process of my method, and this is the solution that I can help you achieve." You really want to focus on in the pitch email. Don't list out the features of your program, and what they're get. Features just meaning, you get a 60-minute consult, and then you get access to this app. Then, you get a Facebook group. Then, you get testing, or whatever. Those are features, and that's not what sells something. People buy because of the outcome you can help them achieve. You really want to go through, what are they going to feel like if they decide to invest in you? What's that going to look like? How is their life going to be better? How is their life going to be worse if they don't take this step, right?

Christine H.: Exactly. Exactly. Then, you literally just tell them, "Click here if this is for you," or something like that.

Kendra Perry: Yeah, and for a lot of you guys, I know a lot of you guys are doing one-on-one programs. You're just going to send them the link to your free sales call, or enrollment call, qualifying call, whatever you want to call it, where basically... We should do an episode on sales because I think a lot of people really fuck up sales calls. The sales call-

Christine H.: We will, we will.

Kendra Perry: It's not a health history. It's not a coaching call. It's literally you inviting them to see if they're ready to transform. You see if they're ready to change.

Christine H.: Exactly.

Kendra Perry: You just want to qualify them, and see if they actually are a good fit for your program, and if they're someone you can help.

Christine H.: There's something you can do as well, especially with health coaching. Our clients are not necessarily who are like us, or like Kendra and I at least, who do a lot of marketing geeking. You can actually tell them that you only work with a certain number of people, or are opening a certain number of spots. With me, that's actually true. I only work with five people at a time. Even if it's not true, it will help those who are on the fence finally prioritize.

Christine H.: It's not just like I'm pokering, or I'm lying. Essentially, [inaudible 00:37:22] game time, and this is time to change your health. When you just tell them, "I'm opening up my schedule for a certain number of people, so make sure you don't miss it," I think it still works. When I'm interested in something and I stop someone and I see it, it still triggers that FOMO in me, you know?

Kendra Perry: Yeah, yeah. I think people need urgency, right?

Christine H.: Yeah.

Kendra Perry: They need a bit of pressure to take action. Don't be upset if, at this point the person still doesn't book the call. Remember, we said 36 touch points, right?

Christine H.: [crosstalk 00:37:59] sometimes, yeah.

Kendra Perry: Exactly. It will depend on how many touch points they've had with you before they opted in for your freebie and went through the email sequence. Maybe they were only four in, so they might not be ready yet but that's why we're sending out weekly emails. That's where you want to email your list weekly, and provide them with value. For each one of those emails that you send out, that's another touch point. It's getting them closer to the point where, if they are interested in investing, that they're going to want to invest.

Christine H.: Agreed.

Kendra Perry: Yeah. If you want to get into more complex stuff, if people don't book the sales call you can follow up with more emails, reminding them or whatever. Obviously, that gets a bit more complicated, and I know a lot of you guys probably just have really basic email marketing skills. Just so you know what the possibility is, right?

Christine H.: Mm-hmm (affirmative)-

Kendra Perry: You can track people who book a sales call, and then follow up. Sometimes, people are interested, but then their baby starts crying and they go to the baby, and they've forgotten about it. It happens all the time, right?

Christine H.: Exactly.

Kendra Perry: What do we have? Four-second attention span? Less than that of a goldfish? There you go.

Christine H.: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely, agreed.

Kendra Perry: Yeah.

Christine H.: I think that's it. Is there anything that we have?

Kendra Perry: Yeah, so that's our email nurture sequence. We will make sure to link to the template, if you guys want to grab that in the show notes, which basically just explains out all these sort of steps in detail that you might find helpful. Then, you can be on our email list.

Christine H.: Exactly. There's different things. I know that we say a lot of the times that I'm actually just [inaudible 00:39:29] playing around with it at the moment. I'm seeing staggering numbers, but just like before we said you shouldn't use any pictures or so forth in your email. Actually, I'm using a new software that's called FlowDesk, and it's really pretty. It's in beta, so it's not sophisticated, it doesn't have bells and whistles yet, but it's beautiful. I have to say, my conversion is up in the 50%s, which is a lot, but you make conversion. It's doing really, really well. I know it's glitchy with other people sometimes, but it's actually shifted my perception on whether you should use photos or not. I can see that my crowd really likes, and responds to pretty, which makes sense because my whole branding is built on doing that [crosstalk 00:40:16].

Kendra Perry: I always recommend to keep images out of that first confirmation email. Right?

Christine H.: Oh, yeah. Don't do it on the first one.

Kendra Perry: That's when they're not engaged. Later on, once people have gone through my email sequence, and then I'm sending them weekly emails I might actually have images in those, because at that point they're engaged. They've opened up a few of my emails and told their email service provider that actually this is not spam.

Christine H.: Exactly. It looks just beautiful. We get so many ugly emails, and just having something pretty in your life, it's just going to help them to at least have a longer glance. Then, what I like about this one is actually that you have a little Instagram feed of your last three posts at the bottom. Which I really like, because it gives you an insight into what you do. It's just more personal, and I feel that as coaches we sell based on emotion. We sell based on, yes, people want the logic, but the first thing they're going to see is whether they can connect with you.

Christine H.: It's a bit of a different game than when you're selling an Etsy store or something like that. It's a different ball game. You have to keep that emotion in mind, which is also why the sequence we've just presented is based so much on story. Much more than if you sell underwear, or I don't know, something else, a product. This is just why it differentiates a bit from what you've seen in other podcasts, or marketing courses or so forth. It's just what we see works well with the people we want to help.

Kendra Perry: That's great. Is it an app that you use to add your Instagram feed into the bottom of the email?

Christine H.: It's just part of their software. It's just a drag and drop thing, and you just drop the Instagram feed and it connects to Instagram. It's a pain sometimes to use, switch it off, switch it on again. Then, every email that goes out, which is every week for me, has the last three posts of my Instagram feed.

Kendra Perry: That's awesome.

Christine H.: Yeah, it's pretty cool.

Kendra Perry: If you guys don't have FlowDesk, I'm sure there's a third party app out there that will do that, you know?

Christine H.: Yes. I'm sure there is.

Kendra Perry: I guarantee it. Yeah, I put all kinds of weird things into the bottom of my email. Especially during launches. Put little timers in there, and all that stuff.

Christine H.: Exactly.

Kendra Perry: I'm sure something exists. That's all we got for you guys, and I really hope that was helpful. If you are listening to this episode on your phone, make sure to screen shot this episode, share it to your Instagram stories and tag 360 Health Biz Podcast, and let us know your take homes. We would love that.

Christine H.: Love, love, love.

Kendra Perry: Yeah.

Christine H.: Anything new, leave us a five-star review, let us know. Yeah, thanks for listening, I guess.

Kendra Perry: Yeah. Again, we're always shocked when anyone wants to listen to us.

Christine H.: I know. You just think it's a conversation between the two of us.

Kendra Perry: Yeah.

Christine H.: [inaudible 00:42:58] It's weird.

Kendra Perry: We're out there.

Christine H.: All right, you guys. Have a wonderful day. Make sure you listen to these other episodes that we have, and talk to you very soon.

Biz Bomb – How to Easily Set up a Website

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Welcome to your Biz Bomb episode of the 360 Health Biz podcast where we provide a quick tip to blow your mind and help your business. And today’s Biz Bomb is about ​setting up your website!

​Even the thought of starting your website can be SUPER scary - where do you even start and do you need a degree in Computer Science and Graphic Design to create it yourself? You don't! In fact you can do all of yourself with these quick guidelines.

For started you have to choose which platform you want to use - there's Wix, Squarepace to name a few but our favourite is WordPress because they have really easy templates where it's simply photo here, form there, text here and BAM, you've got your website. It also allows you to add different plugins to suit your needs - like payment functions, surveys, video, etc.

You'll also have to pick your domain name through a hosting service like GoDaddy, HostGator or SiteGround. Once you've got these two things, it just a matter of putting the two together and Christine has a great tip in today's episode if you're having trouble with this.

If you're listening to this on the podcast and you found this helpful, just screenshot this episode, share it to your stories, mention @360healthbizpodcast, and we will share it to our stories. Just let us know in that story, what were your biggest take-homes and did this work.

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Kendra has opened enrolled for her HTMA Expert Course! Interested in learning how to interpret hair tissue mineral analysis? Learn more here:


Hello everyone and welcome to the 360 Health Biz podcast, Biz Bomb. And today I want to talk to you about very quickly how I set up my websites. So my first business was then it turned into I also have the domain, the Holistic Sleep Institute, Women's Divine Sleep Summit was one of mine. I set up quite a few website in my time and here's what I learned, no matter uno, try to get everything at one service, meaning your domain and also your hosting. How does this whole thing actually work? So you have different systems. Do you have something like Squarespace or Wix where you get to domain and then you get your hosting, add that, and then you have your template for your website as well.

This is basically their platform and their builder, meaning that you use their tools to then afterwards, create your website and build it together. Photo here, form there, text here. Now, the other thing that you can do is that you go with WordPress and WordPress is basically a program where you can then use a builder and it just, it has its pros and cons. I like it because it gives you a lot more flexibility of what you're going to integrate in your website because you have something that's called a plugin that's constantly developed. There are tons and tons and tons of plugins and they all have different functions. Whereas with Squarespace and with Wix, you will need to use whatever they provide. A more limited option. If you want to go with WordPress, and it's also better for SEO I found apparently, but what you do is you get your domain at one of those hosting services and there are different ones.

There's GoDaddy, this HostGator, and the one that I use over and over again is SiteGround. I love SiteGround. It is not [inaudible 00:01:54] here, but I just found them very, very reliable. They have a great chat, they have a great support system. I really enjoy them. So what you do is you get to domain there. Then you get to your hosting there, so you buy a hosting package and then when you go into your back office, which they call a C panel, you add WordPress. Now very quickly, and are two different services. is basically a blogging platform. You are going to install WordPress, which is this platform to build things in to basically manage your website and it's but your hosting service has that all set up for you. Now what you can do if you're totally new into this, that's what I do.

I open a chat, a live chat with them and then just tell them, help I want this domain, I see it's available, I've just bought it. How do I get hosting and how can I get WordPress back site and usually they will then set it up for you so you don't have to do anything. Literally, they will guide you through it. And most of the time if you help them and you tell them, I have no clue what to do, they would set it up for you up to the moment where you can just go to your website and log into the background and then start building.

And the builder that I use this Thrive Themes. There are many different ones out there, but that's the one that I'd like to use. I hope that this has given you a little bit of insight how this all works and what you need to do. I would recommend get your domain and your hosting at the same provider. I like SiteGround and ask them to set it up for you. That's what I would do. I hope this has been helpful and a little bit of clarification and I see you again next week.

Email Marketing Part 1: Why We Don’t Use Mailchimp & How to Write a Kickass Subject Line

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OMG – email marketing. This topic is a big one. So much so we had to break it into two parts. There are so many blog posts out there stating Email is dead or the secret is in your email list. But what does that all mean? We have seen it all when it comes to email marketing (and we’ve done it all!) so today we are going to shed some light on the right ways to email marketing.

First things first, when it comes to your email list – it’s quality over quantity. We seem to be living in this influencer social media mentality that the more followers you have the more money you’ll make selling your services. This is simply not true. You want to have quality leads on your list that are interested in what you’re putting out there.

That brings us to our next point – you absolutely cannot have a sustainable business if you are only putting yourself out there on social media. With the ever changing algorithms, you can’t depend on social media to get your message out there. Sure you can show up on social every day (hello, we do LOVE Instagram after all) but you also need an email list, an email nurture sequence and funnel to actually sell.

In addition to WHY you need an email list and social media vs email, in this episode we also discuss:
- our favourite email providers (hint: it’s not Mailchimp)
- email nurture sequences
- what should/shouldn’t be in your email
- how to create open-worthy subject lines

Tune in now for Part 1 of Email Marketing and be sure to mark you calendar for Part 2 coming up in two weeks. In the meantime, there are two other episodes you should check out that we mentioned in this episode. When you're done this episode, listen to Episode 50 - 5 Business Myths that are Hurting Your Health Coach Business and Episode 2 - How to Create a Social Media Ecosystem with Jamie Palmer

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Kendra is launching her HTMA Expert Course on January 28! Interested in learning how to interpret hair tissue mineral analysis? Join the VIP list for access to early enrollment and a discount code:


Christine: Hello everyone and welcome to this episode of 360 Health Biz Podcast. We are so excited to have you and you are on track again for an amazing episode today where we will talk about a subject. Oh my God, there will be a lot of ranting I predict because it's just been a pet peeve of Kendra's and mine, and we also have very different techniques, really I don't have any so stay tuned for that.

Christine: But before we dive into that, we are happy over the moon because we have reviews. So my beautiful, beautiful Kendra please take it away.

Kendra: All right, thank you for that great intro Christine. Yeah, I think we will be ranting a lot to day because yeah, I've been hearing a lot of crazy things lately from health coaches in regards to email lists and what they're doing to email market. And it's definitely very important thing to do, but also a huge struggle for most.

Kendra: But anyways, to read the review. So the title of the review is "Excellent Content", and it's five stars and it's by Health Coach in Training from Canada. So I love that, fellow Canadian. "Thank you for sharing your knowledge. Your content is relevant, easy to understand, and you're also so fun to listen to. Keep the episodes coming." Yeah!

Christine: I'm like you're fun to listen to.

Kendra: Thank you so much Health Coach in Training, and guys, if you do like our podcasts, because podcast analytics virtually don't exist so the only way for us to know if you like us or if you're listening is to actually leave us a review and let us know what you've found helpful so that we know we're on the right track.

Christine: Yeah, we would appreciate it. Yeah, and also if you have a wish list of things, like something that's not working in your business or that you've been given advice on where you're like, "Really?", just let us know. We'd love to take it apart.

Kendra: Yeah, you can just send us a DM on Instagram or 360 Health Biz podcast, you can just email us. It's just hello@360HealthBizPodcast. Either works, and just let us know because we are here to serve you and we want to know what is actually your struggle because we want to help you basically.

Christine: Exactly, yes. All right, and with that we are off to our topic today, which is email. Oh my God, the topic, I mean email, there's so many blog posts out there, "Is email dead," or, "The secret is in your email list." And I think one thing we can agree on is that the market has changed so, so much in the last four years I would say, especially again in the past two years. And some advice is seriously outdated. I believe there's still some truth in it, but there's been a lot of outdated advice as well. So we're going to look at all the different angles of things that we've experimented with and things that have worked well for us and that haven't.

Christine: But the first point, and this is basically we are doing a series on this because it's such a big topic that we don't want to overwhelm your little brains. So we're going to, this is the first part of the series. And the first point we are going to talk about is why you actually still need an email list. And my mind was blown because I had a conversation yesterday with Kendra and she actually told me about some people that are now working with us who have been given advice of just like don't even have an email list. And it's mind blowing to me. So Kendra maybe just tell a little bit about that example and then we'll take it apart and see why you really, really do need one.

Kendra: Yeah, so I think, I kind of feel like we're aware early on in our business that we need an email list, but we have no idea how to cultivate that. And I think we kind of get, maybe our egos get a little bit caught up because egos are a thing, and we start just wanting the followers on social media. So we try to build our Instagram following or our Facebook following and we get really obsessed with being on social media and having this following. And a lot of us have, I think when it comes to social media, like almost like an influencer mentality that we want to just grow this massive following, but we're not influencers, we're business owners. You don't actually need that many people on a following to be successful, but you do need to get those people off social media and onto an email list because it is a reliable way to communicate with them.

Kendra: You know, yes, people are overwhelmed with the emails in their inbox these days. Yes, not as many people function through email. Like me personally, I almost, I'm not really subscribed to anyone's email list. I just follow them on social media.

Christine: I do have a few, but the ones that I am subscribed to, I'm a loyal follower, and I think that's also a big difference. Four years ago email was still, it wasn't new but it was still exciting. So people had these huge email lists of 10,000 and 50,000 and 100,000 people on there. If you started just a couple of years later, you would not have been able to replicate that simply because the market has changed so much. So if you have for example a coach who's telling you that you need to have an email list of that many people or if you were going to a little bit more about it later, if you can only collaborate with people who have at least 50,000, it's outdated advice in my opinion.

Christine: We're going to look at it a little bit more in detail, but whatever the situation is, social media is great but it doesn't belong to you. And the email list is yours, it's yours to hone, it's yours to print, to prune. The people who are on there want to be on there, they are not unsubscribing once they do. Not your problem, but the people who are still on there, are on there for a reason, which is just the perfect topic for you.

Kendra: I agree, and like it's true. Social media algorithms are always changing and I know in the early days when Facebook first started making their algorithm changes, people lost multi-million businesses overnight because suddenly they couldn't connect or reach the people. So you don't want to base your business off of social media alone, it's a tool. But you do want to funnel people onto an email list.

Kendra: And from there you can communicate with them, you can nurture them. And me personally, I'm someone who launches courses and group programs. All of my launches have been directly correlated to the size of my list. My first launch, I think I generated about $2,000 and I had about like 300 to 400 people on a list. Next launch was about 7,000 to 8,000. I was probably about like 1,000 to 1,500 people. Next launch, at some point, like my most recent launch was about 60,000 and I had about 2,500 on my list. But it's interesting because you think to make 60,000 you'd need a much bigger list, but you don't. It's about people being engaged and it being the right people on the list because I think what's really important is just because you have a lot of people following you doesn't mean you're making money.

Kendra: A lot of those, for example, and I think you've had this experience Christine. Like you ran an online summit probably to build your list. If you ran this big summit, you probably got tens of thousands of people on the list, but after the summit because they actually weren't that interested in you or sleep or whatever it was, they all pieced. So just because you can get that many people on a list, doesn't mean that you can sell to them, right?

Christine: Absolutely. So I think it's a fine balance because people who are going to sign up to your list do so because you're basically bribing them. So as Kendra said before today, everyone is annoyed by emails. It's a stressful, inbox is a stress point nowadays so you don't want to have any spam in there. So it's just a different feeling that people have towards it.

Christine: So in order for them to sign up to an email list, you need to give them something. And we're going to go into detail into what that should be and what that should look like. And I think we actually have an episode on that.

Kendra: Yeah, we did an episode on lead magnets called Five Reasons Why Your Lead Magnets Sucks, or if you're converting or something like that. So listen to that episode, it's actually a great episode. It's funny because when I was going through, we recorded that episode and then I was creating a new lead magnet and I actually re listened to our episode because like, "What did I say? I need to remember my own advice." And I was like it's just funny that I'm listening to myself. [inaudible 00:08:15]

Christine: But yes, so go back and listen to that. We're going to connect that here on the show notes as well. But basically, so you bribe them with something free. So don't get this wrong. The people who, you have two kinds of people who will sign up. You have the person who's literally generally interested in you, who enjoys the way you are and who is already kind of playing with the idea to hire you for your services. And then you have the tire kicker. You have those who are already skeptic, but it's for free. And then you have a third category, which is basically people just wanting free stuff.

Christine: And I find that the percentage of those who are going to stay on your email list for quite a while is actually only growing in quite a small number. And the reason how I really figured it out is every three months I clean up, I purge my complete email list. So anyone who's not been active for three months or hasn't clicked on anything, even if they haven't unsubscribed, they're still on there but they don't engage, they don't read it, I purge them. I clean them out so they're not on my list anymore. And I have to say the number, it's not a lot of people, the amount that it grows. But those people are the real people that I really want to work with.

Christine: So you need to understand that when you do a summit for example, so just for those who don't know what a summit is. A summit is when basically you do an interview series with experts, talking about something related to your field. So I had the Women's Divine Sleep Summit and I had a whole bunch of experts all talking about their expertise in correlation with sleep. So we had sleep and candida, we had chronic fatigue, we had all kinds of different stuff. And it's free for a certain time, people need to sign up, give you your email. So there they get for free, they get access. And then in the end you are selling it because in truth is you have a lot, a lot of video, a lot of footage for a small time. So it's very, very practically impossible to consume it all during the time when it's free. So the goal is to make money on the back end by selling it and maybe up selling to other things as well.

Christine: So my experience is, and I'm doing this too, is I sign up for free, or they sign up for free. They try to consume as much as they can, and then afterwards you will sell them on basically paying to get the recordings forever. And a lot of them, some of them will still do, but I've found I grew my email list massively. So there was a lot of interest, but six months later my email list was pretty much back to what it was before the summit because those people were not really that serious about it. It was free, I made like $800. I didn't do, the summit sold for like $47. It wasn't expensive, so it was like, it was not bad, but it was not a lot of money.

Christine: So, but it was really eye opening to me because it was all these tire kickers basically just consuming for free, but they would never spend a serious amount. And I sold, of course, that was also like forty something bucks and it didn't sell. And I did a survey and they got something for free when they replied to the survey, why that was, was it time, was it price, was it insecurity, whatever. And pretty much unanimously it was, it was too expensive. So I already knew that ...

Kendra: You said it was $47?

Christine: It was $47.

Kendra: Well, holy fuck.

Christine: I know, that was eye opening to me. Now I do think it really depends on the subject that is [inaudible 00:11:49] to. So for me it was really clear, okay I'm not going to spend more energy on the people who are on my list right now, I'm going to keep it alive and I'm going to pitch from time to time, but I still have it because some people do only read my newsletter. It's really weird, but I think you have to engage with your email list from time to time to see whose actually on there. Does it have potential? Should you focus more in growing it? Should you pitch to it? I know that I don't get any sales from my email list. My clients, 90% of them are not on my email list, it's hilarious.

Christine: So that's my specific bit, my specific kind of knowledge of my list and how I focus. But for Kendra for example, it's the other way around. Her buyers are on her list and it converts very, very well. Whatever it is though, the people are interested in you. You have to grab them. You have to at least have the possibility to figure out whether they are money in your pocket, and if you don't, you will leave money on the table. So it is your responsibility to have them sign up and to at least try and to at least see if you can convince them.

Christine: And writing a weekly newsletter is not hard. Listen again to our first episode with Jamie Palmer and she has a whole system and then both Kendra and I implemented that way most of the time I think. So listen to that and you have content. But I think the most important thing is that the people on there are always faithful. So they will recommend you, they will have you in their heads. I know that they religiously read what I write. They might not come back as clients, but I know that if anyone is ever going to talk to them about a sleep issue, that they will recommend me because they are just fascinated by what I do.

Christine: So it's something that is in my opinion a non-negotiable to have. But the size of it does not matter, it really doesn't.

Kendra: I totally agree and I wonder if the difference between me and you is just between what we're selling, because you're selling this higher ticket like one on one and people are finding you and they're trusting you based on where you've been featured. You've been featured in all these big publications, you've been on TV, all that stuff. So like for people who have more money to spend, they're like, "I want the best and I see this chick everywhere." So you don't really need to be on your email list, right?

Christine: Exactly, plus you know pretty unanimously they find me at three am, they're exhausted. Those people are never going to read emails. They are just like, you know it's also my opt in, it's a training. Most people don't have the nerves to do that, I know that, I really am aware of it but it's a fantastic fucking good training. But I'm very, very much aware that it's not the perfect opt in, but it's just most people find me through Google and they book a call and I convert them that way. So it is a specific situation.

Kendra: Yeah, and it is a bit different because I'm selling courses and gap programs so I need higher volume. Like I need to, if I want to hit my goals with my [inaudible 00:14:47] course, I'm like I need to sell to 50 people. Next round I want to sell to 100. So it's just like, yeah I do need the list. And so I think regardless, you need an email list, you want to culture that. You want to nurture it because like Christine for example, you might shift your focus at some point. You might decide to go a different direction in your business and you want to have those people.

Kendra: But if you are someone, and I know a lot of coaches out there, you do want to have group programs or you do want to go have a course at some point, so you need to focus on this now. And for me personally, if I do look at a regret that I had with starting my business, I wish I started building my email list sooner because I didn't really take it seriously until about, I don't know, two years in or something like that. And as soon as I started working on it, I had six figures within a year. So it was very, an important part of my success.

Christine: I agree, and I think an email list is what drives the numbers in terms of when you sell mid ticket, mid ticket to low ticket. If you have something that's around like $1,000, the email list is the way to go. For me, a minimum is $7,000, I'm never going to sell that by an email. It's just, well I'm never going to say never, you never know, but it's just a different way of doing business. If I had that product, which might come at some point, I know that I will create more awareness, different opt ins, different funnels to get people towards that. At the moment, it's not my priority, but even if it's not my priority, I do take it seriously.

Christine: I have it in place and have the shortest funnel in the world. Funnel basically means that when people sign up what they say, I have one email that's it. So, but I do know that it's just because it's not my priority, but at the same time I love the people on my email list and I get really interesting feedback from them sometimes. So it's an important piece of the puzzle I believe.

Christine: And then another thing, oh God, was that you talked to someone about our master mind and basically they were ... What were they doing? They were selling things and they didn't have an email list. Exactly, yes, so they had ...

Kendra: Yeah, so this particular lovely lady who has so much potential in her business, very much excited to help her access that potential but yeah, she was selling this group program and selling quite a few spots, which is pretty impressive, but all off of social media. There was no email funnel, there was no, and no one was on the email list. So it's just not, that's not predictable or reliable because you literally, you can make this plan for this launch and maybe it went well last time, but if the algorithm has changed or you know I don't know, like things can be glitchy with Instagram. Like my swipe up feature stopped working for like two weeks randomly and it was just some like weird glitch. Or I've been blocked on Instagram before randomly, so it's just like it's not reliable. If you have those people and they did your group program, you want them on your list because potentially those people are going to buy from you again, right?

Christine: That's it, I was going to say. They are return customers, especially like the first thing. That's what I do. If I buy a course with someone, I will see what's coming up, what's next. And sometimes it takes me a couple of years, but then I will join their master mind or their conference or whatever it is, or their membership. So these people are very likely return customers and so you letting them go is just literally taking money and just like poof, throwing it in the air and it's gone. So really make sure that you keep those people somewhere safe, like where they belong to you, for sure.

Kendra: Absolutely. So let's talk a little bit about email list providers because a few of the people I was talking to as well, I was like, "Who's your email provider?" And they're like, "Gmail." I'm like, okay, that's not going to work. First of all you're limited. I think Gmail only allows you to send mass emails to 500 people. But if you're sending a mass email from Gmail, like whoa. Other email providers see all the email addresses and they think it's spam.

Christine: It's spam. There's no chance that you will even land in the spam folder at times, you will just be destroyed.

Kendra: Yeah, and I mean you don't want that because it's like we all get these email scores over time. And if your email score is bad, it just means that you're going to have really low open rates and you aren't going to open. So you can't keep people in Gmail. I don't even know if it's technically legal.

Christine: I don't think so to be honest. I really don't think that's something that mass emails is just that legal. I also want to say I don't think it's professional to be honest. Like I like, Gmail for me is private. Even businesses who have a Gmail address, I'm like, "You're skimping. Why don't you have a domain? Why don't you have an email address with your domain? You're a professional, take your business seriously." So it leaves a bitter aftertaste in my mouth to be honest.

Christine: So you should take it to what we call a CRM and that's basically a platform where you can manage your clients and email them in bulk in a way, but also you can design it in a very nice way. And we're going to talk about that a little bit too. And there are very simple ones, and there are very complicated ones. And my very first one was the most complicated one in the market that is designed for multi-million corporations and I had like five people.

Kendra: Was that Infusionsoft?

Christine: That was Infusionsoft. I was totally sold on it on my first conference that I went to. And I didn't know what pitching was, and I just, "Yes!" Oh God, I was so naïve, so don't do that, really don't do that. There's a lot of other options out there and we're going to walk through them. Fascinatingly enough both Kendra and I had the same experience that people set us up with the same one, it's Mailchimp.

Kendra: It's Mailchimp.

Christine: I don't know why.

Kendra: I think maybe it's the most common one or maybe it has good SCEO and it comes up. You know what I actually think it is Christine? I think it's because there's a free option and so people get stuck on because they can, and I started with that too because it was free and you're like, "Well I don't want to spend." But Mailchimp will drive you fucking crazy because ...

Christine: I think it is also one of the first ones so a lot of business coaches just recommend what they started with.

Kendra: Totally, totally. I mean I think MailChimp is good if you're like a brick and mortar business and you don't have funnels, you don't have different lists. You're literally just sending out a newsletter, like old school style. That's fine but the problem with Mailchimp is you'll quickly move past the free option, I think after 500 people you're over it. And it's so frustrating because things that should be easy are really complicated. They charge you based off of numbers and if you have three lists, so let's say you do essential oils and then you also do health coaching. So you have people who have opted in for essential oils and then people who have opted in for like health coaching stuff. But if you have one of those people and they're on the same lists, they are counted as two people in Mailchimp which is bullshit.

Christine: It's total bullshit, yeah.

Kendra: It's a huge pain in the ass.

Christine: In another system you would call it a segment and that's fine. You just pay for the one email address, it's always in bulk [inaudible 00:22:10]. So you get penalized in a way of how many people you have, and also the features that are unlocked. Like things, suddenly everything you have to pay for, like for certain, it's design features but it's also practicality features like timing, scheduling things out, trying A and B models. Sometimes you just want to just test which email style works better, and so you have features where you can send out the same email but in two different designs and test A and B and you will see where they click and that might be how you design the next email and so forth. So all of those are paid, like you have to pay for them and it gets really expensive after a certain time.

Kendra: It does, and in the end you're paying more for a shitty email provider versus something that is a lot more functional. I always tell my clients to go with ActiveCampaign. I've used ActiveCampaign personally. I actually moved from ActiveCampaign and now I regret it so I'm going to be going back to them. But they have like, their start up is like $15 a month. It's not expensive, I think you get $15 a month for up to 1,000 people. It's pretty user friendly, they have good customer service and it can handle all the complex funnels. So as you grow and you want to implement more complex funnels and whatever, it can handle it so then you don't have to switch, which is awesome.

Christine: They're great. Yeah, I'm using MailerLite. My list is tiny so it's free, but I like it. It has everything you need. It has landing pages, you can design whatever you want. You can put GIFs in there, you can segment, you can schedule, you can track it with Google. I really like it, I enjoy it. It looks good, it's easy to use and it's very affordable.

Christine: Another one that I know that a lot of people use is Drip, I think quite a few. And there was another one, Constant Contact. Is that possible?

Kendra: Constant Contact, yeah. And there's like GetResponse. A lot of people, a lot of the bigger marketers, and this is what I use is ConvertKit. Now ConvertKit is a higher price point and I pay about $50 a month for it, but it has all the capabilities of ActiveCampaign but there are some things about it that drive me insane. For example, like the emails, they're all just in a big overwhelming list. Like you can't, what I would love if there was a tab for like scheduled, drafts and sent. There's not, they're all just listed. So you have to scroll through and for my business, we have, I have my course, we have our membership.

Kendra: So we send out like so many emails, and then also we send out two emails to my list a week so it's like crazy. So you're like looking for an email and you're scrolling through and it's really overwhelming. And then when you want to update one and it's already been scheduled, you have to return it into a draft and then it just disappears into the list and you have to find it again. It drives me insane.

Kendra: And you can't do analytics on your emails. So it doesn't tell you which are your best performing emails and like anyways ...

Christine: What?

Kendra: Yeah, it's super weird. So I've sent them a bunch of like notes to customer service. I'm like, "Can you please do this?"

Christine: It's not hard, yeah.

Kendra: It's not hard, and I'm like this is super overwhelming. We send out so many emails and we cannot find them. And they were just like, "Yeah, we're not going to do that." So I'm like, "Okay, I'm going to move back to ActiveCampaign." And the whole thing about ActiveCampaign is they will do your transfer for you for free. So they will just do it all for you, so that's my plan. I have a bunch of stuff in there from when I was health coaching so I need to delete like 50 funnels in there and just edit it down because I don't want everything transferred over. But I'm like yep, ActiveCampaign rocks. See you ConvertKit. But anyways ...

Christine: No, I totally agree, I totally agree. And then all of them work pretty much the same way, it's like a drag and drop kind of thing. But doing like a side note on what you should include in your email, obviously it depends what you're selling. If you have products, yes, you need to have images, maybe a GIF and so forth. However, what we found that converts fast in terms of not being put into spam straightaway is to have nothing in your email, like literally just text. You also need the unsubscribe button, but I try not to have a single link in my email. I literally tell people if you want to get in touch, just reply to this email. I don't link it, the only link I have is the unsubscribe button, that's it. And I don't even use colors, it's black text. Sometimes it's a little bit of pink in there, but in general it's just black text. There's no fancy whatever-ish in them and no images and it's just, it looks I guess for algorithms, it just looks more serious and business-y versus difficult ads.

Kendra: Yeah, like even more just like a regular email. And you know, so what I was going to say what I found is if you have an email sequence, like a nurture sequence that's going out to people who haven't opened your emails before, you want to keep it as empty as possible so that it doesn't end up in their spam.

Kendra: But for example, with my membership, for people who open my emails and I know they're not going into people's spam because they've been opening my emails. Like we send out a newspaper with all kinds of images and links, but we know that people are opening them. So once you have people who are consistently opening your emails, you can start adding images.

Christine: You're safe.

Kendra: You're safe to do that, but right off the bat if it's like the first email that they're getting as a confirmation for your lead magnet, don't have an image, don't have a header. Just keep it super simple, be like, "Hey, super excited that you opted in. This is fantastic. I'm Kendra, you're awesome, I'm awesome. Here's the download link. And hey, I'm going to send you another email tomorrow. It's titled this and this is what I'm going to tell you in it," and that's it.

Christine: That is it. I love GIFs, I'm still loving GIFs. So I just had every email had like a hilarious GIF, which made me laugh. Like I don't know, I just think I'm hilarious with GIFs, but I can't do it anymore.

Kendra: I do too.

Christine: Yeah, but I can't do it anymore. It doesn't like, especially because my funnel is so short, it's just one email after that they get the regular newsletter. It's just I can't do it. But I do have to say it also saves you tons of time. It's just really easy, so but it's maybe something that's very different obviously because also the email providers will want you to use all of their features and bells and whistles which is super cute, but just from conversion perspective, from our pro advice it's not worth it. Keep it very simple.

Kendra: Totally, yeah, and so something you can do and this will work is so on the first email that I send someone, is I always ask them to reply to the email with something quick. So for example when I was doing fatigue, I would say, "Hey, I would love to know out of 10, where would you rate your fatigue? Just reply to this email and let me know." And for the people who do reply, if they reply, like your emails are probably never going to end up in their promotions or spam folder again, plus it's really good market research because you can see where people are at.

Kendra: Like I tell people, now that I'm doing business coaching, I'm like, "How would you describe your business? How do you feel about your business right now in one word? Reply to this email." And people will be like, "Overwhelmed," or like, "Frazzled," and so I can actually see the words that they're using and get an idea of what words I should be using in my sales copy, right?

Christine: Exactly, and I also find the first email is basically when they watched the training, have a couple of testimonials in there, and then I'm just basically, "What are your sleep struggles? Just let me know. I'm generally interested." And I don't get too many people replying, but there's always a few who are like, "Hey Christine, well this and this has happened." And then I'm saying, "Oh wow, let's get you this idea, but if you want to talk more about it, let's schedule a call." They schedule a call and they convert into clients ideally. And that's a seven pay client, so that conversion is really, really good. So it works. Again it's different and maybe if I had more people on the list it would be even better, like 2020.

Kendra: Even me, who I probably have like, I can't remember, 25 to 3,000 or something on my email list. I don't get a ton of replies, but I get some and the people who do ...

Christine: That's some.

Kendra: Yeah, and that's what matters right, is those people who do reply, like they're engaged. And you're going to send them ...

Christine: We love them.

Kendra: We love them, and we're going to send them like a super personal response. Don't get your assistant to reply, don't ignore it, actually write them back and be like, "Hey, thanks so much for replying. So sorry that you're feeling so like overwhelmed with your sleep. Stay tuned, or you can maybe check out this or I have a really good video that might help you here." Serve them, right, and those people are going to be like super into your shit.

Christine: Exactly, and especially if you do have a great collection of blog posts, which you should do and we talked about that in episode number one, I think it's ... Is it episode one or two? No, it is episode number one. And you can literally it will take you two seconds to just say, "I have a blog post on this. Just go there," or give the link. It's no work for you at all, but it's going to create these amazing fans that just love you in the end, so yeah.

Kendra: I wanted to say one more thing about email deliverability before we move on, and that's just your subject line. Subject lines will make or break your email open rates. So in terms of open rate, that's just means the percentage of people who are opening your emails. And your email provider, whatever it is, will tell you that. Now industry standard for health and wellness is about 20%. So that's what you're aiming for, somewhere around 20%, which seems low, but whatever, 20% okay. But a lot of people make terrible mistakes with subject lines. Like you know, like your subject line can't be like, "October Newsletter".

Christine: Oh fuck hell no.

Kendra: Or the other mistake I see people make is they actually give away the email in the subject line, you know.

Christine: Like what?

Kendra: They're like, something like "The gut is the main cause of your thyroid dysfunction".

Christine: Oh yeah, yeah, or yes.

Kendra: You want to like intrigue people right, and this is what's worked for me personally and you're going to have to test it. That's why the A B split function for subject lines can be really helpful, but what works really well for me is something that kind of sounds a little bit personal like, "Hey, have you seen this," or, "I did this and I really can't believe I did," or like, "Wow, that really pissed people off," or something like that where it's like intriguing but it's also somewhat personal. But again guys, don't do click baits. Don't just put something to get people to click, make sure it's still relevant to the email because if you use click bait you're going to just piss people off.

Christine: And I think, one thing, I'm just going to give you a little insider tip here. Something you can do is going to Laura Belgray's home page, it's called the Talking Shrimp. Sign up for her newsletter. You don't need to read them, but her headlines are fucking awesome. It's just, it's like, "I fought it and then this happened," or, "You know when you're super lazy like me, do this." I don't even know, but I have a folder which is just her newsletters and it's just when I need a really cool subject line, I will be inspired by that because it's just, it's open. She's magic, she's one of the most talented copy writers out there and you can just learn so much from how to do this just by seeing and looking at what she does.

Christine: So you don't need to copy/paste it. You shouldn't obviously, it should be your style. She has a very certain way of talking and that works because it's her. Obviously if it's not you, don't do it, but it is going to give you permission to really be yourself because you can see how she's totally herself and you certainly have permission too to be yourself. So go to the Talking Shrimp, Laura Belgray, sign up for her newsletter. Study it, have a look, she has an amazing course as well, sign up for that. I think it's pretty great value and everything she teaches is just fucking awesome.

Kendra: That's very cool.

Christine: So really, really go there and see what is doable for subject lines. It will change so much.

Kendra: Yeah, and another thing you can do is go in, if you have a Gmail account, go into your promotions folder because that's typically where all the promos end up and look at the subject lines and look at what intrigues you to want to open up something. Like when you see, "50% off," you're like, "Fuck no, because I don't want to buy anything right now."

Christine: Unless it's like some really nice lingerie. I'm like, "Sure," like [inaudible 00:34:29]. You know, but those are also, look at the business. Some commercial e-commerce store is going to have a very different way of marketing than a service provider. It's just different. So business coaches will be different than health coaches. So look at things where you click, where you're like, "Oh, I need this now. I didn't know I did, but now I do." That's who you want to be.

Christine: So we talked about quite a few things. We have more things coming up and that's on how to get people on your list, not that easy, but we will tell you how. We will also tell you the text stuff in terms of legal stuff, people, how to up the GDPR a little bit, and also how you can get people to actually see that you exist and then to sign up. And if you have any further questions, just please send them over to us and we'll talk about them too.

Kendra: Yeah, totally. Yeah, if you guys have questions, just connect with us on Instagram or shoot us an email Hello@360HealthBizPodcast or just 360 Health Biz Podcast for our Instagram account, or you can just email either one of us personally ChristineISleepLikeABoss, I'm KendraPerryInc because we are on Instagram all day long and we just respond to all our DMs, yeah.

Christine: We're totally addicted.

Kendra: We are addicted. We love Instagram.

Christine: Word. All right my dear people, we're going to launch episode, the next episode on this topic in two weeks after you listen to this. So either you can binge on it if it's already released, and if not you will hear it in two weeks. And that's it.

Kendra: So that's all we got.

Christine: That's all we've got for now.

Kendra: Peace out Holmes.

Christine: Peace.

Kendra: Bye.

Biz Bomb – The Best Way to Upload IGTV Videos

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Welcome to your Biz Bomb episode of the 360 Health Biz podcast where we provide a quick tip to blow your mind and help your business. And today’s Biz Bomb is about IGTV and a juice upload tip.

We love IGTV because you can record it with your phone and it's very low maintenance. Plus IGTV videos get more engagement and more reach than other types of content that posted on Instagram. But sometimes it can be a pain in the butt to upload and we’ve heard from a few people that they have this trouble too.

Like any great IT agent would suggest, close your programs and restart. That’s right, if you’re having troubles uploading your IGTV video (like if it’s taking FOREVER to upload or it stops uploading and says failed uploaded) then what you want to do is restart your phone and make sure that all your other apps are closed down.

When you are uploading a video from your phone, it uses a lot of power and can send your phone into overload (think of it like burn out when you’re stressed) so the thing to do is shut it down and restart. 9 times out of 10 this will work and you’ll be able to upload your video with ease after you restart.

If you're listening to this on the podcast and you found this helpful, just screenshot this episode, share it to your stories, mention @360healthbizpodcast, and we will share it to our stories. Just let us know in that story, what were your biggest take-homes and did this work.

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Hello there. Welcome to your Biz Bomb episode of the 360 Health Biz podcast. I am your host, Kendra Perry. Today, I'm going to give you a really quick tip about IGTV.

If you guys don't know what IGTV is, IGTV is basically Instagram's sister app. Not sure what you would call it, but it's basically an app that is both separate to Instagram and integrated in Instagram all at once. But basically, IGTV allows you to record up to 10 minute vertical videos, so video shot with your phone, and then you can actually add a preview into your Instagram feed, and also link to it from your Instagram stories, even if you don't have 10K followers and don't have the swipe up feature.

Right now, Instagram really wants IGTV to succeed. For that reason, they are actually giving a lot of engagement to people who utilize IGTV.

Now, I love IGTV because I can record it with my phone, it's very low maintenance. Anything minimal, anything easy that has good bang for its buck, I'm a big fan of. Right now, my IGTV videos get more engagement and more reach than other types of content that I post on Instagram.

But what you may have noticed, and I definitely came across this quite a few times and I've had a few people message me about this, is that you guys are having issues uploading your IGTV. Okay? I was having this issue over and over and over again. Basically, what you might experience is that you upload your video to IGTV and it gets to maybe like 50 or 60% and then it stops and nothing happens. Or you might get an upload error where it says it failed to upload. That might be really frustrating because you're like, "Man, I just made this fucking video and I really want to share it, but I don't know how to get it onto this app."

I get it, that's frustrating. This happened to me over and over for a year. Finally, I asked my partner, Ryan, my boyfriend, because he is a photographer, a filmmaker, so he knows a lot about video. He was like, "Kendra, delete your apps, close down all your apps, restart, try again." This is actually what fixed the problem.

Basically, if you are getting that upload error, what you want to do is you want to just restart your phone and make sure that all your other apps are closed down. Because anytime you're uploading video, it takes a lot of, I don't know if the right term is bandwidth, or power, or let's just call it juice. If there are other apps that are sort of distracting it or taking up power or speed, then that might actually interfere with your IGTV actually uploading.

It's actually amazing. I think something I have learned in tech that usually if something's not working, the solution is often just to restart. If something is fucking up on your computer, if something is messing up on your phone and you're like, "Can't figure it out," just try restarting. Because honestly, 9 times out of 10, that's usually what fixes the problem. This is also true for IGTV. I find you just need to restart your phone, make sure no other apps are open, and upload. That fixes the problem.

It's funny because I have access to this information because my partner is a filmmaker, photographer. I never asked him because I'm a dumb dumb. It's like I've been struggling with this for like the past year, where my videos are taking like two days to upload and I'm like, "Man, I just can't plan this. I want to share this content. This goes along with my launch, but I can't get these videos onto IGTV." Honestly, that simple little tip fixed all my issues.

So if you guys are having this issue with IGTV, just make sure to restart, make sure all your apps are closed down, and reupload. I almost guarantee that you will not get that upload error or that extraordinarily long upload time.

Okay, guys. I hope this was helpful. If you are hanging out on IGTV with me right now, because we actually post these episodes into our IGTV channel on video. So if you want to connect with me, or ask me questions, or let me know if this problem or this tip actually helped solve your problem, make sure to head to our account at, and go over to our IGTV channel and leave a comment.

If you're listening to this on the podcast and you found this helpful, just screenshot this episode, share it to your stories, mention @360healthbizpodcast, and we will share it to our stories. Just let us know in that story, what were your biggest take-homes and did this work. Let me know. I want to know.

All right, guys. We will come back to you in one week from now with another full episode of the 360 Health Biz Podcast. I will talk to you then.

Why You Must Prioritize BEFORE You Create a Plan with Kathryn Hofer

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It’s 2020 – a new year, a new decade, a new plan to tackle your business goals and excel! But where do you start when it comes to planning? We have Kathryn Hofer joining us on today’s 360 Health Biz Podcast episode to chat all about planning for your life and your business.

First things first when it comes to planning – you need to prioritize what is most important to you. And guess what? Sometimes that doesn’t always have to be business. If you are feeling unhealthy or having a family crisis – that is your priority because your business will not be successful if you are not able to dedicate your full self to it.

Kathryn gave us a history lesson on the word priority – that’s right priority, not priorities. It was a singular word for over 500 years until the 1900s when it became plural. So when did we go from having one important priority to having multiple? We are only one person and can only put 100% effort into one thing at a time. Thus priorities is simply unattainable.

In this episode, Kathryn discusses:
- approaches to planning, including the next step and project planning
- determining what your maintenance tasks are (no, this isn’t changing the oil in your car..though you should do that a few times a year)
- “no means not now” and creating boundaries in business
- the 2x rule when it comes to learning tech stuff
- time management tips
- planning as an action word and creating the framework to activate

Kathryn Hofer is the founder of Modern Planner, an online community designed to take the dread out of planning and help people live more intentionally. Lovingly referred to as the “champion of boundaries and guilt-free intentional living,” Kathryn is passionate about helping overwhelmed and overworked people slow down, create space for what matters, and make meaningful progress toward their goals. When she isn’t hosting a Planning Party or connecting with the members of her community, you can probably find Kathryn hanging out with her family, spending time outside or curled up with a good book.

Join Kathryn’s FREE Quarterly Planning Party:

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Christine H.: Hello everyone, and welcome to this brand new episode of the 360 Health Biz Podcast. Today, we are a threesome again. So, we have my wonderful co-hostess, super, super sweet and smart and cuddly and I love her to bits, Kendra Perry.

Kendra Perry: Hello.

Christine H.: Hello. This echo is coming in, yes, hello.

Kendra Perry: [crosstalk 00:00:24].

Christine H.: Then, you do have myself, Christine Hansen. Then we have a wonderful guest with us today, and we are going to talk about planning. Just in our pre-check already the word overwhelm is something that we hear over and over and over. So our goal is for you that by the end of this episode that work will not be in our dictionary anymore. You will know exactly what to do. Kendra, take it away and let us know who our mystery guest is today.

Kendra Perry: Awesome. We are hanging out today with Kathryn Hofer. I hope I said your name right, Kathryn. I feel I should check this beforehand, but I'm not organized. Kathryn is the founder of Modern Planner, an online community designed to take the dread out of planning and help people live more intentionally. Love that. Lovingly referred to as the Champion of Boundaries and Guilt-Free Intentional Living.

Kendra Perry: Kathryn is passionate about helping overwhelmed and overworked people slow down, which I know is all of you guys. She helps them create space for what matters. And make meaningful process towards their goal. When she isn't hosing a planning party or connecting with the members of her community, you can probably find Kathryn hanging out with her family, spending time outside. Or curled up with a good book. What's up, Kathryn? Thanks for being here.

Kathryn Hofer: Thank you guys so much for having me. It's always fun to talk about the things that I love. Planning makes me a little giddy, so [crosstalk 00:01:49].

Kendra Perry: I love that.

Christine H.: [crosstalk 00:01:51] let's put this aside. Let's just try and wing it, which works too. But I do suspect that it's probably a lot more draining than otherwise. [crosstalk 00:02:01]-

Kendra Perry: I feel like there's a connection between lack of planning and overwhelmed. Would you agree, Kathryn?

Kathryn Hofer: Yeah, I definitely think those things pair together. Then sometimes it's not just the lack of planning. What I've been noticing, especially in the last year, is its people's perspective of planning creates the overwhelmed.

Christine H.: So, walk us through that. What would be the typical thought? And I'm absolutely sure that once you tell us, people are going to go, "Oh yeah, me here." So walk us a little bit through the general perception and what you discovered is actually behind it.

Kathryn Hofer: That's a good question. A lot of people feel like planning is restrictive. That's a huge one. So that they feel like, "Okay, when I create a plan, then I have to do exactly what I planned." But the best part of planning is that it's flexible. It's meant to adjust with you. So helping people shift and realize instead of being restrictive, that planning is actually freeing is huge mental shift.

Kathryn Hofer: Once people understand that, then that tends to help them understand the planning process a little bit more. Because your plan is meant to serve you. You are not meant to serve your plan. So the whole point of planning, like I talk about it this way ... Actually, I just did a workshop last week with fresh out of high school girls. It was so cool to see, even for them, they don't have decades of wrong behavior, or misconceptions about planning.

Kathryn Hofer: But even realizing for them, they all thought you create a plan and you do it. And if you don't do it, then you're not planning. I was like, "Well, planning," I'm like, "what is that? You guys are fresh out of high school." I'm like, "Planning, it's a verb. It's an action word."

Kathryn Hofer: So what that means is that actually if we are planning properly we're constantly adjusting, shifting, making changes so that our plan serves us. Rather than feeling like we have to fit into this little box. So planning being restrictive is a huge, huge pitfall that I find that people fall into.

Kendra Perry: [crosstalk 00:04:01]. I think I've had that perception to some degree, because I like room for spontaneity. I like to, how do I feel this week? What do I feel like working on? So when I see this plan in advance, which we just did because we're doing this year long mastermind, I was like, "Oh, my God, that's crazy. I can't believe that's all planned out a year in advance." But I think I like this flexible framework that you're talking about. And-

Christine H.: Yeah. I think [crosstalk 00:04:28] this mindset bullshit, right?

Kendra Perry: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Christine H.: You have to follow through. What you start you have to finish. If you don't finish you're a loser, or you're flaky. So I think it's just this indoctrination as well, and it just doesn't work for everyone. Not everyone works in a linear structure either. It is funny, because Kendra and I, we say it all the time, we're so different.

Christine H.: So she's like, "How should we plan this and this?" I'm just like, "We can do whatever we want to do." So even if we said the schedule is this way, we can just change it. But it's true, we're so different. Something that would be interesting for me to ask you is actually, either you have people who are absolutely ...

Christine H.: They love to do lists and go in chronological order. And then you have the people who might not go in a chronological order, and who are a little bit more organic. Do people plan differently? Is there-

Kathryn Hofer: Absolutely.

Christine H.: Oh.

Kathryn Hofer: Absolutely. I mean I feel like that's a huge question. But before we jump into how people plan, because I'll tell you four of the really simple planning approaches that I talk about on Planning Parties. But I want to touch on one of the things that you said, because some people are more linear with planning, or whatever.

Kathryn Hofer: So, I believe that a life well planned is a life well lived. Because I think that planning really helps bring structure. But the other thing that I think we can't forget in that conversation is that life doesn't go as planned.

Christine H.: [crosstalk 00:05:46].

Kendra Perry: Yes.

Kathryn Hofer: Right?

Kendra Perry: That's so true.

Christine H.: [crosstalk 00:05:49].

Kathryn Hofer: But we create these plans thinking that life is going to be totally perfect and that nothing's going to happen, and we don't ever leave white space for life.

Kendra Perry: Right.

Christine H.: Very true.

Kathryn Hofer: So then when life happens and throws us off, or a kid is sick, and home sick for three days of the week, and it throws ... we haven't accounted for that, for that life happening. So that's a big thing with planning that I think is forgotten a lot. I just don't want to leave that unsaid, because I think it's super, super important, and very much overlooked.

Christine H.: [crosstalk 00:06:20]. So true, and it also closes you to opportunities I guess. If you are leaving space for either emergency, which would be the negative. But also, when you leave space for opportunity sometimes things just fall into your lap. Or you'll just have a creative spot and you just run with it.

Christine H.: I love it, because Kendra and I have both been saying, "I might do this and this next year off the cuff. Literally, when I feel like it and when it hits me, and when I think it's the right thing to do." It's fixed in the plan, but I have it in my head. And I'd like to do it off the cuff if I want to.

Christine H.: I think having enough space in the plan to just do that whenever you want to, is just crucial, either opportunity ... Or if you get sick or if your kid gets sick, or if ... I don't know, let's say your server breaks down or you [inaudible 00:07:06] website. I don't know, stupid things like that, they just happen. I mean life just happens for sure, so this is a super great point. Thank you.

Kathryn Hofer: Yeah, no problem. Most of us cram and fill our lives, like when we wake up to when we go to sleep, every day, every week, every month. Then we wonder why we're not making the important things happen.

Christine H.: [crosstalk 00:07:25].

Kathryn Hofer: It's like, well, we have to create some space first. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Do you still want to touch on how people plan differently, and four of the simply approaches?

Christine H.: Yes.

Kathryn Hofer: Should we dive into that?

Christine H.: I would love it.

Kathryn Hofer: When I talk about planning, I share four really simple approaches. Now, these are not the only four, but this is just a way of helping people realize person, and even sometimes every project can be a little bit different. And then that's totally okay. Getting people just used to experimenting with stuff. Because let's be honest, a lot of planning and schedule and all of this is just experimenting.

Kathryn Hofer: It's like you try something and then you see if it works and you notice, and then you learn from that. So the first one is next step. When people are very creative, maybe they're more a type B, super spontaneous, and they've never really planned a lot, then I say, "Start with the next step approach." All you do is say, "Okay, I want to update my website." Great. Well, that project is freaking overwhelming, and you probably won't get started with it, if you don't break it down a little bit.

Kendra Perry: Right.

Kathryn Hofer: But if someone's nervous about creating a project plan, which is one of the other approaches, then just do next step. Just say, "Okay, I want to redo my website. What's the first thing or what's the next step that I should take to move that forward?" Write it down. That's what a lot of people keep this all in their head. Write it down. Put time in your schedule, do it. Then when you've done that say, "Okay, now what's next? Now, what do I do next?"

Kathryn Hofer: That can be when people are really overwhelmed, it's a huge project, when they're new to planning. So just that next step is just a really simple way of moving it forward. But it's not deadline or timeline driven. It's just like, "What's the next thing I'm going to do?" Okay, write that down, do it. "What's the next thing I'm going to do?" Write it down, do it. And just keep moving like that.

Kathryn Hofer: The second big one is project plan. That's kind of the opposite, where you've got this big project and you say, "Okay, I want to do this. How am I going to break that down?" So, we talked about project planning in the sense like I like to keep it super simple. And be like, decide your direction, figure out what the end goal is and where you're heading.

Kathryn Hofer: Identify the obstacles. What are the things that could stand in your way? If somebody's building a business or creating a website, but they've got their kids. And their kids are all young and not in school, childcare, focused time, that's going to be an obstacle. Maybe someone has a chronic health issue that they're working around. So some weeks they feel great, and some weeks they don't, that's something to be aware of. This is a constraint or a potential obstacle.

Kathryn Hofer: Then what it is, is breaking down the main big milestones. I mean since we went with the website, and was the first thing that just popped in my head, we can use that. But, what would some of those milestones be and those phases be? Say you want to work on your website over three months. Then put together two week sprints. Okay, the first two weeks might be doing a full website audit. And what do I have? What do I need to create?

Kathryn Hofer: Then the next two weeks might be mapping out the new pages, and copy. Then the next two weeks might be finding all the images and the links. And what are the opt ins going to be? Do you know what I mean? Then it's working with somebody who could help with code. You map out this two week big picture blocks.

Kathryn Hofer: Then the last step in project planning is getting really, really detailed. So in those two weeks what are all of the tasks and actions? I mean it can seem overwhelming, but this is why we do this. Because if you can get down to 20, 30 minute tasks and actions, then every time you sit down, and in your calendar it says, "Work on website," you just go to your list and you do the next thing on your list.

Kendra Perry: [crosstalk 00:11:05].

Kathryn Hofer: And you know that it's only 20 or 30 minutes, so you can do it. What happens is most of us keep our projects so big, that then we keep procrastinating and pushing them into the future because we don't know how to start. So that's a big thing when it comes to project planning.

Kendra Perry: What would you suggest for people? Because I feel like some of our people, they're like, "I want to do this. I want to do this," but they've never done it before, so they may not even know, what are the tasks involved in this project? Or, what I've come across a lot is I'm like, "Oh, this will take me two hours, and I'm going to put aside some time for that." Then eight fucking hours later I'm like, "Oh, my God, I'm not even halfway," right? Because you just obviously with online business you encounter tech things, or something's not working.

Kathryn Hofer: Absolutely.

Kendra Perry: How do you plan for all the shit? Or just maybe not even knowing what are the steps of a project?

Kathryn Hofer: What I recommend people do, is you most likely know someone that has done a similar project before, so reach out to some people. And be like, "Hey, you did a rebrand. You did a new website." Or, "You created a new opt in and a funnel, what did that look like for you? Would you be willing to share some of those steps?" And asking people for feedback. Or what was the biggest lesson they learned? Just getting that input from other people.

Kathryn Hofer: One of the things that I talk about a lot of times, is because people always say, "Well, I don't have enough time to plan." Yeah. I hear it all like you wouldn't believe, at least weekly in my Instagram DMs. And on every single [crosstalk 00:12:36] thing I do.

Christine H.: [crosstalk 00:12:36].

Kathryn Hofer: Because our culture teaches us to cram everything in and just do it, so we don't actually plan out. But then we run behind and we feel stressed, and it's this cycle. So one of the things that I recommend for people that say, "I don't have enough time," is to always use the two X rule. I mean that's a baseline. So if you are doing something new for the first time, or for the first few times, always double the time that you're allotting in your calendar.

Christine H.: [crosstalk 00:13:01].

Kendra Perry: [crosstalk 00:13:02]. That's a good call.

Kathryn Hofer: Yeah, [crosstalk 00:13:05] always use the two X rule.

Kendra Perry: That's very wise.

Kathryn Hofer: Be like, "Huh, I've never invoiced clients before. Oh, I think this project will an hour," at least give yourself two." Even on the personal side like, "Oh yeah, I can go get groceries in 45 minutes, and I'll be back home," just double it.

Christine H.: [crosstalk 00:13:23], and I'm late. I'm one of these people-

Kathryn Hofer: Traffic.

Christine H.: ... who's chronically late to every appointment.

Kathryn Hofer: Accidents, right?

Christine H.: Apparently, that's optimistic people, I think [crosstalk 00:13:32].

Kathryn Hofer: Totally, I mean there is a sense of optimism in that. But there's also, we don't understand, most of us anyway, don't know how much we can do in what period of time. And we're not really good at that, so I encourage everyone to track and schedule. So get a really good time tracking app. And every time you're working on a specific project, know how long it takes you. Especially things that are recurring.

Kathryn Hofer: If you're doing things over and over, know how long it takes you. So then you can be like, "Okay, my monthly ..." Writing, scheduling, and creating all of my Instagram content for a month, I've been doing it for three months now. I've tracked the time. I know that it takes me three hours.

Kendra Perry: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Oh, my God.

Kathryn Hofer: And I've learned that I can't do that all in one day. I need to break that up into three different pieces. I need to brainstorm, outline, come up with ideas. I need to write it para-images, and then I need to schedule it. And those need to be three different work blocks.

Kendra Perry: Right.

Kathryn Hofer: Right? So [crosstalk 00:14:26]-

Kendra Perry: No, that's super smart.

Kathryn Hofer: Yeah, so understanding those patterns and how that works, then it's like, "Okay, so I need three hours blocked out on three different day every month to do that." Then when you're planning your next month, you block in those times. That's the only way we learn about those things is actually having data.

Christine H.: Yeah, absolutely. I think that time tracking is something that I adore. I don't do it for me, but I do it for my assistant. For me, it was really interesting to analyze how much time she has on which project. Then also to see, is it worth it? Did we build momentum over the last three months in those chunks of time? Were those chunks of time actually ... do they add to our bottom line?

Christine H.: Obviously, you can't say after the first week, but after a few months it's become very clear which efforts we're actually starting to convert, and which ones didn't.

Kathryn Hofer: Absolutely.

Christine H.: So we could just drop those, because it was just like, "Look at this chunk of time, but we actually haven't gotten any leads from this. Let's chop it." I think a lot of the time we fly blind, completely blind after how much time we invest into this. I think it's because we don't consider it our business. We don't consider money [crosstalk 00:15:38]. It's just time, it's free, but in the end it's a job.

Christine H.: So, it is monetized, even though if you do it, it's different if you pay someone. But because most of our people do everything themselves, they consider it free, which it's not. So, [crosstalk 00:15:52]-

Kathryn Hofer: Yeah, time is valuable.

Christine H.: Exactly, and I think most people don't understand that. Then they just overwork themselves so badly. Kendra, actually I think that's probably something we should integrate into Mastermind. Make it mandatory for our people to just track themselves for a while.

Kathryn Hofer: Yeah, it is really smart. I don't know what you guys are using to track your time, but I use Toggl. It's a free app-

Christine H.: Yeah, we use it too.

Kathryn Hofer: ... and that's what all my assistants and people use to track. They send me the time report at the end of each month, which is really helpful. So they send me that with the invoice. I had a previous assistant in the past where I was looking up the time report and I'm like, "Man, she's taking four times as long to do this one task, and it's been months." This was actually after a certain amount of time I realized that, that wasn't going to work out anymore, because it was just ...

Kathryn Hofer: I realize I do things faster, also I do things shitty, so that's part of it. Because I don't care about things like spelling mistakes and little fuck ups, so obviously someone working for me cares about those sort of things. But eventually I was looking at how long it was taking your assistant, Tamara, to do things, versus the assistant I had at the time. It was four times as long, and I was like, "Okay, this is not working." So I love that thing about time tracking, I think that's really valuable.

Kendra Perry: I do too. That's been [crosstalk 00:17:10]-

Kathryn Hofer: Yeah. It was really key actually time tracking in me figuring out this spring. I was feeling out of alignment with some things in my business. So I was like, "You know what? I'm just going to look at my last few monthly reports." And I looked at how much of my time was going to different places, and I was like, "Well, this is why this feels out of alignment because I literally have no time to do marketing or connect with new people. Or, grow my community because all of my time ..."

Kathryn Hofer: I was like, "No, not happening. I don't want to continue this." So it's really important even just for us as business owners to know where that time is going. Because it's all about prioritizing, right? The more simple and focused we are, the more simple and focused we are the more we're going to move things ahead. And a lot of times we don't want to track because it's so overwhelming. And what we know, we're going to realize about how we're using our time is like, ah.

Kendra Perry: There it is. Yeah, totally. [crosstalk 00:18:05]-

Kathryn Hofer: Yeah. I wanted to just mention I think in the beginning for all you new business owners out here, you really have to put aside a lot of time for the tech stuff. Because some of the people I work with, they can't figure out how to use Google Drive or Dropbox, and these simple things. So I know it's going to take them four to six times as long as my other people who have tech skills. Right?

Kendra Perry: [crosstalk 00:18:28].

Kathryn Hofer: I think when you don't understand tech, you have no idea how long it can take to do things, and learn it. Right?

Christine H.: Great. And afterwards, it's going to go so much quicker because you can streamline everything. And that just takes you a second, but it is a learning curve for sure. One thing that we talked about before as well, is I totally get it, people [inaudible 00:18:48] differently.

Christine H.: When we talked to our people, we saw that a lot of them, for them planning is purely business. Like, "I want you to launch a group course. I want you to launch in 101 signature program. I want to do a retreat. I want to do this. I want to do that. I want to do a platform. I want to get [inaudible 00:19:06] running. All of these staff, I want you to launch a Facebook group."

Christine H.: So we actually asked them, "So where is time?" And it was interesting, because we made them also schedule in their personal project. Some people, it wasn't even on their radar that they should schedule in their holidays, their vacations, their personal projects. That, that was actually valid, I would even say. And that, that time is ultimately contributing to your bottom line. Which seems ridiculous because it doesn't have anything to do with your business per se.

Christine H.: So, I don't we've succeeded quite yet at having them understand. So, if you manage to make people understand why scheduling in your personal goals or wishes, or whatever you want to do, it's just as valid to bring you money. Because in the end that's what we want to do. Then having your [inaudible 00:20:02] and courses and stuff. We both would be so grateful. The world will be so grateful, so maybe you can help us with that.

Kathryn Hofer: Yeah. I think, really it comes down to what's important to you. We have to remember that our priorities ... So, an interesting thing, can we just do down a nerd bunny hole?

Christine H.: Yes.

Kathryn Hofer: The word priority was singular in the English and for over 500 years, right? It wasn't until the 1900s that it became plural. So this created a massive problem because instead of having one priority, now we can have multiple apparently. But it's not really true.

Christine H.: [crosstalk 00:20:43].

Kathryn Hofer: Yeah, but it's not really true. In this moment my priority is being here on this call, showing up and 100% focused. If I was also trying to do something else, I wouldn't be successful at either of them. So I think part of the conversation with personal and business goals planning, hobbies, trying to have time for everything, quote/unquote, is realizing that every season looks a little bit different.

Kathryn Hofer: That season could be as short as one day, or that season could be a week. Or it could be a month, or it could be a year. And understanding that we do need to look at all areas of our life. I have a course called Set Vision and Plan Change, which is a big picture of back up, look at your whole year. Look at all these areas of life. There's 18 of them so it can seem a little bit overwhelming.

Kathryn Hofer: But I show everyone like, "Here, professional has three subcategories. Three of the 18 are actually work. The rest of them are all different things. It's personal relationships. It's your health, and health is physical, emotional, spiritual, intellectual. You know what I mean? So my helping everyone see, "Okay, these are all the areas of my life," and I make people choose ... I mean I don't make them, I recommend that people choose three to five main areas for a whole year to focus on.

Christine H.: [crosstalk 00:22:09]. Oh, fuck, I would die. Yeah.

Kathryn Hofer: It is really hard.

Kendra Perry: Yeah.

Kathryn Hofer: It is really hard, but what it helps us do is ... I mean this is like then touching onto goal setting, which I don't believe in annual goal setting. But that's a whole other conversation. So I think when it comes to this personal and business stuff, it's just realizing that we are one person.

Christine H.: Right.

Kathryn Hofer: And there's a lot of aspects to who we are. Sorry about that. My phone was off, and then it randomly started [crosstalk 00:22:39].

Kendra Perry: It's all right, no worries.

Kathryn Hofer: We are one person. And even though one of our main focuses might be our business, there are still other areas of life. What happens is if we are not making minimal deposits at least into these other areas of life, then what happens is we end up burning out. I have a background of clinical depression, chronic pain. Some massive health issues that I walked through and I changed my life and how I was living. And made some pretty massive shifts.

Kathryn Hofer: But I had to see my health as actually important, and it can be really hard. Like when you're wanting to be in a season where business is important, realizing, "Oh, I have personal stuff." Marriages don't need to fall apart just because you're building a business. But you need to know what's important.

Kathryn Hofer: So some people, that looks like having very set boundaries for working. And when they're not working they're with their family. So when I get home from picking my daughter up from childcare, I don't touch work until she's dropped off and I'm back in. Unless I have an evening meeting or something like that.

Kathryn Hofer: I don't work in the evenings. I don't go on my work social media on the weekends. So for some people it looks when they're working they work, and when they're not, they're not. So that's where I think that priorities and learning how to plan, and how your time works and how your energy works. There's so many things interconnected in this conversation, but realizing these different areas of who we are. How we want to move things forward.

Kathryn Hofer: Then creating a really simple plan to make that work. Creating some boundaries, all of that. Learning how to set great goals for the year, or focus areas, it's all part of that conversation. And maybe your personal life and health is not a priority for you right now. It might not be, but in a year and a half when you burn out and you're in the hospital with a health issue, suddenly it becomes a priority.

Kathryn Hofer: Sometimes, as horrible as it sounds, it takes something really dramatic happening in a different area of our life to realize that we're one person. And we have a lot of different needs. And just focusing on our business isn't all that it's cracked up to be.

Kendra Perry: Yeah, and I love that speak about burnout, because for me, something I've realized is having more time to relax. Like making time for meditation. Getting out in nature and actually working less hours in the day. I'm more productive during that time. I use that time better because I think it's this dangerous thing where you're like, "Oh, well, I'll relax when ..." It's like, "When I get my business to this." But when you get there you're going to have something else.

Kendra Perry: Then you're just going to keep putting off your personal self-care. Which is so important when you're a business owner, because you can't just have your business. It can't be the only thing you have, right?

Kathryn Hofer: Yeah.

Christine H.: Exactly.

Kathryn Hofer: One of the good questions, the book The One Thing, by Gary Keller and Jay ... I'm not going to say his name right. Pasternak, something like that.

Kendra Perry: Yeah, I've heard about it a few times.

Christine H.: I've heard of it, yeah.

Kathryn Hofer: They ask this very specific focus question. And it's what's the one thing I can do, such that by doing it everything will be easier or unnecessary? So I hosted a regret-free wrap up challenge for people who were feeling overwhelmed and unfocused, and all the things to do to finish up the year. In doing that I brought up this question, and I made them choose one thing that they wanted to finish by the end of the year. One, and we created a plan for that, and we put that in our schedule.

Christine H.: [crosstalk 00:26:12].

Kathryn Hofer: The comments from people, realizing actually the thing that's going to make everything else easier or unnecessary is actually carving out the time with my family that I want to.

Kendra Perry: [crosstalk 00:26:24]-

Kathryn Hofer: That's what I want to do, and by realizing that ... Yeah, by putting my out of office on my thing, and creating boundaries. We had all these conversations about these amazing ideas. But when they realized by actually carving out the time to be with my family and spend time with them over the holidays, I'm saying yes to this thing. And saying, "This is the most important thing, but it's also going to make everything else easier."

Christine H.: [crosstalk 00:26:49].

Kathryn Hofer: Suddenly, because it's like, this is my priority. This is what's most important. And saying yes to this does mean saying no to other things. Life is all about trade offs. But I just think that's a really-

Christine H.: [crosstalk 00:26:59] saying, "No," is a big piece.

Kathryn Hofer: ... important thing to think about, right? And it helps us determine what our priorities are, and what we should be working on first.

Kendra Perry: Yeah. I think a lot of our listeners, because they're new business owners, money is a big concern for them. So a lot of the coaching I do with people is telling them what they should be saying no to. Because they're like, "Oh, this thing came up." I'm like, "Yeah, but that's actually not moving you towards what you want to be doing. That's building someone else's business. That's way more benefit to them than you."

Christine H.: Oh, my God, yeah.

Kendra Perry: Do you know what I'm saying? And [crosstalk 00:27:30]-

Christine H.: And they despise it as in this is an opportunity for you, and in truth it really isn't.

Kendra Perry: Yeah.

Christine H.: [crosstalk 00:27:34] just read between the lines.

Kendra Perry: Yeah. I would love to know can give our listeners some advice about how to create boundaries in that way? Because I mean I'm guilty of this too, I spread myself too thin all the time without meaning to, without realizing it. Then I'm just like, "Fuck, my week is crazy [crosstalk 00:27:53]."

Christine H.: [crosstalk 00:27:54].

Kathryn Hofer: Boundaries are really tough. [crosstalk 00:27:59]-

Christine H.: Goddammit.

Kathryn Hofer: Yeah, I mean it is a big experiment. It really is, because you have to figure out ... What I always recommend people do though when it comes to boundaries or commitments or opportunities, is start with less. I mean one of the things I talk about on Planning Party is just something called Maintenance Tasks.

Kathryn Hofer: So know what the maintenance tasks are in your business. What are the things that every month, or every week, that you have to do in your business to keep your current commitments running? Not the things you'd like to do, but your current clients, the things you do. What do you absolutely have to do? Start with that. Know how much time it takes you to do that. Figure that out, what that number is.

Kathryn Hofer: Figure out whether ... because some people do writing better in the morning, better in the afternoon. Figure out how long it takes you to do your maintenance tasks every week and every month. Put that in your schedule. And basically create a document or a card in Trello, or a note in Asana or whatever about these future ideas and opportunities.

Kathryn Hofer: Basically, what I recommend people do is when they're trying to figure out boundaries and what this looks like, and setting up their ... Trying to prioritize a little bit, I actually recommend that they say no to every single opportunity for a whole quarter.

Kendra Perry: Wow, okay.

Christine H.: [crosstalk 00:29:21].

Kathryn Hofer: Which can seem really overwhelming, and let's be honest, but this is an experiment.

Kendra Perry: Right.

Kathryn Hofer: So before we can know all the extra things we can take on, we have to know what our current workload, how much time that takes us. And how much energy that, that takes, and the investment that, that's going to be. What that could mean is, someone pitches, "Hey, would you like to come on the podcast?" "Hey, I'd love to, however I'm fully booked out and not able to do any interviews until April. Would that still work for you, if we could schedule it then?"

Christine H.: [crosstalk 00:29:53].

Kathryn Hofer: It doesn't mean saying no. So let's pull this in, no does not mean never.

Kendra Perry: Right.

Christine H.: True.

Kathryn Hofer: No means not now.

Kendra Perry: Aw, dude, that's like Insta Graphic [crosstalk 00:30:05]. Man, [crosstalk 00:30:08].

Kathryn Hofer: But that's a big part of it. So when we're starting out or when we're doing a business refresh, it means saying no to these things which we'd love to do that might grow our community. But we have to figure out this basic, so always figure out maintenance tasks. Start with that. Then what you do is you create a really simple system for what you can say yes to.

Kathryn Hofer: So, I have some examples of my past boundaries that I've had. I have limited myself to one coffee chat a week. And that's actually how it was set up in Acuity, so I couldn't book ... I had my bookings available for one-on-one for coffee chats, whatever. But Acuity actually in the settings, it was no more than one every week.

Kathryn Hofer: Having an auto responder on your email so you don't feel guilty about not replying to emails within 24 hours of them hitting your inbox. [crosstalk 00:30:59].

Kendra Perry: Oh yeah, I love that. Mine says, "I may not get back to you for a week."

Christine H.: I know, and I just got Outlook. We just said that I could have an auto responder for the holidays. Because usually use Mail, and you can't do it. You can do it with Rules, but if someone else has an auto responder, they basically play ping pong until eternity. So it's not working very well.

Christine H.: I just got Outlook and I just typed in the text. It's literally, "Look, I need my beauty sleep, dude. [inaudible 00:31:25] this and this time chunk." And I cannot wait to hit that enable button, and to have that just go out. I mean I think I'm going to cry the day, which is Friday until I hit that button. It's just like it's official. It's official. People know, I'm gone. Totally, this is just what I'd like, so I'm really-

Kathryn Hofer: I have an auto responder on all the time. And when-

Kendra Perry: Yeah, I do too.

Kathryn Hofer: Before my daughter was born it said, "Hey, I'm about to have a baby. I have no idea when I'm going to get back to your email. But I'm taking about three months off from my business, and I'll do my best to get back to you." Then basically, next steps. "If you're new to my community, or you're applying to a newsletter, thank you so much. I'll try to ..."

Kathryn Hofer: It's things like that, that I think ... I mean we're kind of veering away from your original question. But it's like, how do we create boundaries, or shut off shiny object syndrome? Right?

Christine H.: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah.

Kathryn Hofer: So my biggest tip is know what your maintenance tasks are. Know what you have to do to run your business. How long it takes you, get that in your schedule. Create really clear boundaries and guidelines for how often you'll take things on. So maybe it's how many coffee chats you have. Maybe it's, I only want to schedule two podcast interviews a month. Set things like that, and then have this great list of all the stuff you'd love to do in the future, and then revisit it.

Kathryn Hofer: In my community, I host free quarterly planning parties. So every quarter we're planning, we're looking ahead. We're prioritizing, we're planning stuff out, we get it in our schedule. But then I do the same thing every month. So then just encouraging people, whatever that looks like for you, revisit.

Kathryn Hofer: Have that list handy, and when you're planning your quarter, being like, "Hey, is there anything on here I could maybe pull in." Because so many times I think we have this perception of, "If I don't do it right now, I'll never be able to do it."

Christine H.: Yeah. Do you use any tools? Do you have any planners you use? Anything like that, that can guide you through this?

Kathryn Hofer: I use my Planning Party framework. That's what I use, and what my community uses. The goal is to turn that into a planner that then anyone can use.

Christine H.: [crosstalk 00:33:38].

Kathryn Hofer: But because I'm working on my own project and my own system, and trying to get that better to share, I don't use another planner right now. If people like big fat books, I used PowerSheets for years by Lara Casey. That was a good tool because it has monthly prep work built in, which is a big part of what a lot of planners don't have. It's just like, "Here, plan your stuff."

Kathryn Hofer: But every month you should be reevaluating what are my priorities? And what's still important to me? So I think it just depends on ... It's about creating that system and that flow of checking in. And sometimes that's a weekly check-in and a monthly check-in, and a quarterly check-in. Creating these rhythms of making sure that what we're working on is still important to us, which is what the Modern Planner framework is.

Kathryn Hofer: So what I teach people about planning is you always start with prioritize. So most people just start by planning, "I'm just going plan." But you have to start with prioritizing. You prioritize and then you create a plan. Because let's be honest, you shouldn't waste time or spend time planning something that you shouldn't be doing anyway. Right?

Kendra Perry: Right.

Kathryn Hofer: I'm not just a plan everything person. I'm like, "No, plan the right things." So, prioritize, plan, and then we act. The acting piece is where all the time management productivity people sit. They teach you how to act well. How to set up your environment. How to manage your energy. How to ... all of these things fall under act. But then that's the fourth step, which is adjust.

Kathryn Hofer: That's the checking in part. So creating that rhythm, whatever that looks like for you, of adjusting your plan, making changes. If you're mid month, and you're like, "Okay, these are the three things I wanted to do. That one's just not going to happen." Then, put it on a list for a future month and just get rid of it. Maybe you're swapping it with something else, that's the beauty of planning.

Kathryn Hofer: So that framework is actually like a circle, that we're constantly doing prioritize, plan, act, adjust, prioritize. And we just do it over and over and over again. That's what makes planning active, and that's what helps our plan serve us.

Kendra Perry: Yeah, and I think there's this big-

Kathryn Hofer: [crosstalk 00:35:47] got to keep-

Kendra Perry: ... [inaudible 00:35:48] around people just wanting to stick with what they said they were going to do. I don't know where I've heard this, but I've heard that people are way more likely to stick to something they committed to do. Even when it's clearly not working, and it's not benefiting them. Because they're like, "I have to stick it out."

Kathryn Hofer: But that's what we're told with goal setting now.

Kendra Perry: Yeah, true. That's true.

Kathryn Hofer: That's my issue with annual goal setting, is that we pick these numbers and these goals so arbitrarily most of the time.

Kendra Perry: Right.

Kathryn Hofer: So what happens is it's like, "Choose a goal for this month. Choose goals for this year." So it's like we pick, "Okay, these areas, and I'm going to pick these numbers. And I'm going to lose much weight, and bring in this much income." But it's not coming from a basis of what's important to us, or what our season even looks like.

Kathryn Hofer: So that's my issue with annual goal setting, because we're taught to, "Stick to your goals. Meet this, see it through." It's like, "Okay." Goals typically set us up for failure, because they use data and numbers. And they create these unrealistic expectations. And these deadlines that mean actually nothing, if we really think about most of them.

Kathryn Hofer: So smart goals or goal setting really only works if you have a lot of clarity about what's most important to you. You're brilliant at prioritizing. You already have a clear vision for your whole year. And now you're breaking those smaller tasks into goals. And being like, "Okay, now, for this next month this is one of my goals this month." But it's achieving something that's tied to a bigger idea.

Christine H.: [crosstalk 00:37:14]. Yeah, right.

Kathryn Hofer: That's when goal setting works. So I encourage people to actually write something, what I've experience statements. What an experience statement is, is there are phrases that are about setting you up for success. So describing what you want to feel and experience in an area of your life, rather than just a number that you want to hit.

Kathryn Hofer: So they set us up to win. And they create this framework that gives us freedom to adjust and change easily without having to recreate it. For instance, someone might set a goal, "I'm going to lose 20 pounds this year." "Okay."

Christine H.: [crosstalk 00:37:51].

Kathryn Hofer: So what happens, if you eat healthy, you get outside, you work out and you don't lose 20 pounds because you increased your muscle mass.

Kendra Perry: Right. Yeah, good point.

Kathryn Hofer: Now, suddenly we still feel like a failure, even though we made progress. So for me, my philosophy is that progress is perfection, and it's not-

Kendra Perry: Right.

Kathryn Hofer: That is. If you were making progress toward the big things in life that you want to do, then that's perfect. You're winning. So an experience statement of that might be, "I want to experience strength and confidence in my physical body."

Kendra Perry: I love it.

Christine H.: [crosstalk 00:38:28].

Kathryn Hofer: Now suddenly we're getting creative with these things that we can do that moves forward physical health, which is an area of our life, in a way that's setting us up for success. So one quarter that might look like cleaning up our diet. Another quarter, now that, that's become a habit, that might look like getting outside more because the weather's nice again, and moving. Right?

Kathryn Hofer: It gives us that flexibility because it's not this goal that's defined like this, that now we feel like we have to stick to it. So it's about getting rid of the guilt. [crosstalk 00:38:56].

Kendra Perry: There is so much guilt. There's so much guilt. It's crazy, and I just feel like people, they put ... I love what you said about deadlines, how most things ... People are putting these deadlines on themselves. They're like, "Oh, I'm making such slow progress. Oh, my God, I'm failing." I'm like, "You're making progress. Who's putting a deadline on this other than yourself," right?

Kathryn Hofer: Yeah.

Kendra Perry: Everyone's going to build a business at a different speed, right?

Kathryn Hofer: Yeah.

Kendra Perry: Some of us have to learn more than others, and it's not an easy thing to do. So, [crosstalk 00:39:27].

Kathryn Hofer: And different people have different obstacles that they have to overcome. I've been pretty much part-time in my business since I started it. I've been in business four and a half years ago. But people that I met when I started my business, a lot of them are further ahead than me in terms of numbers, profit, income, whatever, but I'm okay with that.

Kathryn Hofer: I'm growing at the pace that I can physically handle with my requirements. And I'm still changing lives and selling things. And I'm doing what I love, but it's just going to be slower. And slow growth is still growth. It doesn't-

Christine H.: [crosstalk 00:40:01].

Kendra Perry: Yeah, and I think I'm hearing this intentional growth from you. Because what I see a lot of people doing, is they grow just to grow. And I was guilty of this. I remember being at a counseling, and I was like, "Yeah, I'm working all time. My boyfriend's pissed off at me. But I'm doing this, and I got to ..." She was like, "So, what are you going to do with all that money?" I was like-

Christine H.: I don't know.

Kendra Perry: ... "I don't know." She's like, "What are you doing?" I'm like, "I don't know."

Christine H.: Oh, dear. [crosstalk 00:40:26]-

Kathryn Hofer: Yeah. That's something that a lot of us don't think about, or that's we start a business. For instance, I started a business rather than getting another full-time job. Because I knew that if I started my business I'd more flexibility to maintain my health. And be able to maintain some of the things and habits that I'd built that I needed the space for.

Kathryn Hofer: So that's why I started my own business. And I wanted to do something I loved, that I could talk about for days and hours, obviously. And I wanted to do it in that way. But so many times, then we dive into all this stuff of what it is, especially in the online business space, and we forget why we actually started. For me, it's to be able to do what I love in a flexible way that supports my family. And it allows me to spend time with them.

Christine H.: Yeah, and I feel that's like merger of The Desire Map in a way. If you guys know Danielle ... What's her name again? Crap.

Kathryn Hofer: LaPorte.

Christine H.: LaPorte, exactly. But The Desire Map is purely just doing the values and figuring that out. Which is an important piece, but it doesn't give you a lot of structure in terms of [inaudible 00:41:32] and so forth. So I feel like if you'd pull these different things together, which you are basically allowing people to do ... You do have a beautiful 360 holistic framework [crosstalk 00:41:39].

Christine H.: So, speaking of, if we have people who are like, "Okay, it all makes sense, but I'm already feeling overwhelmed. I do understand the benefits of all of this, but I want to have someone guide me through it." Which is what I would [inaudible 00:41:53]. So, how can they reach out to you? How can they get that guidance of basically having you walk them through it so that they don't freak out?

Kathryn Hofer: It's tough, because the thing that's going to make the biggest difference is somebody doing a quarterly planning party.

Kendra Perry: Right, so-

Christine H.: But where do they do that?

Kathryn Hofer: But that is 90 minutes investment of time. You know what I mean? That's where we have to realize for every minute we spend planning, how much time we're spending on the other end. So even though it seems like a commitment, and it is, but if you just visit that's where you can sign up for the quarterly planning party. I do it live once every quarter.

Kendra Perry: Awesome.

Kathryn Hofer: Then in between I provide an option for you to watch it on demand whenever you want so that you can create your quarterly plan now. You don't have to wait until the start of a new official quarter.

Christine H.: [crosstalk 00:42:53].

Kathryn Hofer: So even though it's a time commitment that would be my recommendation for people, is to just-

Christine H.: Absolutely.

Kathryn Hofer: ... create your quarterly plan and get clear.

Christine H.: It's a no-brainer, I feel. If you think you don't have enough time, this is what you have to start with. We're going to link to it on our show notes as well. So if you guys haven't heard it, it's going to be on there as well. So, find the blog and just look at this episode, and the link will be there.

Christine H.: Yeah, well, this has been really, really helpful in so many different ways. I think that we have a really good grasp for why we need to do this holistically. Why it's not enough to just ... Why goals don't work, which I find is amazing, and just those different steps. So thank you so, so much. It has been really helpful for me too actually, and just sometimes just realizing what is blocking us [crosstalk 00:43:40].

Kathryn Hofer: Yeah.

Christine H.: So, that was amazing.

Kathryn Hofer: Thank you guys so much for having me.

Kendra Perry: Awesome.

Christine H.: Absolutely. [crosstalk 00:43:47]-

Kendra Perry: Well, thanks so much everyone. Thanks for hanging out with us. We will be back next week with our Biz Bomb series. And in two weeks for another full episode. Thank you, Christine. Thank you, Kathryn. And we love you. [crosstalk 00:44:00].

Christine H.: [crosstalk 00:43:59].

Biz Bomb – Eliminate Reactive Tasks & Increase Productivity

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We've got a quick tip Biz Bomb for you today that is going to change your productivity in 2020!

You know that say work smarter, not harder? The truth to that statement revolves around how you set up your day to be productive. In today’s Biz Bomb, Kendra shares with you her juicy tip on how she manages her work day to be uber productive with no burn out at the end of the day.

Do you ever work a full day, only to end the day asking yourself what you actually got accomplished? We experienced the same thing UNTIL we made the bold decision to remove reactive tasks in our mornings.

What are reactive tasks you ask? Well the biggest one, and the one we talk about today, is emails. Often times, emails are putting out fires – something’s not working on your website, your client can’t access your calendar, another client is upset about this or that. We just end up getting into this very reactive state, which ultimately kills our creativity and our productivity.
So how can you get around this? Kendra suggests limited checking (and responding) to emails after 12pm. This allows you the whole morning to get the important stuff out of the way, like showing up on social media, creating content, working on your email nurture sequence, or actually just working with clients.

If you have a team you work with, let them know that you only check your emails (and any other communication tools you use) after 12pm. To be even MORE productive, try to give yourself only an hour to check emails. So between 12-1pm (or whatever time you choose) you check emails, put out the fires, and then get back to running your business. And usually we check our emails one more time before end of day so nothing is left overnight in case it’s actually urgent.

We challenge you to try this out and let us know if this works for you​!

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What's up, guys? Welcome to another Biz Bomb episode of the 360 Health Biz Podcast. This is our quick tip series that basically gives you a super-juicy tip. Your head explodes because you're so fucking excited.

I am Kendra Perry; I am your host. Today I'm going to give you a super-juicy, super-quick productivity tip. This is something I just recently started doing. I honestly don't know how I didn't think or figure out to do this before, because it's been a total game changer.

But what I hear a lot of health coaches tell me is that they don't have enough time; they always get caught up in the admin, the side tasks that yes, are important to a business, but don't necessarily grow your business or keep you on track for what you actually want to accomplish, which might be showing up on social media, or creating content, or working on your email nurture sequence, or actually just working with clients, or maybe just taking a fucking break. Right?

What I recommend; this has helped me a lot; is to get rid of all your reactive tasks in the morning. Okay? I've heard this from a lot of coaches that the first thing they do, before they maybe even have breakfast or a cup of coffee, is they are getting onto their email and answering emails.

Now what you have to remember is that answering emails is a very reactive task. Oftentimes what we do when we start answering emails is we just have to put out the fires, right? Because this didn't work, and this person's having a problem with this, and this is glitching, and this person's upset about this, and this person wants this.

We just end up getting into this very reactive state, which ultimately kills our creativity and our productivity. Then at the end of the day makes us feel like, "Well, I just worked all fucking day long. I'm exhausted, but I didn't actually accomplish anything that I actually wanted to accomplish." Okay?

Emails are very reactive. Ultimately, when we get on email, we're going to be putting out fires. For a lot of us; this is going to depend on the person; but for a lot of us, mornings can be very productive times for us. Me personally, this is when I'm most productive. By about 2:00 p.m., I'm kind of done. Okay?

So I really need to make the most of my time in the morning. What I've started doing is I don't actually jump onto my email until noon. I don't actually jump onto my team chat, which is Slack. I use chat for Slack for team communication or Trello, which is our project organization board. I don't actually look at those until noon. Okay?

I've told my team this. I have let them know that I don't actually look at anything until noon. And that's fine, because I'm not in the business of emergency. Personally, I don't think anything is emergency, and everything can always wait; even when people maybe think things are an emergency.

Honestly, unless you are in anaphylactic shock and your throat is closing up, it's not an emergency. If you are in anaphylactic shock, you should go to the hospital, because that's not my problem, right? I don't deal with emergencies, and neither do you. Right?

So between noon and one I go on my email and I go on my Slack channel and I check Trello. That is when I get into those reactive tasks. Because ultimately as business owners, as CEOs of our business, we are going to have to put out fires, right? We are going to have to deal with that stuff.

Whether you have a team or whether you don't, ultimately we are going to have to get into fire-putting-out mode. But I don't want us to start our day with that because it's very reactive. It probably triggers our fight-or-flight to some degree, and it basically starts off our day in this really stressful mode.

Then sometimes you just can't get that shit out of your head for the rest of the day. It totally interferes with your ability to actually create, be creative and actually finish the tasks that ultimately move your business forward. Okay?

I challenge you to try this out and let me know. Come to our Instagram account at 360 Health Biz Podcast. Leave us a comment, send us a DM. Comment on this video because I am on IGTV right now. If you want to hang out with me in video, you can head to IGTV. But if you're just listening on the podcast, that's cool too.

But let me know if this helps, because this has been a really big game changer for me. Because as soon as I'm on email, I'm off on a tangent. Sometimes I'm like, "Oh, I'll just quickly check my email," and like an hour later I'm just finally finishing all the stuff that I needed to do.

I also find that when I wait until noon to go into that reactive state, I'm a little bit in a better head set for it because I feel good because I'm like, "Well, I've already completed X and X tasks. I feel good. I've gotten a head start on that."

Now I am consciously opening my email or realizing that there's going to be some stuff in there that I don't like, that I don't want to deal with. There's going to be some fires to put out. There's going to be some stuff I'm going to have to go on the runaround for. That is okay. I put aside time for that, then I check once more at the end of the day.

But I challenge you to just not go on your fucking email first thing in the morning, especially not before breakfast, before morning routine, before coffee. You know, like I said, this puts you into a reactive state.

So try this out. Let me know how it goes. Send us a DM on Instagram. Tell us if this helps. Or if you're listening on the podcast right now, take a screenshot, share it to your Instagram stories, mention us at 360 Health Biz Podcast and let us know, did this help? Because we would love to know. Because personally, this has been a really big game changer for me.

All right, I hope this helps, guys. Remember, I'm Kendra Perry. Next week we will have a full episode for you on the 360 Health Biz Podcast. We will talk to you then!

Use Facebook Ads Effectively to Grow Your Business with Meg Brunson

  • Watch us here
  • Listen to us here

Have you put a crap load of money into Facebook advertising only to hear crickets? You aren’t alone. Like many marketing things, there is an actual strategy required to be successful with Facebook ads. But where does one start? Should you wing it, should you DIY it, should you hire someone, what kind of budget do you look at? In today’s 360 Health Biz Podcast episode, we have Meg Brunson to break this all down for us…plus more!

Before you even start putting out Facebook ads, there are three things you absolutely MUST have..a proven product (with a proven sales funnel), and email list with an email sequence, and some money to play around with because like we have said in previous episodes, social media marketing is all about testing.

In addition to testing Facebook ads, in this episode we discuss:
- the difference between a lead and a conversion
- how Facebook ad algorithm works
- what can & can’t be advertised on Facebook
- the biggest things that health and wellness businesses get flagged for on Facebook
- the do’s and don’t for ad images
- how to write engaging Facebook ad copy
- scheduling Facebook ads & the review process
- Facebook pixels

Meg is a former Facebook employee who provides marketing support to parents who want to build their business without feeling guilt over the "balance" of family & entrepreneurship. Her clients enjoy predictable leads/traffic and positive ROI within 3 months - and spend more time making happy memories with their kids than they do stressed over their marketing.

Connect with Meg:

Take Meg’s quiz, What is missing from your Facebook marketing strategy?:

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Christine H.: Hello everyone, and welcome to this new episode of the 360 Health Biz Podcast. Today, you are being greeted by my wonderful, sexy, beautiful, smart and [inaudible 00:00:14] today, cohost [Stace 00:00:17] Kendra. By myself, Christine Hansen. We also have a very, very special guest for you here, and it's very timely because we have a huge rant yesterday on YouTube about this topic. Strap your seat belt on because this is going to be a juicy one.

Christine H.: It's going to save you tons of money and it's going to make you tons of money, and what's not to love about that? Without further ado, we're going to introduce her, so Kendra, take it away.

Kendra: All right. We have Meg Brunson here. She is a former Facebook employee, which is very exciting, who provides marketing support to parents who want to build their business without feeling guilt over the balance of family and entrepreneurship. I love that. Your clients enjoy predictable leads, traffic, and positive ROI within three months, and spend more time making happy memories with their kids than they do stressing over their marketing. Awesome. Welcome Meg. Thank you for being here.

Meg Brunson: Thank you for having me.

Christine H.: Brilliant copy, by the way.

Meg Brunson: Well thank you.

Kendra: Well, I love that so much. Before we started and before we hit the record button, you were telling us a little bit about your life right now. You can tell us a little bit more about what you're up to and how you got into Facebook ads and Facebook marketing.

Meg Brunson: Yeah, so let me start back a little ways. I was always a little bit entrepreneurial, but for a long time I was just side hustling it until my third pregnancy. When I got terribly sick almost died at times, and told my husband, "I'm done punching a clock and I'm going to do this entrepreneurship thing full time. I'm going to make it work, I'm going to figure it out." That's what I did, I was kind of an accidental entrepreneur, as I like to call it. I had to figure out marketing.

Meg Brunson: At that time, it was a little bit different because this was, gosh, seven, eight years ago. Facebook marketing was totally different than it is now, but I leveraged it and loved it, and was very successful with it then. I quickly became kind of go-to-person in my circles for Facebook ads. This is a very abbreviated story. We moved across the country. I interviewed for a job at Facebook. I almost didn't even get the interview because they were like, "Wait, you were a criminal justice major and you've got no experience with traditional marketing channels. Are you sure this is job you want to apply for?"

Meg Brunson: I was like, "Oh, yeah. I've thrown myself into learning this stuff." They gave me the interview and were like, "We're going to test your knowledge, this isn't just" ... "Yeah, I'm fine. I'll do it." I interviewed, I got the job. I worked at Facebook for about a year, so it wasn't a terribly long time and it was quite simple [inaudible 00:02:59]. I tasted the entrepreneurial freedom and flexibility. I at that point had four children, and I just didn't want to punch a clock. I didn't want to put 40 hours in at any job, no matter how-

Kendra: Yeah. I get that.

Meg Brunson: -more present to my family. I left Facebook, I built my business on my own for two years before I left my four bedroom home. We piled my entire family, my husband and I, and four kids into a 35 foot RV. We've been traveling the United States for four months now, with the goal of hitting all 48 contiguous States in a year. We're 28 States in.

Christine H.: Wow. I'm a huge fan of tiny house nation and [OCA Haida 00:03:46] stuff. I can only imagine, but we did. Okay, I'm a drama queen. You have to know, I do love my luxuries, but we did 10 days of ... It's not [inaudible 00:03:57], it's much smaller. It's like one of these Kempster kind of things, like the California thing than where you have the car and you have your, you can lift the roof and stuff. We did make it happen, but it's just not my thing. Having four children in there, I'm like, "Woman, there's something different to you?"

Christine H.: I don't know. I'd use my mind entirely, but I think it's the best story ever. Yeah, obviously, it says as something I think about entrepreneurship. I agree, you can never go back. It's just once you know it, once that flame is kindled, there's just no way that it's ever going to go back. Facebook is just, it's the coolest thing in the world. I would know to say that I've worked for Facebook, it's just so fun. You could just have my coffee and it would have been fine.

Christine H.: What obviously was so interesting to us was that, your business that you've now been building is on Facebook ads. One of the things that we vented about was that, people even very beginner beginners. Let's say, people who happen a little bit in business but haven't really had lots of clients yet or who have maybe just created a course without even looking at what they can do or without experience of [inaudible 00:05:13] sold in different words, but in essence that Facebook ads is the silver bullet.

Christine H.: If you have a huge ad budget, you will see a return in investment guaranteed. I will quote, and the reason why I can run, I know a lot about this business because we both been working with Facebook managers. We've both invested tons of money and we did the whole, that was like a year ago, I would say. We did the whole weapon off funnel off thing and it went wrong in so many ways. We left a lot of money on the table.

Christine H.: We talked about how you actually need to know what you're selling, but I think it woke us a little bit through when is the golden time to actually say, "Okay, I'm ready for Facebook ads." Should you wing it, should you DIY it, should you hire someone, what kind of budget do you look at? Also, because we are in the health space, what are the challenges you might expect there that, let's say, if you hire someone who's only used to work with business coaches or with maybe product services, might not expect and probably gauge wrong.

Meg Brunson: Oh, there's so much.

Christine H.: Go ahead.

Meg Brunson: How much time do we have? I would say, before you start running Facebook ads, there's a couple of things that you should have clear. The first one is, I really honestly believe you should have a proven product that's made money. [crosstalk 00:06:46]. That's the most important part. But Mark Zuckerberg, CEO of Facebook, he has enough money, so do not run ads on Facebook just to donate to his fund. He doesn't need your money. Do not be investing in Facebook ads until you have a plan to get that money back.

Meg Brunson: I think one of the number one mistakes I see people make is they're like, "Oh well, I just posted really good and Facebook told me if I spent $20, I would reach 10,000 more people and so I boosted the post." I'm [inaudible 00:07:21], "Did you make any money or I don't know. You just donated $10 to the Zuckerberg fund, you don't even know what it did for you." I tell people to ignore those little messages from Facebook.

Meg Brunson: Those are like the candy bars in the grocery store aisle. [inaudible 00:07:42], they're quick, they're easy. It's Facebook's way of getting you to experiment and spend some money, which I don't think is a bad idea. But I think people do it too quickly before they really even understand how Facebook ads work. I did the same thing. I'm going to be really honest here, we were in '70, I made some of the same mistakes. I was running Facebook ads and at the time, I was trying to get people to join my list. That was my number one goal.

Meg Brunson: I would boost posts then I would look at my list to be like, "Well, I got these many people and normally I get this many people so it's working, I think." Then I found ads manager and there were all these different ads you could run. I'm an official person, a creative artsy person. I created a couple and I was like, "Well, they all look the same, so it doesn't really matter. I'll just run this one."

Meg Brunson: Now I know better, that's not how ads work. Number one, have a proven product, meaning that you're getting sales from it. It's important to know that you're driving traffic to an offer that people want, that your copy is right. Maybe the product is fine but your copy is not right, so prove that funnel and you can get that traffic organically from Facebook groups.

Meg Brunson: There's so many ways to get those initial sales that just not require throwing a ton of money into Facebook ads. That's number one; you need to have a funnel, a product. You need to have an email list and an email sequence.

Kendra: [inaudible 00:09:25] with that. We have people who didn't even have list. They were selling stuff and they didn't have an email list. That was just like tears in my eyes, like seriously.

Meg Brunson: I've had clients that are like, "Oh no, I don't use an email service. Can you just email me each lead as they come in." I'm like, "You've got to get a list. You need a list." People will say email marketing is dead. One of the things that I think a lot of people do is; they look at themselves and they'll say, "I don't open a lot of promotional emails, therefore, nobody does," and it's not true.

Christine H.: No, it's not.

Meg Brunson: Email marketing is not that. You need to have a sequence.

Kendra: You do. I'm guilty of being [inaudible 00:10:05] investing and my funnel is one welcome email. But I do have a weekly blog post that's going out biweekly, once a week it's for sleep and the other week is business. I have something created every week. I have to say, most of my friends aren't on my email list. But I've really with looking with Instagram and things, and how unreliable it is, it's 2020, it's for me back to the email.

Kendra: I can [inaudible 00:10:31] priority focus. I left it aside a little bit, but now that I'm like, "Okay, I have everything set up." Actually, I can now really focus on it and have the subscribers. I purge often and I throw people out if they're inactive for 30 days and it leaves me with a really, really good pool of people. It's back in my priorities. I think you can do it in ways, you can say this [inaudible 00:10:56] a lot of time.

Kendra: It's not, I think the first thing you need to do to really focus on building the list. I think it focus on building the product, the list will have been part of it. But for sure, I totally agree that email marketing is dead, right? I can tell.

Meg Brunson: No matter what your field or your expertise at, there are other people who do what you do. I am not the only Facebook ads manager in the world, but I'm just not. No matter what you do, sleep, there are other people that do ... No matter what you do, so you have to think about that. If somebody wants your product or your service, they've got a selection of people to go with. You need to hook them with your freebie, get them onto your list.

Meg Brunson: Then, how many times do you buy a product that you've never heard of before? You don't. You like it, you follow it, you research it, you get more information and you make the purchase later. I've heard seven touches. It could take seven touches, sometimes it takes more, sometimes it takes them less. People need to know and trust you, and I feel like that's one of those cliche things that everybody sells. But it's cliche for a reason, because-

Kendra: I agree. Exactly. I think you need to know that they can trust you or they need to, right from the gate, know who you are. Which is why we teach how to use your own voice, how to even figure out what your voice is, so that you can shortcut the process. Because people usually don't follow me for a long time. It's impulse buying because they are [inaudible 00:12:29], but it's an exception. Mainly in-house, it is long stock before they get in touch. That's what it is [inaudible 00:12:38].

Meg Brunson: Yeah. I know I'm kind of jumping around, but having the email list, having a proven funnel and then I think having money to play with. I don't mean we're just going to throw money away here, but ads are not a guarantee. I have to tell people this, I feel like I'm the worst salesperson because I'm brutally honest.

Christine H.: No. We're honest. It's the best sales per se.

Meg Brunson: I had a woman say, "Well, you're not making me feel very confident about this." I was like, "Well, I think there's a lot of things you have to do before we're going to see the return. I'm happy to work with you through that, but I don't think we're going to see a return in the first two or three months." She's like, "Well, then-

Christine H.: Because I feel so many people take the hard-earned cash that they've just earned, and it's like the last hurrah. They're going to say, "Okay, now I'm just going to invest it in. That's what's going to help me to make it." What kind of budget do we even look at? Because I think people have no clue how much they could need to invest or even figure out what Facebook likes and what it doesn't. What are we talking about, is it just 100 bucks, is 1,000? I was amazed that, I think people have no clue.

Meg Brunson: It really depends upon your goals and it depends on your funnel. I'll break that down a little bit because I know that's fluffy and it doesn't really answer your question. I want to look at like a typical funnel, where you want to get a lead on your email list, and then you want to get a conversion. This is very basic, like two step right [inaudible 00:14:19]. The cost for getting one lead is going to be less than the cost for getting one conversion, right?

Meg Brunson: It just makes sense because there's less skin in the game, it's easier for somebody to make that decision. If you want to run a lead-ad, you're going to need to spend less money than if you're running a conversion. I'm just trying to break down those basics.

Christine H.: By the way, what's between lead and conversion?

Meg Brunson: A lead is an email. I'm going to give you this piece of value, whether it's an opt-in or a blog post, or whatever. I'm going to give you some value and you're going to give me your email. Now you've obtained a lead. There's two ways I should say. You can do that as a conversion ad, but you can also run it as a lead generation campaign. Which is, I'm going to be honest, my favorite. The difference is, the conversion ads, you're driving traffic to your website, to your opt-in page.

Meg Brunson: We've got it all nice and pretty email, and [inaudible 00:15:18]. Generation ad is, it's all on Facebook so you don't need an opt-in page. This is really great for people who are not as tech savvy, maybe they don't have a landing page builder or may be to be just have a WordPress website, and they don't have ClickFunnels, or Kartra, or Kajabi, or something. With the lead generation ads, when the user clicks the button to learn more or sign up, it's a pop-up window internally on Facebook.

Meg Brunson: It loads faster than your opt-in page; one, because it's internal and it will also automatically populate information from the user's Facebook page. If you're asking for email, it'll automatically populate the email. That either, they use to sign into Facebook with, the most recent email they've used on Facebook and another lead-ad. It makes it really quick and easy. It's mobile optimized and everything happens on mobile, everything. Mobile is like 95 something where they see less percent of Facebook traffic.

Meg Brunson: Lead-ads are really great. Then after they submit the information, you can direct them to a thank you page and you can use Zapier. Is a third-party integration tool to link Facebook lead-ads to whatever CRM you're using: Mailchimp ConvertKit, Kartra, Infusionsoft, literally anything. I really like that for generating leads because it's quick, it's easy and it works.

Meg Brunson: Then when I'm talking about conversions, I'm talking about selling your product or service. Whether it's a course or a strategy session, or something you're actually going to pop in the mail and send to them. [inaudible 00:16:58] because that requires money, so it's going to be more expensive. You might get leads for a dollar a lead, or sometimes they're more expensive. I also tell people, it depends upon your niche, what you're selling.

Meg Brunson: At one point last, I had two clients at the same exact time. One was getting leads for $25 per lead and one was getting leads for 25 cents a lead. They were both thrilled. It can be $5 leads. On the back-end, she was selling into a series of products that culminated up to $10,000 coaching plan. Her return justified the higher lead costs. Then the 25 cent leads were like a parenting blog and she was leveraging them to get more sponsors and stuff. That was really great for her.

Meg Brunson: There's not like a cost per lead that's baseline, but it really depends upon your business, your nerves and how you're able to convert them on the back-end after getting them on your list. Which is why that email metric sequence is not to be ignored. Understanding those basics, now I want to step back and explain how Facebook ad algorithm works. When you select what type of ad you want to run and the objective, your campaign level of those ads. In order for Facebook to optimize correctly, you need to get 50 of those actions, 50.

Meg Brunson: Here's what conversion, again, I feel like I use that word a lot and it means a lot of different things, but 50 of those actions in order for the campaign to optimize. What'll happen is, you're going to say, let's just use leads as an example, the lead-ad. You're going to run a lead-ad and you build an audience. Let's just say there's a million people in the audience. I'm going to try to keep numbers relatively easy.

Meg Brunson: Facebook at the very beginning is going to serve this ad out to some people in your audience. All million will not see it, some people. As people start to respond to get leads, Facebook's going to say, "Oh, so these four people responded, what makes them unique from the other 12 people who didn't respond yet?" Then it's going to try to find the people in your audience that are most likely to give you their lead information, so that it can optimize the process.

Meg Brunson: Facebook, many people do not [inaudible 00:19:41], but they want you to be successful. Yes, they want to take your money because they're a business and that's one way that they generate revenue. If you watched the Mark Zuckerberg in front of Congress, you learned that. But they want you to be successful because if you get what you want, you're going to spend more money with them.

Meg Brunson: They're not trying to trick you, and I love taking all your money so that you're broken, upset, and never come back. It's much more lucrative if you can tell Facebook what you want, then Facebook can deliver it and then you keep coming back for more. When you set that ad, you need to get those 50 conversions, which I'm coming back to how much money you should part with this.

Meg Brunson: In the beginning, you need to test it out if you've never run a Facebook ads. You may need to put $100 into it and see how much are your cost per leads. I could talk for days about tips to get that lower and best practices with targeting, and creative, and copy, and all that stuff. But just general big picture, figure out what your cost per lead is.

Meg Brunson: Then multiply it by 50, because you need to get 50 of those in order for your ad to optimize. Now worst case scenario, you need to get 50 within a week. But the sooner you can get those 50, the better. If you can afford to get 50 in a day, that should be your budget.

Kendra: Got it. Awesome. [crosstalk 00:21:07].

Christine H.: -front-load the ad a little bit. Front-load, spend more money up front to get it to optimize quickly. Then you can downsize as you figure out what your cost per lead is and what you actually want to spend, and the ad is optimized, right?

Meg Brunson: Sure. I think it's also important, you should be making money off these ads. If the ads are [inaudible 00:21:26] you're closing sales, you shouldn't have to downsize that. You're going to want [inaudible 00:21:32] because it's going to come back at you with a profit. But again, talking about having a little money to play with, if you're just starting out, you're going to be starting with something like lead generation.

Meg Brunson: Something that's more top funnel, if you will; awareness, building that knowledge trust factor. You're not going to go right in for the kill in month one.

Christine H.: I think that's so important for people to understand because they have everything ready. It's all shiny. Then you can get that on [inaudible 00:22:02] or whatever site, and then they're like, "Okay, now let's sell this baby," and I was like, "Wow."

Kendra: Yeah. I think you guys talked about it when I had been randomly dropping off through this call because of my shitty wifi connection. But I think with health and wellness, it can be a longer touch point. People take more time to warm up. We actually talked about this yesterday. Christine has a pretty quick conversion, probably because she's done a really good job of doing her media appearances and being featured in a lot of places.

Kendra: You've got street cred. But for me, people will creep me for a long time. Especially when I was in health and wellness, people would come out of the woodworks all the time that, "I've been following you for three years." I'm like, "[crosstalk 00:22:40], where did you come from?" But that's the thing with health and wellness, it's personal. [crosstalk 00:22:47].

Christine H.: Yeah. People should just be aware that this might take them a little bit longer.

Meg Brunson: Exactly. You need to have the money to be able to invest a month or two before starting to see that return. Again, there's ways to get those costs down, but it's not always as quick and easy. Even when you hire a professional, because marketing is still a game you've got to play and Facebook changes all the time. Having a professional on hand who feels 100% on that platform, it's easier for me to respond to these changes than other people who are trying to juggle 10 million things.

Meg Brunson: But there's still an element of fasting. With Facebook marketing, you should always be testing, always. The testing process is never over because marketing changes every day. Your competition, I hate that word, but-

Kendra: It is what is, where business is.

Meg Brunson: They're trying to change to be ... Everybody wants to be the best, and try unique and different approaches in order to capture the attention of your audience. So you should always, always, always be testing

Christine H.: I agree. That is a good point.

Kendra: It's so true for all of online business, right? I think, I talk to a lot of coaches who they think they can just build this perfect business behind the scenes and then just release it out into the internet world and be like, "There it is." I'm like, "No. That's not how you build a successful business. You have to try a shitload of things; like fail, fail, fail, fail, fail. That didn't work, try again, fail. Keep going, cry a little bit, but get up, keep going."

Kendra: That's what builds a successful business, and it's true for Facebook ads. It's true for everything, right?

Meg Brunson: Yeah. Exactly.

Christine H.: Let's talk a little bit about, you've had so many different clients. I think the budget, everyone has an idea that it's not just a little slot machine where you just throw something in once and you get the jackpot. It's just not how it works. Let's talk a little bit about the challenge in that health sector. I think it might be a little bit different than products or even business coaching.

Christine H.: What is the appearance of that? I just started little bit before that with sleep, you want me to get the band because as soon as it read sleep, the dirty little filthy means, it thinks it's ridiculous facts, and it's no. It's the [inaudible 00:25:15] we sleep is another word, it's just sleeping. But for me, I usually get, immediately the ad is not approved. Then if it is, I see it very, very low relevancy score.

Christine H.: It's like Facebook is putting on the brakes because it's careful. It's like, "Okay, we'll let her play, but we have to be very careful who's going to see it because we have to be afraid of who might complain." Me, it's just like I gave up and I want to get back in the game, listening to you with very softly, just constantly having some lead generation thing to figure it out.

Christine H.: But it's been a very frustrating journey for me. Tell me a little bit about the client experiences that you've had, things that you maybe figured out. Because I really want to have anyone who's out there listening right now to really not have that experience that I did.

Meg Brunson: Sure. I think the first key is having an understanding of why Facebook has those roles to be on [inaudible 00:26:14]. Facebook's number one concern is not with businesses, unfortunately for us as business owners. Their number one concern is with the user experience, so the people that are in your audience. That can be frustrating. But at the end of the day, it's actually [inaudible 00:26:32] for us because it keeps those audiences on the platform so that we can reach them.

Meg Brunson: They've done a lot of research, not only into Facebook ad history over the past however many years, but just marketing in general and to what people respond to, and what people don't respond to. I don't know if you've ... I'm sure everybody's been to a website. Where you scrolls to the bottom and there's images that are so gross, you know what I mean, the ads and the gross images or just like weird things?

Meg Brunson: They don't want that stuff on Facebook. [inaudible 00:27:07], you're [inaudible 00:27:08] and you have to scroll away, and it's-

Kendra: Like the porn shit that you get showed when you try to stream illegal television online, right?

Christine H.: That and hypothetical scenarios.

Kendra: I see all the time. Oh, my gosh.

Meg Brunson: Gosh, I was thinking of those weird [inaudible 00:27:24] videos, that's not my thing at all.

Kendra: Oh, some people would be really into that.

Christine H.: Yeah, no. I get it.

Meg Brunson: Anyhow, stuff like that, they don't want that stuff on the platform. They also don't want anything illegal on the platform or dangerous. You can't [inaudible 00:27:42], this goes into the health sector CBD. CBD is big right now. Anything that at all is derived from the marijuana plant, Facebook does not allow so it does not matter that it is not hallucinogenic. They don't care.

Christine H.: They don't care. It's stuff that-

Meg Brunson: It cannot be on there. I'll tell you that, if that's your health and wellness business, there are ways around it. There are ways to market, lead-ads are a great way. But it's nearly impossible to run Facebook ads for a CBD business. I personally will not take them done for you. Ad management client, I will work with them as a mentorship plan, but I have seen too many accounts get shut down because people just push, push, push the limits and then Facebook is like, "No. Done."

Meg Brunson: That's one area where there's not a lot of wiggle room, and I hate being the person that says no, but I could do probably a whole other episode just on some ways to get around that. Anyhow, so that's one example. But the other biggest things that health and wellness businesses get flagged for, are images. So the images that they choose. Facebook for example, does not want you to zoom in on any body parts.

Meg Brunson: I worked with a dentist and the dentist always had a picture. It always happened to be a blonde, white woman with big beautiful teeth and would zoom in on their big perfect smile, and Facebook would be like, "No, they don't want to show perfection, they don't want-

Christine H.: Got you. If I had a lady on a pillow, it would be like, "No, too much skin and nudity," and like, "I see everyone else half-naked all around, even on Facebook." But yeah, and ads, I find as soon as it detects with this algorithm that this skin show and an urge, that's like, "No."

Meg Brunson: I'll tell you too on the topic of images, you should always be testing more than one image, always. With that, one of my favorite stories is with that dentist. Because like I said, it was always blonde, perfect teeth and she said, "That's what people wanted to see." Well, she was in Miami, which has a huge Hispanic population. I was like, "You need some diversity in your ads."

Meg Brunson: Everybody should have diversity in their ads, but that's a whole other soapbox. You need diversity in your ads. I worked with her to come up with some other images to test, and one of the images we used, actually had nothing to do with teeth. It was three fingers squeezed together. I don't know if you're a girl scout, but it's the little girl scout promise.

Meg Brunson: They had faces drawn on the fingertips and then around the middle, it looks like they have little arms that are hugging them together. Had a solid background, and she's like, "But there's no teeth, what does it have to do with the dentist?" I was like, "We're going to put it in the copy." We used copy that said something like, "No matter what brings you into our office, you are going to leave happy."

Meg Brunson: It was like offering them a free visit or I can't remember what the offer was, now is a long time ago. But that ad outperformed everything and she was like, "But there's no teeth." It doesn't matter now. Did you get the leads, did they convert? Sometimes and everybody's seen the wacky ads, which is an image and you're like, "What does that have to do with the product?"

Meg Brunson: That is somebody just testing out a strategy of getting your attention with a weird image or a cute image, or a funny image, and then selling you something in the copy. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Test out multiple images, don't focus too much on one specific part of the body. Another thing you cannot do, is before and afters, which would be hard for health and wellness people.

Meg Brunson: You're selling like an acne cream and you want to show a face that's at the end on the face, it's clear or without makeup and with makeup, or before weight loss and after weight loss. These are things that you want to show, Facebook does not want that. It also goes off of health and wellness. Sometimes, I believe people can do a professional organizing gets lagged, because they have a messy room in a clean room.

Meg Brunson: That's not really what it's made for, but it's just kind of funny. So, no before and afters. Now if you really want to show a before and after, there are ways around it. You can use a carousel ad, you can show steps. So not just before and after, but like; step one, step two, step three, week one, week two, week three. You can put that in a video.

Meg Brunson: But you still want to be careful because the reason that the rule is there, isn't because they hate health and wellness businesses. It's not because they hate before after comparisons. It's because traditionally, users don't like it. I'm one of those people, I have a lot of health coaches and weight loss coaches, and stuff. I don't want to call out any one specific. They post the before and after pictures in it, it looks [crosstalk 00:32:59].

Christine H.: -different photo, it's been different lining. It's just [inaudible 00:33:03], I can get you seriously. I get it. They're not going to Instagram. You're supposed to getting lot and it just crosses me out, like-

Kendra: Right. I agree. I don't like before and after. I honestly, it pisses me off because it just highlights the body image of weight loss. It's just like a lot of people are striving, especially with women, they're striving to have this perfect body. It's airbrushed, it's not legit and really we should be more concerned about health and celebrating body types of all sorts. But again, that's another soapbox, you've [inaudible 00:33:32]. [crosstalk 00:33:32].

Meg Brunson: I would say that the other big [inaudible 00:33:39] a lot with health and wellness has to do with referring to a person's attributes in the copy. Now-

Christine H.: What [inaudible 00:33:46]? I had to really think about how to run a copy of that. God, it's like you only get a certain set of numbers of words that you can play with. It's like you have your original copy and then it's like, "Okay, actually this, this, this, this, this, this, this, you cannot use." "God, now what can I use?" I'd say. But walk us through [inaudible 00:34:06].

Kendra: Once you figure it out, it's not that hard. But I'd love to hear what you have to say, Meg.

Meg Brunson: Facebook doesn't want to be creepy. There's something creepy about signing on to Facebook. This has happened to me, where I scroll down and it's a shirt that's like Brunson power or something, and Brunson's my last name. I'm like, "How do they know my last name?" Well, it'll be like, and I know how they might be.

Meg Brunson: Or it'll be a shirt about Gemini, and I'm like, "How do they know it's a Gemini?. It's creepy," you know what I mean? They don't want you to be creepy, so they don't want you to post something that makes the user feel like they're being stalked, because that's not a positive experience.

Kendra: They do. But yes, I get it.

Meg Brunson: I'm not saying they don't sneak through, some don't sneak through. You also don't want your user to have that experience, either way they feel. I don't know, ashamed or nervous, or whatever, because you've called out the fact that they have a medical condition or that they [inaudible 00:35:17].

Kendra: Got it.

Meg Brunson: Be careful not to call out. What I typically do is, I look for the words, you and your in my copy. Because not always, but typically when you're using those words, you're within that sentence, you're referring to an attribute that they have. If you say something, like your weight, well, you're now referring to my weight. Whatever you say before or after that word is indicating whether you think I'm unhealthy, whether it's large or small, or whatever. That's an attribute.

Meg Brunson: You need to be saying that, and there's a couple of different ways you can do that. You could take the approach of, my clients typically. Like, "My clients typically benefit as I share." I hate being on the spot, it takes me forever, right?

Christine H.: Yeah. I know it's fine, but I think it's the idea that we have.

Meg Brunson: "My clients typically benefit from better self-esteem and more confidence after working with me in my coaching program," something like that. Now you're not saying, "Hey girl, you got too much weight." You're saying, "My clients typically feel there's transformation, and if that's a transformation that you long for, you should keep reading." I like going that way because it's also tooting your own horn a little bit.

Meg Brunson: You have clients; number one, if you're new. You want to let people know that you've got clients and that they're seeing these transformations. You could also do it generally, people typically, parents typically. New moms often say that [inaudible 00:37:01]. Now you're not saying that, this person often says that, new moms often say that. If that person is a new mom, she'll resonate with that.

Meg Brunson: Instead of saying you or your, trying to say it in more general terms. Also, focusing on what you're teaching, what that process is and that what the results will be. "You're going to lose 30 pounds," no. You're going to learn how to meal-plan effectively. You're going to learn how to build an exercise regimen into your already hectic schedule. You're going to learn these things.

Meg Brunson: Don't talk about what their results are going to be, because that's another area that crosses over from attributes into those claims. Unrealistic claims-

Christine H.: All right. Yeah.

Meg Brunson: But those are other red flags that we see a lot with health and wellness.

Kendra: Yeah. Another way I've gotten around it is that actually speaking about my own experience. By using I, instead of you and your. I've definitely done that talk in general terms, "Women often feel this way, blah, blah, blah." But I've also just spoken to my own experience in a lot, and that seems to get approved as well. But you're right. As you use your, or you or your, it's unapproved. It's like you just have to stay away from those words.

Meg Brunson: It's not those words that are the flag though, it's important to know that it's the context that those words are used in. Every once in a while, you can use them as long as you don't have the other words.

Christine H.: Yeah. Things that are typical health speak, so just to say.

Meg Brunson: Correct.

Kendra: I've had a few ads get disapproved, but when I look through them, I'm like, "No, I'm so sure I'm following all the guidelines," and you can actually request to review. Oftentimes when I do that, it'll get approved immediately. I think you requested a manual review or something like that to actually look at it and be like, "Oh no, you're good." Is that something that you can also recommend that people do if they're super sure?"

Meg Brunson: Definitely. I can give you the link directly to Facebook's policies, their ad policies. I know sometimes Facebook has so many links. But I'm happy to send that if you're going to put it in the show notes, and I would definitely review that. Facebook typically links to it and the disapproval box too, but I would go through.

Meg Brunson: Make sure you're really clear on that because they're only going to let you appeal it once and the more you appeal it, the more drama it is. But if you're positive, go ahead and do that appeal process. They typically get back to you in 24 to 48 hours. For that reason too, I'm going to say, I always try to plan my ads in advance. Try to schedule your ad two or three days in advance.

Meg Brunson: We're recording this on a Thursday. This would be a great day to schedule your ads so that you want running on Monday. Because if tomorrow they get denied, you can appeal them. Now the weekend can be a hit or miss, but hopefully they'll get approved by Monday and you're not out days. There's nothing more frustrating, and this has happened to me too.

Meg Brunson: Because I'm not a great planner for my own business. I'm so focused on my client's business and I'm like, "Oh shoot, I was supposed to get an ad up and running yesterday." I will get it up and running today, and I might have an issue with a disapproval that just needs to be appealed, because it happens even to the best of us. Then I'm two days behind them where I wanted my ads to be, and that can be stressful.

Meg Brunson: Try to plan ahead, so you'll be giving yourself much padding that the ads will get approved and then you don't have to worry about that.

Christine H.: I love that. Yeah, I think that-

Kendra: Just a question. When you schedule an ad, do they review it well, it's waiting to be scheduled? Okay, I just wanted to confirm [inaudible 00:40:52].

Meg Brunson: Yes. As soon as you hit publish, if you've got the ad scheduled to run in a week or whatever, you hit publish. It goes into the review process, it will get approved and then it'll say scheduled. It'll either say in review, it's still a review; scheduled, if it's been approved but it's waiting. Then it'll be approved [inaudible 00:41:13], running.

Christine H.: That's a really good tip. Yeah, I did. I already feel that. I love it. The Facebook ads is creepy in a way that you can do so many things that you can dive in more many ways. I know that it's different from Europe and the US because ours is always a bit stricter, so we don't have access to as many little tweaks.

Christine H.: Then at the same time, I've also had the more kind of criteria, you feed it, the higher your budget. Is that correct? The more you tell it to dial in and to exactly a certain person, the more you pay?

Meg Brunson: I don't think that, that would be correct. Because, it's going to depend upon how relevant your audience is. If you dial in, but you're dialing into the right people and they're responding, the costs that you're paying depends upon how relevant your ad is to your audience. If your audience is responding favorably and going through, and completing the action you want them to complete, then you're going to spend less money to get those actions.

Meg Brunson: It all comes back to the user experience. If people are responding to your ad, say positively, then Facebook is saying, "This is a good ad. We can serve people this ad and they're not going to get annoyed or frustrated, or upset." Favorable ways people can respond is, by number one, doing the thing. Whatever you want them to do, submitting a lead, reacting; so giving a thumbs up or a heart, or whatever, commenting, sharing.

Meg Brunson: All of that stuff is positive feedback. Now there's negative feedback. Negative feedback will be; you've got a little triangle and you hide the ad when you report that ad as offensive. It takes a little more effort to do that, but people do it. I've done it. It happens and Facebook will take note of that data, and then you're going to spend more money.

Meg Brunson: Because, Facebook is recognizing that your ad is ... It's banning you for some reason. That's the same reason. You might know, there used to be a rule, a text rule that you couldn't have more than 20% text on your images. Then last year, they got rid of that rule, but it was just, not really get rid of it because they just renamed it and reworked it. It's the same basic concept.

Meg Brunson: The more texts you have on the image, traditionally, the less reach you'll get, the higher your cost will be. However, that's really just a warning based on historical data. In real life application, I've had clients who images with text performed better than images without text, and we'd run those. It's one of those, you have to be testing it, you have to understand the rules, you have to know why they're there and then you have to keep that in mind.

Meg Brunson: Don't just put texts on an ad to make ... To put text down on the ad, has to be something that speaks to your user and improves their user experience, so that you'll get more reach. What we're talking about audiences a little bit, one thing I don't want to skip over either because it's so important. I usually talk about it first, but things take their own place sometimes, is the Facebook pixel.

Meg Brunson: I feel like that's one of the most often missed elements, especially from newbies. If you've been around the block a while, you've heard about the pixel and you probably have it installed. If you haven't heard about it, all it is, it's a little snippet of HTML coding that you copy from ads manager and you paste onto your website.

Meg Brunson: It sounds intimidating if you're not a developer, which most of us are not. I wasn't when I started, but it's not really that scary. Facebook has directions that walk you through it. If you're using Shopify, WordPress, Wix, literally just about any-

Christine H.: -videos, tutorials?

Meg Brunson: Yeah. I've got a ton of resources on that too, but Facebook has a ton. Whatever platform you use, [inaudible 00:45:23], and lets you track audiences or people who come to your website, so you can re-market to them later. It allows you to optimize your ads for conversions, so that's any action, any stuff or more action that happens on your website. Bringing them to page A, but wanting them to go to page B. That's a conversion, you could optimize your ads for that.

Meg Brunson: The third thing it does is, it unlocks data and analytics. You can use Facebook Analytics, just like Google Analytics. It's free, it's organic. You can also leverage it when you're running ads. I always caution people, one of the biggest complaints I get is that Facebook Analytics doesn't work. It's not the same as Google Analytics.

Meg Brunson: Therefore, it is wrong and it's not true. Is it okay, can I break down the difference?

Kendra: Yeah.

Meg Brunson: Okay. Google Analytics tracks based on cookies, and most people are vaguely familiar with this process. It's like they leave a little trail of cookies wherever you go, so Google can see where were you right before you came to this website. It's last click attribution. Those are the big fancy words, and that's what Google's done. That's how they track everything, that's how they report things.

Meg Brunson: But Facebook is a little more fancy and they're tracking based on where you're signed on Facebook. You're signed down on your cell phone and your computer, maybe a desktop at work, maybe a laptop, maybe an iPad or who knows? Most people are signed to Facebook from multiple devices. Because of that, Facebook can track across all those devices and it can track up to 28 days.

Meg Brunson: Google can track the last click, what happened immediately the moment before you went somewhere. Facebook can track up to 28 days. The example I always use is that, if I'm in line at the grocery store, I've got my kids with me and we're checking out at Walmart or wherever. I see an ad for the newest converse shoes, which are my like. Yeah, I'm buying those converse shoes, I have so many.

Meg Brunson: They're the newest print, I need to have them. But I'm in line, it's almost time to pay and my kids are throwing candy bars, and so I just can't. I close out of the website, get my kids home and I forget about it for two days. That's mom life happens. Three days later, I sign in, I Google converse so I can get back to their website. I go find my shoes, I buy them.

Meg Brunson: When you go to check the analytics, Google's going to say, "Came from a Google search. She Googled converse and bought the shoes." But Facebook is going to say, "She [inaudible 00:47:57] certain ad, she clicked on that ad on her phone. Three days later, she bought the shoes on desktop." Now if you were just looking at one, you want to have the full story.

Meg Brunson: If you were just looking at Google, you'd say, "My Facebook ads aren't working." But if you're looking at both, you're going to say, "This doesn't match." But once you understand how they track, you can nearly piece it together to figure out the actual story and see that the Facebook ads are contributing to your success.

Christine H.: Yeah. It's just a different process of thinking. I think that's might be also what I see with my traction because 90% of my traffic is organic. In ways that I'm not running any ads, but they're coming from Google. But now I only know that they've searched for it, like most of them are. But I think it's interesting because I don't know if they've heard it on a podcast before, maybe or they read a blog post somewhere where it was mentioned.

Christine H.: This is a really, really interesting thing for me to do some research on, to see where are they coming from. Are they coming from Pinterest, are they coming from ... Then just out of sight, out of mind, and then they Googled it. This is really, really interesting.

Meg Brunson: Facebook Analytics is cool because you can set up, you can see who's connected to your Facebook page and who visits your website, to see how much traffic. How many of your Facebook page-fans are actually visiting your website, and how many of your website visitors are actually page-fans. It's a lot of interesting information. You can get lost in the data there, but that pixel is important.

Meg Brunson: Even if you're not running ads right now, you need to get that pixel installed so that you can elaborate it in those ways and the pixel retains data for six months. Here we are, when we're recording this, it's November. You're like, "I'm not ready yet. It's too late, it's almost Christmas, I'm still too new. Whatever your excuses are, and that's fine."

Meg Brunson: In May, you're six months down the road, you started making money or whatever. The situation has changed and you're like, "We should start advertising to get ready for next year holiday season." Well now you've got six months of data where you can create an audience. There's some people who visited your website, a lookalike audience.

Meg Brunson: You can really jump into advanced advertising quicker because you've done this first initial step of getting that pixel installed, to prepare you for when you're ready to dive deep.

Christine H.: That's an amazing tip. I think everyone should go in and then [inaudible 00:50:24] that. This has been times, my head is spinning. I can imagine that people who are just starting out, I was just like, "Okay, I need to digest all of this, and then I'm going to go and implement." I think this is amazing. You mentioned that you've had a couple of resources. Tell us a bit where people can find you.

Christine H.: Then if we have some of our star players, like people who joined our mastermind, for example, we still have one [inaudible 00:50:47]. Well, I wouldn't ask for the ad. But obviously, they would have a budget, so they're going to make a ton of money then, how can they find out about you?

Meg Brunson: well, the number one resource I'd love to direct people to is, I have a quiz. I've taken a lot of pride in this little quiz because I consider it to be quite fun. I am a huge music fan and we are traveling full time, and we do a lot of dance parties on the car and whatnot. I have a quiz that will not only tell you what you can do to up-level your Facebook marketing right now. But it will assign you a theme song based on where you are, so that you can start planning a little dance party to rock out to it.

Meg Brunson: You might end up getting some journey or some [Pintrest 00:51:26] Taylor Swift or Usher, depending upon what your score is. You'll get a fun song to dance to. Plus, you're going to find out exactly what you need to do based on your business right now. That link is at I think, did I give you a URL?

Christine H.: Yeah, you did. It's going to be [crosstalk 00:51:47].

Kendra: -show notes for everyone to-

Meg Brunson: Okay.

Kendra: -your marketing on.

Meg Brunson: I just realized that, I'm sorry. Go ahead and use that link. Then you can also just go to to just find more information about me. I'm on Facebook, obviously, Instagram, not as much on YouTube but I'm trying. If you are interested in my travel stuff too, it's @familyroadventures on Instagram. Because I know a lot of people just aren't interested by that whole lifestyle.

Christine H.: Perfect. Awesome. So you work with clients in terms of being a Facebook ads manager?

Meg Brunson: Yeah. I have some clients that I run their ads for them, they're hands-off and I just do all the work. I've got some clients who are in a mentorship program, so they want to learn the ropes. I think it's really important that everybody has a basic understanding of the ads before they outsource it. I've seen too many people working at Facebook especially, who are spending big bucks on agencies who do not have their best interests in mind.

Meg Brunson: I love for people to have at least that basic information. Even if we're not going to work together, I can just give you the information to make sure you're not getting screwed over. Then I have some clients who are taking, I have a course and I've got a variety of things for do-it-yourself. Who maybe aren't quite at that level of outsourcing or burning out or one-on-one mentor.

Kendra: Brilliant.

Christine H.: Well, definitely everyone should check that out because I know we have a lot of viewers or listeners, whatever, who are really interested in running Facebook ads and we don't want you to get screwed. Go, follow Meg and get her info so that you can [inaudible 00:53:28] up for success. Meg, we really, really appreciate you coming out with us today. That was really, really enlightening.

Christine H.: I think our audience members really appreciate it as we do. To everyone listening, thank you so much. We will see you again in one week for our business bomb series, where we'll give you a super juicy tip and then your head explodes because it's that fucking juicy. All right guys, take care and we'll talk to you in a week. Bye.

Biz Bomb – Take a Break with the Timeout App

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Welcome to the 360 Health Biz podcast's Biz Bomb where we give you a super quick actionable tip for your business.

Today's tip is all about taking a break. It's very important to take regular breaks because research shows that you really shouldn't be sitting or not moving your body for longer than about 60 minutes. So, moving your body at least every hour is way more important than sitting all day and then going and crushing it at the gym or CrossFit at the end of the day. Even when you have deadlines or you're really into a project, taking breaks is crucial to your physical and mental health.

That's where the Timeout app comes in! You can adjust the settings where it notifies you to take a break (Kendra has her set up to notify her ever hour for a two minute break). And it's not just a quick little notification that comes to the right side of your screen, it actually comes up and blocks your screen. You can always X out of it, but basically it prevents you from clicking or doing anything for about five seconds.

You could set it up to be every couple of hours for 15 minutes where you could have a quick walk, get a snack, take a bathroom break...however you want to utilize that time. The important thing is that you actually take the break(s)!

Even though you may be deep into a project and you just want to finish it, we guarantee you are going to be way more productive if you do this. If you take regular breaks it helps clear your head and detoxes some of that radiation or whatever it is that we are getting from the computer screen and it just makes you more effective.

So give Timeout a try!

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Yo, guys, what's up? Kendra here for your weekly business tip. This is our Biz Bomb series, where we give you a super quick tip that helps you run your business and we try to keep it pretty actionable. Today, I want to quickly talk about an app I use to prevent myself from going into the dark computer hole. Okay.

So, I'm talking about the Time Out app. This is an app you can get in the Apple store. If you have a PC, I'm sure you can get it on that computer as well, or some version of it anyways. As you guys know, when you are working online on a computer, it's very easy to get locked into a project and then all this time passes and then suddenly you've been sitting on your computer for three hours and you feel like your brain is going to explode. I am definitely guilty of this. I love what I do so much and I can get super, super locked in on projects. And the result is that, yeah, I won't move my body for three hours and then I'll end up with a headache and I'll feel super zonked out. If I spend too much time in front of my computer, I feel a bit weird.

So, it's very important to me to take regular breaks and the research actually shows that you really shouldn't be sitting or not moving your body for longer than about 60 minutes and that is way more important. So, moving your body at least every hour is way more important than sitting all day and then going and crushing it at the gym or CrossFit at the end of the day. The research shows that that is not great for your life, for longevity, for your brain. It's not good. Okay. For me, I always need a reminder because, like I said, I get super locked in and I just want to stay in the computer hole and finish my project.

So, I use an app called Time Out. You can play with the settings and I have it set up that it reminds me to take a break every single hour. And the thing I like about it is it's not just a quick little notification that comes to the right side of your screen, it actually comes up and sort of blocks your screen. You can always X out of it, but basically it prevents you from clicking or doing anything for about five seconds. So, instead of having that automatic response to just exit out and ignore it and say, "Fuck off," basically it makes you think for a second and be like, "Okay, no, I actually need to do this. I need to take a break." You can press the button, Skip Break. You can delay it five or 10 minutes. You do have those options, but I try to be really on it and stay true to it and every hour I try to just take a break for two minutes. And again, you can set up your break.

So, I set mine up for five minutes, but you can set them up for one minute, two minutes, 10 minutes, whatever sort of jives with you. I just try to go and do something where I get some movement. So, I might do a lunge, I might do lunges around my house. Sometimes I go swing my kettlebell. Sometimes I'll just go walk around my house outside and just get some fresh air. Sometimes I will do squats. Sometimes I will skip. I have a little rebounder trampoline as well that I'll jump on for some amount of time or sometimes I just do inversions. So, I will get on my yoga mat and do a sort of quasi-headstand against the wall. I actually can't do a full headstand, but I get down so I'm on my forearms and my legs are actually up against the wall, I'm in a 90 degree angle, just to get the blood flowing into my brain.

And honestly guys, even though you're deep into a project and you're super locked in and you just want to finish it, I guarantee you are going to be way, way more productive if you do this and if you take regular breaks because it just clears the head and it kind of detoxes some of that radiation or whatever it is that we are getting from the computer screen and it just makes you more effective. On days where I just ignore my Time Out app all day or I forget to turn it on, you can actually set it up so that it starts when you open your computer, which I do now, but I just feel super fucking weird at the end of the day. I just feel tired. I feel unmotivated. I just feel like a sack of shit and I just want to sit on the couch and do nothing. But when I take my regular breaks, honestly guys, I feel so much more clear. I feel better at the end of the day and I just feel more productive and efficient overall.

So, this is really important because we're small-business owners, generally we're very passionate about what we do, and we can get locked in and totally forget to take a break to move our bodies. So, I do recommend this app. It's called the Time Out app. You can get it in the Apple store. On PC, I'm sure you can get it too. You can probably download it from Google or if not, I am sure there's some sort of comparable option, but I think this is really important. We do want to not spend all our time staring at our computer. We do want to take a break, give our eyes a break, give our brain a break, and remember to move our body and get that blood flowing.

All right, guys. I hope that was helpful. I am Kendra Perry, if you have forgotten already. And guys, if you're watching this on IGTV, we do these episodes every week on IGTV, so you can connect with me, leave me a comment, let me know. Let me know if you use some sort of other app or let me know if you're guilty for just getting locked in and not paying attention to getting breaks. And if you are on your smart phone, you're listening to the podcast, just take a quick screenshot of this episode, share it to your Instagram stories, mention @360healthbizpodcast, and just let us know what you learned and what your biggest takeaway was for this episode. All right, guys. I will see you in one week when we have a full episode with both me and my business bestie, Christine.

Succeed on LinkedIn & Create Human Connection with Scott Aaron

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Linkedin isn’t just for finding a job and post your resume. As Scott Aaron shares in our newest episode of the 360 Health Biz Podcast, Linkedin is a place to build human connection. Whaaat? How can you build human connection over the computer? 

As we have shouted from the rooftops in many episodes – you have to engage with people on any of the platforms you are using. You can’t expect to post an Instagram picture and get clients. You can’t write one article and expect to make 6 figures from it. The same goes from Linkedin – if you know how to use it (which Scott provides some key tips in this episode on how to do that) you can build a network of your ideal client and grow your network of badass health coaches. 
If you’re intimiated by Linkedin, like Christine was (before this episode!) - fear not. Scott has some simple yet impact tips to create an amazing profile and connect with likeminded folks. In this episode we discuss: 

3 things every health coach needs to do in their business (and how Linkedin helps with that) 
Linkedin content and the magic formula (hello Linkedin video!) 
- 4 key tips to succeeding on LinkedIn 
- statistics on Linkedin in comparison to Facebook & Instagram 
- the dreadful Linkedin automated message & how to make it more authentic 

As a best selling author and speaker, Scott is passionate about helping fellow entrepreneurs achieve success while building their own network organically and without complicated and costly marketing tactics. His program has helped thousands of entrepreneurs and individuals experience explosive growth following his program Linkedin Accelerator. People-focused and result driven, Scott's strategic approach to teaching others how to create wealth online and organic traffic is the game changer when it comes to competing in a saturated digital world. 

Connect with Scott Aaron:
Facebook: scott.aaron.33
Twitter: @thescottaaron
Instagram: @scottaaronlinkedin
LinkedIn: scottaaroncoach

Get Scott’s freebie, How to Optimize Your Linkedin Profile:

Connect with us on social:


Christine H.: Hello, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to this brand new episode of the 360 Health Biz Podcast. We are so excited to be talking to you, and today, there's three of us. So, we have the as always adorable, super sexy and fun, and super smart, Kendra Perry, who's here like whoa! Check out YouTube, it was her winning pose, for the win.

Christine H.: Then we have an amazing guest today who is going to talk about a topic that I'm just nuts about. So we're going to talk more about that in a second. Suspense, if you're on watching video, which you should because we have [inaudible 00:00:37]. And then you've got humble me, myself, Christine Hansen, and we are going to really blow your mind this week as we always do.

Christine H.: But before we're going to start off, we want to say a super, super huge thank you, because we've got a review and you know when that happens, our aura lights up with love and fabulous glowness. So, Kendra, what have we been told this week and this is like just a massage for my soul really. So-

Kendra Perry: Yeah, this is a massage for my ego for sure. So we have a five-star review from Chasing Vitality from the UK. So thank you to all our international listeners. The title is Great Business Podcast. "Love these two, down to earth, actionable great content. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge. It's helping me loads."

Kendra Perry: So we're so glad it is helping you Chasing Vitality. And now, we give you a virtual hug for the five-star review.

Christine H.: Kendra is a huge hugger. I'm like, "Yay, this is great!"

Kendra Perry: I know. I hug everyone.

Christine H.: I know. And I was just like, "Whoa!" Maybe that's my European thing. I don't know.

Kendra Perry: Maybe.

Christine H.: But anyway, let me introduce our guest today, and you should switch on your audio. We don't have a lot of men on our podcast so please do tune in.

Kendra Perry: It's exciting.

Christine H.: Very exciting. So as a best-selling author and speaker, Scott is passionate about how big fellow entrepreneurs achieve success, which we always like obviously. Why building their own network organically ... Oh, like that. Does that mean free? We have to check out, and without complicated and costly marketing tactics. I do like the sound of that too.

Christine H.: His program has helped thousands of entrepreneurs and individual experienced explosive growth following his program LinkedIn Accelerator. I have to say I'm getting a bit turn on with this. People-focused and result-driven, Scott's strategic approach to teaching others how to create wealth online and organic traffic is the game changer when it comes to competing in this saturated digital world.

Christine H.: Whoa, promising much? Okay. We're going to milk you like there's no tomorrow. All right, so Kendra and I are both like linked in with one of the topics that we really want you to talk about, so Kendra has her own YouTube and Instagram with knowledge and I dab a little bit in everything. I did really dived into LinkedIn a year ago, and I have to say that it was very lucrative in terms of being very focused knowing what you want and I have to say maybe the most surprising aspect for me that was people are actually friendly.

Christine H.: I don't know, I was so intimidated by LinkedIn. For me, LinkedIn was just kind of a room of suits and assholes really that I didn't really want to have anything to do with, and getting to know the people and just diving in there a little bit, people were really, really open and friendly and helpful and yeah, I also find it's a little bit clicky.

Christine H.: So there's lots of things that I want to dive into, but Scott, first of all, tell us a little bit how you actually got into this social media platform. Was it by accident? Was it very strategic? Tell us a little bit about this.

Scott Aaron: So, it was ... Well, first of all, thank you guys for having me on here. It's an honor and a pleasure. So going back to what you said earlier, yes, you can milk me for whatever you want and we can go as deep as you need to.

Christine H.: Let's not take this out of context, people.

Scott Aaron: Yes, I might. I was doing a keynote a couple of weeks ago, and I said something along the lines of that. Someone said, that's what she said. And I completely set myself up for that. Anyway, enough with the Michael Scott quotes. So everything that has happened with my speaking, with my best-selling book and everything with LinkedIn was completely by accident, but obviously on purpose.

Scott Aaron: So before we kind of dive into that, people need to know exactly how I got to where I am today and it actually transpired from something that happened to me 22 years ago. And I talked about these brain tattoo moments that we have in our life and I'm going to give you the very short version of this because I do 60-minute keynotes on just my story.

Scott Aaron: But basically, the long and the short of it is when I was 18 years old, I'm a fourth generation entrepreneur. My father owned a couple of businesses and he had left his one business to work for someone else and that ended up being one of the worst decisions that he ever made because he got actually caught up in a $9.5 million dollar insurance fraud case which landed him in federal prison for two and a half years.

Scott Aaron: And this was my introduction to entrepreneurship because in the process of him getting sentenced and going away to prison, he had bought a failing fitness club in downtown Philadelphia that was turned over to me when I was 19. So I was-

Kendra Perry: Great gift.

Scott Aaron: Yes, here. Here it is. So that was my introduction into entrepreneurship but I was always a people person and this is back in 1998 before really the internet was what it is today. There was no social media so everything was grass-roots connecting with other people. And I became a certified sports nutritionist, personal trainer, group fitness instructor.

Scott Aaron: So everything that I did in the fitness industry was revolved around helping people and getting people results. So the one gym turned into two gyms when my father came back and we ended up selling both of them in 2003 for a million dollars. So I became a millionaire at 24. In 2004, we opened up our third and final gym which ended up getting put into my name because my parents' credit was bottomed out, so everything had to get financed by me, which I didn't really know what that meant at 25 years old.

Scott Aaron: But two and a half years later, in around 2007, 2008, I found myself in $1.5 million of liability debt. So I had another hole to crawl out of. I grew a very successful personal training practice and then between 2008 and 2014, I was married and divorced twice. And so that was a big change for me because I really had to learn emotional maturity, but I was beating myself up a lot. But it also left me with one of the greatest gifts which is my now seven-year-old beautiful little boy Taylor. So becoming a dad was one of the greatest accomplishments that I've ever accomplished.

Scott Aaron: In 2013, a year before my second divorce, I found network marketing and I'm sure some of the listeners on here know about it. And I've always been psychologically unemployable from day one so I never had [crosstalk 00:07:49] I've never worked for anyone. So I didn't think this was a pyramid or a Ponzi but I'm always networking. I'm always making recommendations. I was sending people to vitamin shop and GNC and all of these places and I said, "Fuck this." I'm like, "Instead of sending them there, I could be the one supplying them what they need."

Scott Aaron: So I grew this business within two years to match my income as a personal trainer. And after I exited my second marriage, I had to reinvent myself again but in 2015, I made a pivot. I basically found out two things. Number one, I found out through selling a property that I owned in downtown Philadelphia that my house that I sold was being used as collateral for the gym's equipment.

Scott Aaron: So when I went to go sell the property, there was about $35,000 worth of equity. Instead of getting 35K, I got $837 because the balance of the lease would take off by my house. So then I had to have a conversation with my father. I sat him in my office and I said, "Listen, this partnership is not working anymore. I'm going to be taking over this gym myself. You're going to have to go find somewhere else to train," and I can tell you that that was probably the best decision for both of us. And if he was on here with me, he would say the same thing because it allowed us to get back to father and son again.

Scott Aaron: We were never meant to be business partners. We were always meant to be father and son. He's an amazing father, an amazing grandfather and me going on this road myself was the best decision. There was one last thing that happened and it kind of curtailed into LinkedIn. So I was looking through some paperwork because now I was suspicious, and I found one document that changed everything. And this was the document for the lease of my gym.

Scott Aaron: And it said, "Guarantor," and it had my signature above it. And for those that don't know what that means, if you're the guarantor of the lease and that business goes under, if you violate the lease, any money that is owed was going to get turned over to me personally, which at that point was around $450,000. And I was at my wit's end. That was kind of like the cherry on top.

Scott Aaron: So, around the same time, I saw social media changed. I saw Facebook and Instagram going down these rabbit holes and people now had to pay a shit ton of money for Facebook ads. All I saw was sports bras and yoga pants on Instagram. Everybody was just selling their stuff and their bodies and pretty selfies and all of these stuff that I'm like, "This is removing me from my core foundation which is connecting with human beings."

Scott Aaron: So I jumped on to LinkedIn, had no clue how to use it. I had a profile but that was about it, but I remember something that my first mentor said to me. And she said to me, she goes, "You have to wake up each day, look yourself in the mirror and you need to ask yourself, how am I going to connect with me today?"

Scott Aaron: And it clicked. And I said, "That's it. If I'm going to be on a business platform, I need to look for the business mirror image of myself," which at that time was a personal trainer, sports nutritionist and gym owner. So I started building this network of people that were just like me and I started setting up phone call after phone call and I was closing people into my businesses and I was making money. And I said, "Shit, I think I had something here."

Scott Aaron: So I reached out to a friend of mine who was also an entrepreneur and I said, "Joey, listen. You got to get on LinkedIn." And I said, "Here, I want you to do these few things," that I knew at that time because it was still new to me four years ago, and I said, "Text me in a week and let me know what happens." A week later, he texted me. He said, "Call me." I did, I said, "What's up?" And he goes, "Dude, whatever you're doing, it really works." He goes, "I have 14 appointments booked this week."

Scott Aaron: And the cure all to feeling stuck is being in action and for any entrepreneur, any business owner, if there's nothing written down in your appointment book, it's the scariest place that you can be and most people that I was speaking to didn't have enough people talking to.

Scott Aaron: So anyway, I went on a podcast about four years ago, and it was a live dial podcast. So it was a live show where people could call in but it was also recorded. And I was going over the statistics of LinkedIn. I always tell people facts are friendly. It was what my mom says to me until to this day. And I was just reporting the facts.

Christine H.: I'm a huge denial person, so but yeah like [inaudible 00:12:27].

Scott Aaron: That's okay. I hopped off this call. I hopped onto Facebook, and I had nine inboxes from people wanting to hire me. For what I didn't know, I didn't have anything that they could pay for. But they wanted to learn how to use LinkedIn, so I got into action. I created some videos, created a website and I started my coaching practice on what worked for me now teaching others.

Scott Aaron: So at the same time, I was sitting in my attorney's office and I was going over what I needed to do at this gym because I was losing about $3,000 a month. I had now a coaching practice that was on the rise. I had the successful network marketing business. I was just at my wit's end and I had this monkey sitting on my back and it was this gym. It was my father's dream, not mine.

Scott Aaron: So I was sitting with him and he said, "Listen, you got two choices. You can continue to have your two businesses, fund your business that is failing or you can file for personal bankruptcy." And I was like, "Okay." And I remember sitting there and I remember thinking to myself, I wasn't feeling and thinking my life is over. I was thinking, "Holy shit, my life is about to begin. This is my opportunity to wipe the slate clean and really start doing what I wanted to do."

Scott Aaron: So he said, "On a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being slam dunk, you got to do this. 0 being do not do this, keep going." He goes, "You're a 9.5." So on July 1st of 2016 just about three and a half years ago, I filed for personal bankruptcy. On July 31st, I closed my gym. I wrote a handwritten letter to my members, stuck it on the door, turned off the lights, locked the door and I never came back."

Scott Aaron: So on August 1st of 2016, I shared with people that that is when I was truly reborn and I'm living life on my own terms now and my life has never been the same. And it's because I never thought that it was going to be easy because those that take the easy road live a hard life but those that take the hard road will live an easy life.

Scott Aaron: And I remember someone asking me, they said, "What is your super power?" And I said, "It's resiliency." No matter what shit has been thrown my way, I have always figured out a way, not around it, through it so I can learn from that and become even better on the other side. And what I realized with LinkedIn, it was the perfect place for me because I'm all about human connection. I'm all about connecting with other people because I don't care what opt-ins you have. I don't care what lead magnets or funnels that you have or email sequence. Here's the deal.

Scott Aaron: There's one aspect of life and business that you can't automate and that's human connection, and that's what I'm best at. So if you're looking to connect with people and sell them, you have to build that know, like and trust factor first before you even get the right to try to offer someone a product or a service that you have for them. And that's what I'm best at and that's what I teach now building that network, building that relationship and that trust and the connection between two people where you can solve a problem or a need that they are in need or wanting.

Scott Aaron: And it's a very simple system. It's the best platform honestly. If people are still blind to it, if you are still trying to convince yourself that Facebook and Instagram are going to turn back the hands of time and work like the way that they did in 2013 to 2015, you're taking crazy pills. It's time to get with the times, not reinvent yourself but add something to your arsenal of information and tools.

Scott Aaron: You have to be a general contractor of social media. You have to have multiple tools in your tool belt and if LinkedIn is not one of them, you are leaving hundreds of thousands of dollars on the table that you could be collecting.

Kendra Perry: Oh, my good. I love this so much, because you're like preaching to the choir. I mean I talked about this all the time. I think like it's this connection. People are like, "Well, I need to run ads to my course." And I'm like, "Well, that's not going to sell. People need to get to know you first." I mean, I talked about this so much and I love that this conversation is going here because I didn't expect it.

Kendra Perry: I mean, it's true. Facebook is barely a platform you can connect with people on unless you're doing groups. Instagram, you can still do it on it, but you need to be doing stories. You need to be doing lives. You need to be connecting that way, but I haven't really thought about LinkedIn as a connection platform although I actually do use it to connect. So can you tell us a little bit more about like why, like convince health coaches because our audience, they're solopreneurs, they're health coaches, why should they get on LinkedIn?

Christine H.: Especially I think because it's so intimidating, I guess.

Kendra Perry: It is intimidating.

Christine H.: Because I think a lot of people ... It's not actually once you're there. But I think a lot of people perceived it as a corporate platform, and it's the way it markets itself.

Scott Aaron: Let me say this. It's only intimidating because you don't know how to use it.

Kendra Perry: I agree. I totally agree.

Scott Aaron: So, Christine, you can ask anyone, Facebook was intimidating to all of us when we first started using it. Instagram was intimidating to all of us when we first started using it but I tell people all the time what was once uncomfortable becomes comfortable when you start utilizing it.

Scott Aaron: So it's only an unknown and it's only uncomfortable for people that just aren't taking the time to get to know it. Now, Kendra, back to your original question, I don't try to convince anyone. So I don't convince anyone they should use LinkedIn. I know they should be using LinkedIn. So this is the know, it's not the convince and here's why.

Scott Aaron: There's three things that every single coach, I don't care if you're a health coach, a business coach, whatever it is. There are three things that you need to look at. Number one, demographics. You need to know where your people are hanging out, the age of the people that you're looking to connect with. Number two, the size of the networking that you can grow. Gary Vaynerchuk says it best. He says, "Your network is a direct correlation to your net worth."

Kendra Perry: I love it.

Scott Aaron: So if you have a small network, you have small net worth. If you have a large network, you have a large net worth. And number three is the money mindset of the people that are hanging on that platform. People with broke thoughts will not invest in something that you offer.

Scott Aaron: So when you combine those three aspects and you look at the demographics of Instagram and Facebook which are the same because Zuckerberg owns them both and you look at the demographics of LinkedIn which is owned by Microsoft, which is a technology and cybersecurity company, it's clear as day.

Scott Aaron: So the most recent statistics have showed that the average age combined with Facebook and Instagram is 18 to 29 years old. So it's more of the millennials. LinkedIn is 30 to 55 years old. So depending upon where your target market is, if it's busy moms, corporate people, wherever it is, you're going to know where they're hanging out now.

Scott Aaron: Now the size of the network is really key. Facebook you're only allowed 5,000 "friends" and basically the follow feature kicks in or you start a business page and basically you're paying for people I don't believe paying for friends or paying for anything. I don't pay for connection. People are out there. You should connect with them on an organic basis.

Scott Aaron: Instagram, even though you can grow a ridiculous network has the highest rate of fake accounts to real accounts across social media. Actually, there was a recent study that was done that Instagram is closing close to 2 million accounts every 30 days that are fake accounts. So that's also something that people need to know. On LinkedIn, you're allowed 30,000 organic, unpaid, free connections.

Scott Aaron: In three and a half years, I grew my network from 500 to nearly 27,000 in three and a half years organically. So when you have the ability to curate and create a network that is the mirror image of you, the ideal customer, the ideal client, the ideal avatar, you don't have to sell to them because now you're building relationship and rapport with people that you have commonalities with, so natural progression is the know, like and trust factor takes place. You'll be closing more sales.

Scott Aaron: But also, it's money mindset. The average income of those that spend time on Facebook and Instagram is $30,000 a year or less, which means they're just getting by. The average income of someone on LinkedIn is $100,000 a year or more. So that's also something very, very important to take into consideration, three and a half times more. But here's the other thing, I have a global coaching practice. I have clients in over 12 countries, but I wasn't able to grow my coaching practice to where it is now if it wasn't for LinkedIn because it's the only social media platform that you can search and connect for your ideal customer or client by city, by state, by country, by province.

Scott Aaron: Anywhere in the world, if there's something that's ideal for you. You go into the search bar and you can search and connect with those individuals. So when I talk about a game-changing platform that you don't have to spend any dollar off, I don't pay for premium. I don't pay for sales navigator. I don't pay for recruiter. I don't pay for human connection. I create human connection and that's what everyone can be doing on LinkedIn.

Kendra Perry: Very cool. And so I love that. You've definitely given me a few things to think about. And I'm just wondering if we can go back to kind of the basics here's for those of our listeners who are totally unfamiliar with LinkedIn or what that actually looks like, what types of content are people posting there, is there a fee, like is there direct messaging, can you go live. Can you tell us a little bit more about that?

Scott Aaron: I'll handle those one at a time because I have an answer for all of those. And I-

Kendra Perry: I expected that.

Scott Aaron: And I like questions because questions lead to answers and that's something big on LinkedIn. You always, no matter what you're doing on there. So to work backwards as far as your content question, LinkedIn Live is in the beta test phase right now. You can apply to be on it. I filled out an application already, so I'm on the wait list. And basically, they're allowing certain people to beta test it, so it hasn't gone global yet.

Scott Aaron: Now, there is LinkedIn video. You can record yourself on a Zoom, upload a video to the platform up to 10 minutes long. Or you can just use the mobile device. I always do. The great thing about LinkedIn is that there is a repurposing factor. So basically, I use my phone to record my LinkedIn videos, which automatically saves to my camera roll, which I then have that video message, which I can upload onto my IGTV or I can also upload onto my regular Instagram feed as a video, which is great because now I'm working smarter, not harder.

Scott Aaron: The idea with LinkedIn is to produce one piece of content a day. There is no story feature. You don't have to post 18,000 times a day like Facebook. It's one piece of content a day and it comes in three forms, either a post, a video or an article. And all can be done from the PC. Posts and videos are also accessible from the mobile device. You cannot do articles from the mobile device but the content that people are looking for on LinkedIn right now are how-to's, tips, motivation and inspiration. No selling, no offering, no product pictures or before and after's or whatever shit you're selling. You have to sell less and you have to connect more.

Scott Aaron: Now, the magic formula for a good piece of content on LinkedIn, three things. Number one, four to six lines of your own content that relate to what you're either speaking on in a video or posting about in a quote title. Number two is hashtags. Much like Instagram, LinkedIn now has a hashtag feature that people can follow hashtags and you are actually notified if you get enough engagement, you will have a trending hashtag on LinkedIn. I have a trending post at least once a week at this point and that allows people to find you easier much like you would use on Instagram.

Scott Aaron: And the third part is a call to action. So you want to hear from your audience. You don't just want to just put some shit out there and say, "I hope they engage." Ask them to engage. What are your thoughts on this video? What are your thoughts on this content? What are your thoughts on how fear paralyzes you? Leave your comment below. So, engage with them. You want to hear from them. You want to provide information, get feedback. Use that feedback for more content to come later. So, one piece of content, that's the basic thing.

Scott Aaron: Now, as far as LinkedIn goes, there's four key aspects to it. Number one is your profile. So, Microsoft embedded search engine optimization on your profile. If you want to become more visible, you have to have your profile filled out from top to bottom. If someone wants to go to my website, this is not a plug,, I had a free infographic tab that you can click on and basically, it shows you the layout of how to optimize your profile so you are more seen and I've had clients actually change their profile and people now use this search engine on LinkedIn like they would Google or like they would Yahoo. They're searching for business coaches.

Scott Aaron: So if you don't have business coach listed on your profile, how the hell were people supposed to find you? So number one is making sure that your profile is filled out from top to bottom.

Scott Aaron: Number two is actually searching and connecting for your avatar. So you need to define who that person is. What industry are they a part of? What is their job title? How much money do they make? What is their profession? So searching and connecting for those individuals.

Scott Aaron: Now, to go a little bit deeper with that when you send connections to LinkedIn, LinkedIn will ask you, "Do you want to send a note? People are more likely to accept if you add a note to this connection." It's bullshit. There was a third party that did a study and they sent a hundred connections with a message and without. The connection rate was exactly the same. Work smarter, not harder to send the connections.

Scott Aaron: Now, the third piece is messaging. And this is where people get really lost. I mean, Christine, you said you spent some time on there. Kendra, I don't know if you have yet but if you start, people send you these shitty, wonkolog messages-

Kendra Perry: Oh, I've got them.

Scott Aaron: Literally, I showed my fiancé the other day. I said, "Nancy, you got to look at this message." And I was scrolling and it literally took me three minutes to scroll through the whole message. This guy sent me 17 paragraphs of verbal vomit that I was not going to read.

Kendra Perry: I've got very interesting marriage proposals. I could be a princess in Saudi Arabia by now.

Scott Aaron: Listen, everything is possible. You never know. I break it down like this. There's three key formulas to a very, very good messaging. It's all about genuine authenticity and not selling. So number one, state the person's name. "Hey, Kendra, great to connect with you." That's it, that's number one.

Scott Aaron: Number two, in the body of the message, state why you're connecting with them without asking for shit, without trying to sell them anything. "I saw that we have a shared background in health and wellness, would love to hear more about it and share a little bit about what I do." There's your body.

Scott Aaron: Then you finish with a CTA, a call to action. So I'm all about call to actions because questions lead to answers. You have to A-S-K to G-E-T. You have to ask to get. So, I would then say, "Do you have any time this week or next week to hop on a call to learn how we can best support each other here on LinkedIn?" State their name, reason for reaching out and then a call to action.

Scott Aaron: And then fourth aspect is just what I went over, content. When you curate the right network, so if you know who your target market is, you start connecting with those individuals and then you start posting on a consistent basis once a day the three ways that I already mentioned, now, you're speaking directly to that network. It is waiting for your content and they are just gobbling it up.

Scott Aaron: So everything that I put out on LinkedIn is speaking to the end user in mind. The mistake that a lot of people make is they post shit that they want to post. But when you start thinking about what does my end user want to know. If I was my end user, what would I respond to most? What would I engage with? What would I would want to give feedback on?

Scott Aaron: So if you post with the end user in mind, you will have the greatest amount of organic engagement you could ever imagine and right now, as you guys are listening to this podcast or watching this podcast, LinkedIn is going through a Facebook 2012 moment. Right now, engagement has never been higher and organic reach is the highest on any social media platform that is out there today. And if you follow those four core principles without doing anything with me, you will start to see results.

Kendra Perry: All right, we need to get the podcast on LinkedIn, Christine.

Christine H.: Yeah. I also want to say it's all true but don't underestimate the work though because I find just posting is not enough and that's something where I lost track at some point. You have to engage with people too, like it's really ... I find people are very open to help. It's very easy to ask for help and I had super success in speaking and getting speaking gigs and all kinds of connection really quick. People don't bullshit around. They don't have time, it's like [inaudible 00:31:50].

Christine H.: But I also find that you can easily get lost because there's also lot of "you need to connect with these people", "you have to show that you engage" and all that types. So calculate that in because it's really ... Yes, you can take but it's really also that giving thing. And that's where I go a little bit, not pissed off, but it's just like a lost attention because I found at the time and I think it has changed again. That was a year ago. You had all these pods going nuts.

Christine H.: And I think LinkedIn has cracked down on them when they realized it but you have basically people in a group conversation and they weren't giving the links and you have to go to their links and share and like and comment so that engagement would go up even if a lot of it was crap. I didn't even want to engage with it. So that was something that just I didn't want to do.

Christine H.: And then the other thing is that I really found that it's a little bit like high school after all. You have a couple of really huge badass influences, maybe the one kind of wants to be their friend in a way. So for me, it was really unsexy at some point where I was like, I know that it works and I know that if I have the goal, I know how to get there, not like just too directly.

Christine H.: But at the same time, it was exhausting to me at some point and so I just like, "I'm still on there. I'm posting regular content, videos with caps. You should always add caps because people don't watch it with sound because they are not supposed to when they are in the office or wherever, so always add caps.

Christine H.: But that was going on like a year ago. So honestly, I just dropped the ball. I know I just like I still post on there and I'm still on there, have a couple of really good connections there. But I'm wondering on what your thought of them is, because I know for a long time it was like, okay, per day you post content. You have to comment on, five. You have to like on four, blah-blah-blah-blah-blah. And I was just like, "I don't have time for this," but at the same time, it's well spent. It's definitely better spent than on other platforms. But give me a little bit of your intake on how things have evolved maybe since then.

Scott Aaron: I mean the pods are on every single social media platform. I think that's bullshit. I think that's forced engagement. I don't believe in forced engagement. I believe in organic engagement. And I will like and comment on someone else's stuff if I like it. I'm not going to do things because I have to. I'm going to engage with someone's content because I'm like, "Shit, that's a really good post." And I'll write great posts.

Scott Aaron: So, everything I do is organic. There's two things that I want to say. Number one, and Christine, are you in the UK?

Christine H.: No, I'm in Luxembourg, Europe.

Scott Aaron: Okay. So, Kendra may understand this but I'll explain it again. You have to treat LinkedIn like a 401(k). So, here in the States, a 401(k) is a retirement fund or an IRA. So, it's a retirement vehicle. What most people get lost in is having LinkedIn like a lottery ticket. I tell people if you want to do something easy, go down to the local gas station or minimart and get a lottery scratch-off ticket because you have a better shot that way.

Scott Aaron: LinkedIn is a retirement vehicle. It's compounded interest over time. You have to make daily deposits to create a compounded interest of income that eventually after enough time goes on that you create the wealth that you truly deserve. It's about doing things without expecting anything in return, leaving people better but being uber-consistent because consistency creates the compounded effect that creates everything that you want in your life. That's number one.

Scott Aaron: Number two, if there's two books that I can recommend every single human being on this planet to read, number one is a book called Go for No. it's a book by Andrea Waltz and Richard Fenton. Andrea has become a friend of mine. I read this book four years ago and it blew my mind. And the basic principle of the book is yes is the destination but no is how you get there and that's all I'm going to say about it. I can do a whole podcast just on that book. It's 70 pages. It will change your life.

Scott Aaron: Number two is the foundational money mindset book, the first money mindset book ever written in 1910 and it's called The Science of Getting Rich. This book was written in 1910 by Wallace D. Wattles. And this book spurred all the other books that you guys are reading: You're a Badass at Making Money, Rich Dad, Poor Dad, The Secret, The Strangest Secret, Think and Grow Rich.

Scott Aaron: Every single one of those money mindset books is off of the teachings of The Science of Getting Rich and it teaches you this: When you live in a world of collaboration and creation and instead of a world of competition and comparison, you can create anything you want in life.

Scott Aaron: And if you harness those two principles and you harness the fact that this is a retirement vehicle, this is compounded interest, it's making those daily, weekly, monthly, yearly deposits and not getting attached to the outcome, doing things without an expectation or results, you will create and live the best life possible.

Christine H.: Okay. Kendra and I were just like, "Sure."

Kendra Perry: Like, "Oh, yes."

Christine H.: Very, very true. All right, so I think this has been really good in terms of we know why LinkedIn has to be on your list no matter what kind of business you have. We talked about the content. We talked about how to approach people. We talked about engagement. So, as I saw it in your bio, you are actually teaching this in more detail to your clients. So walk us quickly through how people can get in touch with you, why they should get in touch with you so that when they are like, "Okay, I really need to get my shit together and this needs to be in my arsenal," how do they do that?

Scott Aaron: Great question and thank you for the opportunity to share this. There's no have-to's but if people are unhappy with the amount of conversations they're not having, and if you don't have enough ... I don't care what kind of coaching practice you have whether it's wellness or business, leads are your lifeline. People are your lifeline. So if you're going to depend on the market that you have now and you're going to depend on your friends and family to grow your business, you're just wrong.

Scott Aaron: And the fact is, is that if you're not consistently growing your network organically, you're not going to have a business in two to three years and I said this on one of my podcast episode. It's called network marketing made simple. If people go all in on Facebook and Instagram and you don't utilize other resources not just an email list or LinkedIn. Instagram and Facebook will eventually bankrupt your business because it's not going to produce the amount of connections required and conversations required to succeed.

Scott Aaron: So people can go to my website, That's where you can order my bestselling book, the LinkedIn book for network marketing. You can also listen to my podcast, Network Marketing Made Simple. Or you can connect with me on LinkedIn, it's scottaaron. Instagram, it's @scottaaronlinkedin. And on Facebook, it's also Scott Aaron. I do Facebook Lives two to three times a week. I do three trainings on all social media because I believe you have to give before you can get. It's just the law of reciprocation.

Scott Aaron: I try to give as much as I can for free before even people walk through the door to want to do more with me. So I have a ton of free resources, the infographic, everything else, my podcast. Just digest it all. You're going to resonate with something.

Christine H.: Perfect.

Kendra Perry: I love that. It's such a powerful message that goes beyond just LinkedIn. And I feel like I'm like beating a dead horse with this message because I've talked to a lot of health coaches the past couple of weeks because we're launching a year-long business coaching program. And it's just crazy like what these people have been told to do. They've spent like six months building out a course and their strategy is to run Facebook ads to it but they don't have a social media following.

Scott Aaron: [crosstalk 00:44:42] Who are you selling?

Kendra Perry: Like it hurts me.

Scott Aaron: People pay all this shit and then they have no one to sell it to. I had friends of mine that were building ... They were doing a launch for a big online mastermind and I'm like, "How did things go?" And they're like, "No one bought." You have to have-

Christine H.: We've all been there but it's painful because these are people who've been in business for a couple of years and it's exactly the scenario that you said before. People are unhappy about the nonexistent amount of leads that you're having because they've been working their asses off. They've been reinvesting. They are believing. They are doing gratitude work, whatever, polishing their crystals which I do too. I love this. But at the same time, it's like why is it not working and it's because there's essence that's just missing. It's just like-

Kendra Perry: It's inauthentic or people, they're not connecting. They're knocking themselves.

Christine H.: It's outdated. It's not working.

Kendra Perry: It's crazy.

Scott Aaron: They're selling too much and they're connecting too little. And when you change nothing, nothing changes. It's plain and simple. You guys know what the definition of insanity is, which is doing the same thing each and every day expecting something different to happen. If you're not going to change something, you can't expect anything to change in your life.

Kendra Perry: Yeah. I mean I've built my whole business on connection and like I don't have a big following but it doesn't matter because the people who invest in you, they actually align with your message. They align with your mission and they will buy everything that you put out there. I've had people moved who were in my health coaching membership when I was doing health coaching. Now they did my course. They're in my membership and they wanted to do business coaching with me and now they're in our mastermind. They're just like, "What are you selling? I want it," like they don't even care.

Christine H.: Yeah, it's very true.

Scott Aaron: It's the know, like and trust. When people know you, they like you and they trust you and they will buy anything that you put out there because they've already seen the result from something before. You have to take the time to really nurture those relationships. Make them very meaningful because here's the other thing, people don't realize this why connection is so important because those raving fans, those raving customers, those raving clients, do you know whose name is going to come first out of that person's mouth? Your words.

Scott Aaron: You have these people organically telling other people about you. I can't tell you how many people reached out to me because of the lives that I have impacted with my coaching. So now, I have people coming to me saying, "I want to work with you. A friend of so and so told me to reach out to you. I want the results that they had." So now, you've built that trust and rapport with those people, they're going to start doing the work for you because they want to, because you've changed their life.

Kendra Perry: Yes, love it, so, so good. Well, thank you so much, Scott. That was a very cool conversation and I actually feel a bit more inspired about LinkedIn. I've been on LinkedIn for a little while. I have a strategy. I tried to reach out via direct message and like have ... I literally just tried to start a conversation.

Kendra Perry: But it's funny, you can sniff out people's intentions from a mile away and when I started conversation with someone, I can instantly tell, "Oh, they're about to try to sell me something," and I fucking hate it. And because I'm on there, I just want to get to know them. I just want to have a conversation, get to know them and see where it goes. But it's like people come on too fast. They come on too strong and there's a lot of spammy people on LinkedIn so it's too bad but don't be a spammer, be a human connection builder.

Scott Aaron: Yes, 100%. Two things that I can leave you with is that your failures always open the doors to your successes. The more often you fail, the more often you're going to learn how to succeed, so you have to have that very high failure rate to get the high success rate. And the last thing is that there's millions of ways of how to succeed and there's only one way to fail and that's to quit.

Scott Aaron: So for anyone that's listening to this and you're thinking of quitting, basically, that's the only way you're going to fail. So no matter how hard it gets, no matter how many ups and downs, bumps in the roads, potholes, speed bumps that you have to go over, as long as you grow through it and learn from it, you will eventually succeed. It's just when the time is right for you.

Kendra Perry: Love it. It touches my soul.

Christine H.: All right, party people. Well, we're always so happy that you tuned in. and if you learned something from this and I'm pretty sure you did, then please go over to iTunes and leave us a five-star review, showing us lots of love, we would adore it. And Scott would adore it. He would be really happy too.

Christine H.: And don't forget to check out whatever is happening in our news, so we're launching our mastermind at this time when you're listening to this live. But even if it's later, to keep in touch with us, we always have goodness coming your way. And I think that's it for this week, so we'll talk to you next week with a Biz Bomb episode. Bye.

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