Even when we are on vacation we want to make sure that we drop a big juicy biz tip! Coming at you all the way from Port de Pollenca in Majorca, Spain, Christine shares with you why Voxer Pro is the way to go.
Voxer is a free “walkie talkie” app where you can send a quick voice message to anyone on your contacts list. It’s great for when you’re on the go and just need to ramble out an idea or task that needs to be done. You can listen to the message in real time as the person is talking or you can listen to it later. Unlike the tradition walkie talkie from your youth, you can also send text messages, videos and pictures through Voxer.
The downside to the free version is that messages don’t stay in your inbox forever. At any given time the just disappear! With the Pro version, you have unlimited access to all messages ever sent or received. But the BIGGEST reason why we like Voxer Pro is that it has Voice to Text transcription! So if you're in a meeting or if you are somewhere where you can't just listen to a message, you can hit the transcription button and it's basically going to transcribe the message that your assistant left you or your client left you. Rather than having to wait and listen to the message, you're able to then just take care of it and determine what is urgent or not that urgent.
And the best part is that it’s CHEAP! It’s regular $5.49/month but it looks like they have a promotion right now for $3.33/month if you bill annually.
If you like what you hear, be sure to subscribe to the 360 Health Biz Podcast so you keep up to date with all our episodes. And if you’re a Instragam stalker like we are, be sure to take a screenshot of the episode, post it to Instagram & tag us and we will share out your praise!
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Hey and welcome from Port de Pollenca in Majorca, Spain. Today's business tip is a very quick one. So as you can see, I'm on holiday and I left most of my business to take care of by my assistants. What we use is my business tip for today and it's an app that's called Voxer, V-O-X-E-R. I use the pro version.
Here's why you want to splash out on the pro and it's really, really cheap. It's not expensive, but what it does have, it has a transcription button because as much as I like voice memos, it can be super inconvenient, especially if you're in a meeting or if you are somewhere where you can't just take your phone and listen. It's really nice to press that ... That's my daughter. To press that transcribe button. Hello mompreneur. You press that transcribe button and it's basically going to transcribe the message that your assistant left you or your client left you and you're able to then just take care of it that way and you can see whether it's urgent or not that urgent.
I really recommend it. It's going to make your life and communication so much easier and in this case, the pro version is definitely worth it. So this is just a very quick tip. I hope you like it and I'll talk to you soon.
You may have already noticed that we LOVE Instagram and we love nerding out about it. If you are new to Instagram or haven’t quite figured it out yet, you are really going to learn a lot from today’s episode and hopefully you get a little nerdy too.
We are have Kelly Doody with us today, the Founder & CEO of Social School to talk all about Instagram marketing for business.
Here’s what you’ll find in today’s episode:
- the 4 A’s of Marketing (the 4 P’s are so 90’s)
- what the heck are content pillars and how you MUST use them to continuously produce new content
- keep things spicy with new content (nobody likes seeing the same thing over and over again)
- aesthetic to your Instagram feed
- the difference between IGTV and Instagram stories (and why you should be using both)
- nerd out with analytics to determine which content works and which doesn’t
- as we always saying, why niching your target audience is SO important
- why social media advertising is still something you should do (and why you shouldn’t just blindly boost a post for $20)
There's no PhD in marketing (or social media for that matter). To figure out what works for you and your business in order to market yourself as the kickass health coach you are, you just have to get in there and get dirty. Marketing is all trial and error but at least with this episode, we have plenty of tips to get your started (and reduce the amount of errors).
When it comes to Instagram, we like to think of it as frontend art and backend science. The number one question you need to ask yourself when you are posting anything is: how does your post convert. And which conversion is most important to you. Do you want the vanity conversions like likes or do you want tangible conversions like clicks to your website and follows, which eventually lead to sales? This means you might have to put some money towards boosting your posts but you should take it a step further and be strategic about WHO you are boosting that post to. You may have a ton of great memes or click-bait posts but at the end of the day, does that convert to what you want to achieve? This is where the frontend art comes into play and you need to consider the aesthetic of your feed.
Tune into today’s episode and get nerdy with us!
Kelly Doody - Founder & CEO, Social School Kelly is a journalist turned digital marketing junkie. In addition to founding Social School, a top digital marketing academy offering live and online courses and certification programs, as well as Canada's largest marketing conference series, she is the co-founder of Press + Post – an award-winning modern marketing agency with clients across North America. Nothing makes Kelly happier than training organizations big and small to master their online domain, while connecting the top digital tools and trends with the entrepreneurs and innovators who need them most. Her runner up bio is just as great… “buy me dinner and I’ll teach you the secrets to the internet”.
Get the Social School FREEBIE of social media planning tools & tip sheets: https://socialschool.io/subscribe
Planoly - www.planoly.com/
Say hi on social:
Kendra Perry Instagram: www.instagram.com/kperrynutrition
Christine Hansen Instagram: www.instagram.com/sleeplikeaboss_
Kendra: Hello everyone. Kendra here, welcome to an amazing, awesome, super exciting and super nerdy episode of the 360 Health Biz Podcast. I am so excited for today's topic. We're talking about something that's kind of sexy. We're talking about Instagram, and we love Instagram and I'm super stoked because I am hanging out with my beautiful, sexy and very well dressed, I might add, co-host, Christine Hansen. I love your dress. I think you look super good. Guys you should watch our video on YouTube to see how good Christine looks today. That old thing is like...-
Kendra: We have a super awesome guest today, we have Kelly Doody, and she is going to be talking to us about how to use Instagram for business. Instagram is definitely a hot topic, we've been posting a little bit on our Podcast about Instagram and you guys are really loving it. So we want to go a little bit deeper today and show you how you can actually utilize this platform to grow your business. And just to give you a little bit more background about Kelly, Kelly is a journalist turned digital marketer with an unrelenting passion for the knowledge share community that is marketing today. I love that. In addition to leading social school, she is the co-founder of the renowned Canadian, fellow Canadian, very excited, Digital Agency Press and Post. So nothing makes Kelly happier than moving individuals and organizations toward becoming the masters of their online domain and connecting the top digital trends and tools with the entrepreneurs and innovators who need them the most. I love that bio.
Christine H.: What a bio, I'm-
Kendra: Welcome Kelly.
Christine H.: I need to open that Google doc and use it as a model for my IMT because I'm like, jeez, relentless-
Kelly Doody: You're so sweet. My other one is one line. It says, "Buy me dinner and I'll teach you the secrets to the internet."
Christine H.: Totally fine. Dinner and dessert with my [inaudible 00:01:56]. That's like sexy talk for me. I'm like, "Ooh, let's talk marketing. Let's talk Instagram turn on.
Kelly Doody: It's foreplay absolutely. A Martini and that and I'm yours. It's like, yeah, got it. Okay.
Kendra: So Kelly I'd love to know a little bit more about you, because you said you were a journalist turned marketer, so how did you sort of transition from that space to the space that you are currently in now?
Kelly Doody: Yeah. Well, I mean the short version is that I was a columnist for the Calgary Sun and then I was doing some freelance writing for a few other publications. And I suppose I saw the writing on the wall with media and I don't do well when things are going in a very flat line. And, and or that there is no evolution and kind of promise to it. So in about 2010 after being a full time journalist for several years. I switched to the dark side and I started doing PR. I had the benefit I suppose, of really being in touch with in Calgary, the small business community and who was doing what in media relations and outreach and basically story telling. And that right was at the time where Social media was becoming a thing. And I knew I could help people with both.
Kelly Doody: So I started my own PR firm, which eventually grew into an agency with a friend of mine. And then one of those glorious days, that's the life changing moment and you can point to in your life or one of a few, it was my sister-in-law at the West Edmonton Mall water slides [crosstalk 00:03:20]. And she said to me... she said, "take your business online." And I'm sure a lot of your listeners and perhaps yourselves can relate that when you're a service practitioner and you're only making money by the hour or with whatever, however many hours you have in a day. I didn't love it. I felt like I was really constrained by, just sort of this ceiling on my head that had to do with, yes, earnings, but more so just the ability to scale and not being in that position.
Kelly Doody: So I started packaging up some of my so called expertise in content and media relations and I built my first course is called PR Pioneers and that was about eight years ago. And then just got really more into the education space to sort of build one, sell often one to many versus one-to-one. And then fast forward to 2019 and it's now a social school. And we run events, conferences and classes all across the country.
Christine H.: Very cool.
Kendra: Very, very cool.
Kelly Doody: Thank you. Yeah, it's pretty fun. And it just so happens that something in me said, "get the heck out of the PR game and stop talking about media relations." Love traditional media more than ever, particularly in this political climate we're living in where truth matters and journalism is so important. But I really also had much more of an interest in the digital marketing sphere. So I nerded hard. And I had to too, when I was building these online classes, like the curriculum was 4% of the work. It was 96% learning the platforms and owning them because I didn't have the funds to be able to pay someone to build a website, launched these courses, host them, pay walls, gateways, nurture campaigns, the whole thing. And as we know marketing is very much trial and error DIY, like just get down and, and get going on it. And that's when I say, the knowledge share community that is marketing. There's no PhD in this, there's not even a degree in the digital and the content sphere we're playing in. It's just get in and start working on it and then converse with your peers and find out what's working and what's not so [crosstalk 00:05:21].
Kendra: I agree especially because it changes so quickly, like something that's working now is not going to be working necessarily in two years or 18 months. It takes such a quick change. We've talked about this a little bit, also going from complicated to simple and so yeah.
Christine H.: And I think that's a little bit where Instagram is still this enigma. Is it really easy? Is there something I'm missing? Like, literally I don't know. Kendra and I, we went to Social Media X Awards in November last year. And we went to that seminar and we literally were like soaking everything up Instagram. But sometimes I find like I'm missing something? Is there something else to it? So this is really exciting for us because I think both of us, we are kind of knowledgeable about it and oh, I wing it Kendra is like a pro much more so, but I would love to know a little bit more. And I think a lot of our... it's actually converting very well for me Instagram, surprisingly. So I only got into it to build my brand and to do brand ambassadorships and things like that. But I think a lot... I think it's a great space for health. So tell us a little bit about your Instagram expertise. First of all, if you are in a health space, how can you use it? What should your goal be with Instagram?
Kelly Doody: Sure, yeah. And I suppose I'll start by answering that with two sort of big theories right now that we're sort of playing in. And one of those being that, and you guys have already said the word authenticity and absolutely we know so much that Social media and Instagram in particular right now, especially with its features like stories and IGTV and just even the communities and the forums that you can be a part of direct messaging aspect to it. We can do so much in exposing our A-words. We like to talk about moving past the four P's of marketing. Welcome to 1992 and going into the ace of authenticity and advocacy, which is the golden egg. Accessibility for your viewers, your listeners, your prospects or existing customers. Authority so that you're actually in a really authentic and humble or whatever your style is way, show that you know what the heck you're talking about. You are a leader in your field, you're an industry expert. People should trust you and want to buy from you, work with you, et cetera.
Christine H.: I'm like ready to storm out with it.
Kelly Doody: There you go. You got your A-words down, your A game is on point. But the other aspect of that is... and I suppose actually within that I will say that one thing we've become fiercely passionate about is not just the front end art but the backend science. And that's where we're seeing the difference. You already used the word Christine, convert. That is so important. So no matter what we talked about today, going forward, how we practice Instagram or Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, we have to be thinking about how this converts because otherwise it gets really bloody disheartening. You're like, "I'm three years, three months into and maybe now I'm promoting my posts, maybe I'm paying a photographer to up my game and I'm using an editorial calendar to plan my content and I'm ticking all those boxes to just raise my Insta game a little more."
Kelly Doody: But so what? Who cares? And we have clients and students who say this to us all the time and that's when we say we have no choice in 2020, 2019, but to be actually putting your money where your mouth is and actually maybe boosting your posts but to strategic audiences, running really complimentary Ad campaigns and sort of understanding that, that's backend technical aspect is where people are winning. And it's not a bunch of nerdy dudes. I hate to generalize. It should be the ones who are sitting there as the Ninjas, ones that are mastering SEO. It's like snake oil to the rest of us, or the paid rich that gets the content seen and acted on. We can all do this. And that's where I get so excited just to say to people like, "you're almost there. You just have to make slightly more targeted audiences or a bit more strategic content for that particular group of people. Or what's your goal? Where are people at in their customer journey with you and how do you reach them in each of those places?" And that was my super long winded way of saying, "Instagram can do all of that and more and it's awesome." I'm on fire.
Kendra: [crosstalk 00:09:28] Instagram because there's so many different ways to share content on it. You can do the short form video, the long form a video, the images. You can go live if you want to. And so I think there's a lot of different ways you can show up. I think where our audience might be confused is maybe the types of content they should be sharing it and like how to share it. Because I check out a lot of health coaches Instagram accounts and what I see is like there's a picture of a flower, there's a picture of a meal, maybe there's a quote and like they have like a hundred followers and they're frustrated because they're not getting anywhere. So I feel like... Can you tell our audience what types of content should they be thinking of sharing? Should it be about themselves? Should it be educational? Should it be behind the scenes? What should people actually be sharing on Instagram?
Kelly Doody: Yeah such a great [inaudible 00:10:11].
Christine H.: Not only use Shutterstock photos. I just went to spy out one of my competent competitors and I'm like, "If you only use shutter stock photos it looks so tacky, it's so old " And the other question I have is hashtags. Do they matter? Is it still a thing?
Kelly Doody: Yeah, okay. So, and I love it. Kendra what you're talking about is like basically where we start with everybody in strategy. And it's where whether or not you're working with an agency or you're totally solo. This is the piece that people most often miss and they just mediocre their into social, and Instagram in particular post, post, posts. And then the inevitable question is, "what the heck do I do next? I've run out of things to say." So the very like absolute must do starting point, whether it's today or 10 years from now, are content pillars. And what that is essentially is, what kind of themes can you break your content into? And you can do it in a really basic stance. And we do this all the time, like educate, entertain, inspire. So great if that's where you want to land, perfect.
Kelly Doody: But maybe for you it's more community culture promotional content. Maybe it's more product based. It's... We're working with the flooring company right now that says, that's way too, [woowoo 00:11:22] from me. I just need to straight up have pillars that include commercial, residential, renovation, awesome. Once we have our pillars set and we know how to essentially divide our content up into these buckets that allows for variety and interest and again that expertise to shine through that deeper more meaningful content because otherwise we just promote, promote, promote crap. I have an event this week, I haven't sold any tickets post, post, post and it just becomes numbing and sorry, unfollow. And then once we have those pillars in place we can come up with a really beautiful variety of content categories and that's where these can be universal.
Kelly Doody: How to unbox things, did you knows, behind the scenes, interviews, testimonials. And then really beautiful content types too, Still imagery, video, Carousels and then hopefully you can find a way to also start to insert graphics, animations, shifts. One of my favorite accounts is Plantarly. They're an Instagram planning tool plan O L Y and you look at their feed and I use it in classes all the time to show people like, "check this out." Not only are they like cycling through their nine grid on Instagram posts of color. So you'd go kind of purple in it ambers into yellow, into red, like beauty. This is like a 10 out of 10 A-game. But if we can even be a four out of 10, we're laughing. And then you can also start to see the pillars shine through. And they aren't technology company, they're pretty lame.
Kelly Doody: If you look on the surface and this is where we get into trouble. Where the realtor who's just posting, "Oh I don't know the latest house listing." or where a Physio therapist who's just posting the products that we work with as opposed to the faces and the transformation of those people. You're like... and we're not alone. Some of your, especially your service based health coaches, practitioners that are going, "God, it all feels the same." You've got to think deeper. My editor at the newspaper used to always say to me, "tell me more, tell me... who cares. I don't care Kelly. Someone's opening a restaurant or 50 other people. Tell me more." Well, "there is really neat family recipe from Italy of this pizza dough." Yeah, still don't care. Tell me more."
Kelly Doody: "Okay, well there's 42 members of this family in the kitchen and that's, they only hire their aunties. Like, "Oh, okay, interesting. Now I want to know the face and the person behind that story." But don't show me your latest like just same old, same old, the ribbon cutting, the zoomed out photo, the Shutterstock as you mentioned Christine. And that's what the humans connect with the faces in the context of humanity in those photos and in those stories.
Christine H.: I loved that. I think that's so important. Because a lot of these health coaches that I work with, or I'm checking out their Instagram accounts, I don't see them on their posts and their name might not even be in their bio. So how can you connect with that? There's no connection. I don't know who that is. They send me a message and it's from like health and wellness 200 with none of their name, none of their face. And you're just like, "uh, I'm not even going to answer this message." Because I don't know who this is." And I feel really bad because I'll have these DMs, but I'm like, "dude, I don't have time for this. I don't even know who you are, what this is about." And I'm like, no, no, no, no. But I agree that Kendra and I were pretty, no Kendra is not extroverted.
Kendra: I have my moments.
Christine H.: You have your moments It's actually difficult to say. We both actually like having photographs taken, right? So I have a Photo shoot wherever I go and then you see us a lot. But when I tell people that I... why is this on your Instagram? Shouldn't you be showing multivitamin? Or carrots or kale and all that kind of stuff, and I'm just... well that’s not what people check out. When they see that in their feed, it doesn't make them curious and I think it's so much... it's not about the photo in the end, it's what draws them in. But then it's about the headline and actually having a headline in an Instagram post is for many people like what do you mean headline? And to me in the meantime, I consider the posts that can teeny teeny weeny blog in a way. So it's fantastic what happens. And it's so true. Do change immediately your photo to you and not your logo or Kale.
Kelly Doody: Yeah that's a good starting point. Absolutely. People connect with a face, not a logo. And as infants I mean that's how we're wired. We look for the faces of our parents, the moment we can. And as adults we're the same. We want to see human faces and interaction. And we all know that trust has never been lower. It's hard to even trust Academia anymore let alone politicians and big business and banks. And it's just that this is the time we're in. We trust our friends, we trust referrals, the advocacy that comes from someone telling you, "hey, check out this restaurant, it's awesome." You're going to go there. So the more you can be that about authoritative, trusted face and person. But of course, if it's done in an artistic way and that's what's so beautiful about Instagram and when those varieties and content categories and pillars kind of get worked in and you just... all it takes is a bit of planning. Before we can get creative, we've got to get nerdy and we backed it up to an editorial calendar that says, "okay, I'm going to cycle through my entertain, inspire, educate, entertain, inspire, educate." Something like that, posts.
Kelly Doody: But I'm also going to cycle through a Still image that I took then a video, then a graphic, then some kind of, I don't know animation or... But again, the spice of life. If you pick up your favorite magazine, study Vogue, study Entrepreneur, Inc Magazine, and look at the layouts they've got. The reason we're so intrigued by a print Mag and the way that they've done it for decades so well is because the layout and the design and it leaves you wanting more. Emails are the same. I might love someone's email marketing or their messaging, but if it's always the same, there's no kind of surprise and delight. What am I going to see? What's going to make me open that email or make me start scrolling on their feed is going to be something that's different. So we have to also get past okay, "is it just me all the time or is it just my staff all the time?"
Kelly Doody: And that's where I truly believe that if you can showcase the people you're working with, and I know it's not always easy, we have privacy concerns we have kids to worry about. But if you can get 10 people that can be like these like faces of your business over the next 12 months that you can really showcase wonderful, right? But challenging ourselves a little bit, just like be the journalist of your business and dig a little deeper to tell those stories of transformation and end result because that's where you'll shine.
Christine H.: That's so good. It's so juicy. And so I just want to break this down a little bit. So what you're saying is, well first of all, people need to show up on their feed personally. They need to create content that people can actually connect with, which is not just like a bundle of kale or bacon and eggs.
Christine H.: Yap [crosstalk 00:18:09]. You have to show up in your feed and all that. And then you're saying like create these content buckets almost. Or more story like these different categories and like maybe figuring out like, what do you stand for in your business? If you're niching in like say weight loss, then you could have some of the transformations maybe you've created in your business and show those stories and tell those stories and maybe you have like different inspirational tips and then maybe you have recipes or whatever it is. But you're not always sharing the same kind of content, but you're breaking it down into these different categories, okay.
Kelly Doody: Absolutely. Yap[crosstalk 00:18:36] like what, Oh, sorry, go ahead.
Christine H.: Oh that's fine, But I'm not... like the way that I do it is because I don't plan. I'm notoriously bland and it freaks me out if I have to do like a long editorial calendar, like immediately, "I'm tired, I won't do it." And so it's just... But what I do, I do it in kind of this way because Kendra and I have been working with Jamie Jensen, who's also been on the podcast. And she helped us to basically flash out our story and she, through interviewing us separately with [inaudible 00:19:05] VIP days with her. She kind of figured out what our values are through us just talking and telling us her a story. And so whenever I do post, I go back to her framework that she created for me, which actually basically has exactly those pillars.
Christine H.: So some of them are business related and some of them are me related. And considering that the business is me, I usually go there and I look at, "Oh yes, I forgot that this word is something that is super important." And then I just pull something out that belongs to that. So it's not quite an editorial calendar because for me personally, that wouldn't work. It's just... I don't like it. It's just that my personality, I'm very organic. I'm never linear. That's not what I do. But [inaudible 00:19:50] do have that framework. So I think it's a brilliant idea to figure out what are your pillars and just even just write that one word and a post in it. Just put five posts around you that you always know I don't know what to think about, "Oh yes, this is my value or my businesses value." And you always find something to talk about because it's who you are. So I think that's brilliant. I do have a question though, because you said video and I was like, "I really want to do that." But what kind of video content would be Instagram like ish for let's say someone in the health space for example?
Kelly Doody: Well I mean... and a great question. I can't wait to hear more about what Kendra has been doing with her IGTV. Because this is a really beautiful feature that allows us to all be broadcasters of our own channels on our own. It takes stories to a bit of a deeper level, right? Within the platform, we're already a billion people are hanging out, so great. But when it comes to just sort of more high level video strategy. Once again, you have to figure out... I love the line, "Is it sustainable?" Can you actually dive into a video, strategy that is going to be something that's more than a one-off.
Kelly Doody: And I love to think to myself like, "okay, if I blog one time this year or let's say five blogs six times this year, that's six more times than last year." But at the same time I can't fall off the map. So what can you do? And I mean, the fact that we don't have to be as polished and perfect anymore or as maybe we did in the past with video. When we were going to be using it in commercial purposes. Because that's all we had. YouTube might still be a little bit more polished or it's a channel where you can certainly post sort of the more that more documentary like lots of post production and editing within it.
Kelly Doody: But Instagram stories and IGTV can be much more raw. So that's wonderful. All it takes is a little selfie stick or a tripod and a light and good sound. And all of those items you can buy for $30 a piece on Amazon. But at the same time for... back to the idea of what is the content that's best suited to you and what can you do? If you can't do an editorial calendar, no problem, but could you jot down five ideas for posts that week or look through your phone on the weekend, find a few photos and at least get yourself set up for some ideas. And then we get into the place where it's a little bit less, again, knee-jerk. And we're covering our bases, ticking our boxes and remembering as well. I love the idea of this dog trainer we have going through one of our certificate programs right now and she's lovely. And for her, the low hanging fruit on Facebook and Instagram is click baiting, you know the moose on the loose video playing in the paddling pool or the cat memes
Christine H.: Yeah, full techs.
Kelly Doody: But it might get some engagement and it might get some of those vanity metrics. The likes follows, shares. But it's not going to necessarily be the deeper stuff that makes me trust her with my new puppy, my new pet. If she doesn't plan and strategize and push herself to do the deeper, more strategic long form content or even just more, I don't know well thought out a series of posts or where she's showcasing her expertise, then she can sort of stay surface level. And with voice, the last thing I'll say, if you don't feel like you want to have a camera in your face and that's just not your thing, don't do it. Focus on the content that you can do well and maybe that is longer form writing and you should be blogging like crazy.
Kelly Doody: Maybe it's podcast because your voice is the soothing siren song. [inaudible 00:23:16]. But there's a lot of people doing Instagram stories really well that just hold the camera in front of them, but you get to know their voice. You never see their face. My friend, Dinner with Julie, Julie Ben Rosendaal does is brilliantly. And I love, she takes us on a journey every day with tons of stories, rarely see her face, but we so love her voice in the background. So you can do video in a lot of different ways.
Kendra: Yeah, I love that. And very quickly for people who are super new to Instagram, what's the difference between a on Instagram story and a video on IGTV? What is IGTV? And then you also have the live feature on Instagram stories, which I was like, what exactly is the difference? Until I realized that when you don't hold the button anymore on the regular story, it's like gone. So what is the difference between all of that?
Kelly Doody: Yes, great question. The short answer is that IGTV is sort of Instagram slash Facebook, who owns Instagram and Mark Zuckerberg answer to YouTube and YouTube live in particular. So just like they... let's say rinse and repeated photocopied everything that was Snapchat with Instagram stories 24 hours after disappearing mini stories. That were again more candid than what's in your sort of more polished scene. The IGTV was a way for us to go longer than we can go on stories. So you have a ten second video limit on stories. You can fill multiple live video stories in a row and they'll all show up. There are those little circles at the top of the feed, which I would think everybody's seen by now. But I was just with my girlfriends in Palm Springs on a ladies get away and three out of four of us had never heard of stories and that. And then they are like, "oh, what do you do?"
Kelly Doody: But anyway, so IGTV is now another feature where Instagram wants us to go deeper. And there's nothing like taking up a platform of any kind and just hanging out on it for the weekend and getting to know it. Every time someone says to me, "I don't like LinkedIn." I'm like, "have you been on it enough? Have you checked it?" Like really just dive in and you'll get so inspired as well as just have a better idea on, "hey, is this for me or not? Could I actually do this or do I want to just stay a voyeur and learn on it? Or actually do it way?"
Kendra: Yeah. Talking about voyeurism. So here comes my geeky stalky personality out. So if you're on stories, you can actually see everyone who's seen your story stories, which is kind of cool, but which also means that they see when you watch their stories. So I'm going to go and I'm going to share something with your sharing because I'm a huge stalker and I don't always want to people to know especially with some guy where I'm like, "no, I'm very cool, I don't care." So here's how you spy on someone so that they don't see basically when you have these circles, I think it's built that you just go through stories and then [inaudible 00:26:10] and the it continues. So if the circle is big, you go to the one afterwards, their story starts and then you just swipe back a little bit. And you can actually see what it's going to be about. Not the whole thing, but they won't notice. So as long as it doesn't really swipe over, you're good. So it's just enough [crosstalk 00:26:27] and it's like, "Huh-huh now I know and I look really cool because I don't care." But actually I do. So there you go it's [crosstalk 00:26:36]. It's funny if you were helping us be better stalkers I can see.
Kendra: I'm a very sad person, I am.
Christine H.: Very good and [crosstalk 00:26:44].
Kelly Doody: Oh, sorry go ahead. You go ahead.
Christine H.: You go.
Kelly Doody: I was going to say if you don't want to unfollow someone but they're posting too many stories, you can just hold that little circle and mute them and you won't see their stories anymore.
Christine H.: Which is great because if you unfollow someone, sometimes they yell at you though like, "you unfollowed me." And I'm like, why do people do that?"
Kelly Doody: Who cares? Like I can follow who I want to follow. It's not like a diss on you. I just don't want to follow you.
Christine H.: Totally. I know people are sensitive.
Kelly Doody: Okay. So I love this. So there's all different ways you can share the video. Like with IGTV, we can do that longer form video one. I think it's one minute to 10 minutes or something like that. And then IGTV, we are Instagram stories. We can do the shorter form video and then if you just want to talk forever you can do the live. But I think with the live it only lasts for 24 hours as well.
Christine H.: Yeah, right.
Kendra: Yeah, you can save it at the highlight afterwards I think.
Christine H.: It just takes a lot of effort, that's the one Instagram feature I don't really use is a Live. Because I feel like it's a lot of effort for something that disappears yet.
Kelly Doody: Yeah. It's really interesting where Facebook Live and Instagram Live are today and when Facebook Live came out about two years ago now it seems like, I don't know. It's funny Social media is like, it's also... it's really long and it's not that long. And of course we're all using it like a bunch of 19 year olds who want instant gratification as opposed to thinking of like, "how am I going to be using this for my business five years from now, 10 years from now." It is not going away. And that's why I really encourage the long game.
Kelly Doody: Stop thinking about just the next week and two months and think to yourself, what is Instagram going to have done for me two years from now? How do I want to invest in it currently?" Just like you would with a blog or just like you would with a video series. So, at the end of the day we need to think about whether live fills the right bucket for us as well. I read a really great line from actually Michael Stelzner of Social Media Examiner, who puts on the conference, it sounds like you guys attended or listen to. And for them they made a big decision that Social Media Examiner was no longer going to be using Facebook Live. And that was a big... They were heavy users. They had a big show on live.
Kelly Doody: And I love the simple analogy that we feel like we are trying to post a documentary on a billboard on the side of a super highway. People are flying by in their feed and here we're asking them to pause and stop and watch this video right here. Whereas when you're in a video specific platform like YouTube, you expect to be watching videos. You're not necessarily watching it. And I think that's why stories work so well because they're in Instagram, but they're short and quick and I can fly through them so easily. And just like podcasts, when you're diving into a podcast, you know what you're in for and you're folding your laundry or walking your dog at the same time. So you're ready for 45 minutes of juicy stuff. So we've really... It's just so mind blowing to me because I'm such a nerd, but I can't believe how much Facebook Live was so effective a year and a half ago. In terms of also the reach, like the organic reach we could get out of a Facebook video, maybe think to myself, why doesn't everybody stop wanting to be on Breakfast Television and Oprah and just start doing Facebook Lives? You're reaching a hundred times- [crosstalk 00:29:43].
Christine H.: It's very true.
Kelly Doody: However, and that's not to say like things are changing too [inaudible 00:29:48]. We don't invest in anything. Because I really... I don't agree with that sentiment. I think we're living in a time where these platforms have risen to the top as multi-billion dollar enterprises that are not going away and will continue to be invested in. A couple of years ago, everybody was worried that Facebook was like super lame because their mom and their grandma were now on it. And what do you know? Zuckerberg and his pals doubled down on it and made fantastic new features have made it the most powerful advertising platform in the world through Facebook Business Manager. So, yeah, you're in really good hands and it's a safe bet to double down on these platforms. Invest in them, but you don't have to use every single feature within them. Use the ones that make sense for you.
Christine H.: Yeah, I love that. And I think that's a really... because yeah, it's really easy when there's four different ways to share content on the single platform. Yeah, you can get really sidetracked and think you need to do it all. But I think you're right. You have to do what makes sense for you and what seems to work best in terms of what is the best engagement you can. And we were talking about this before we recorded. I'm just finding that my IGTV videos get five times the engagement and the traffic that all the posts in my feed and even what I'm getting in stories. I might get upwards of a thousand views on my IGTV videos. I might get 300 people watching my stories and I'll get like 50 likes.
Kendra: Because its so not close.
Christine H.: And so I'm like don't even know why I'm posting to my feed anymore other than-
Kelly Doody: I know, right?
Christine H.: You know pepper it in just to make it look nice.
Christine H.: Yeah, that’s exactly what I do. I love my feed because I think it's pretty, I'm just a total narcissist and I like just to watch my myself, no. I'm just kidding. But that's what I use my feeds for. Like literally, it's just in a long term. I'm really thinking someone who goes to see my feed and scrolling through it can see like, "okay, she's consistent. She has a certain ranch has she has a certain aesthetic, that's what it's for. It's like my business... my digital business card really. And Instagram stories is for the promotional push that I need sometimes or for fun, like literally showing pieces of me that don't belong in my feed because they're too goofy or then just me and I just don't want it to break up the prettiness.
Christine H.: But it's also interesting when you said, trying things. Because I always thought, "Instagram stories I don't want to make anything that's longer than five seconds or 15 seconds." And then I saw that Kendra was doing a lot of videos on there that a little bit longer, like not eternity, but still a little bit like that take like five taps, for example. Jimmy Palma did one recently. Not too hot topic at all, but I watched the whole thing, so I've tried it. And what doesn't make sense to me though is that when you look at who watches your story, you can see, okay they watched the first part, they watched the second, then they didn't watch the third, but they watched the fourth and the sixth again, which is really weird to me. So I don't quite understand how that works in their brain or in the feed. I don't know.
Christine H.: But it's interesting for me to kind of dissect it and to also see who's watching because it's very surprising and you can actually adapt what you're saying and what you're marketing to who is actually watching. Because I found people won't comment. The people won't, like a lot of them won't. But when you see in stories who's watching, you can actually tailor your audience to that, which I think is just fantastic.
Kelly Doody: Yeah, that's brilliant Christine, because I mean what you're describing right there is optimizing your content and you can optimize your Ads based on what's working, what's not. It's the same as AB Testing. It's the same as just essentially understanding your audience and catering it to them. And you can do it in a really like super nerdy reporting style way with lots of metrics. Or you can do what I love to call Anecdotal Analytics. I know this is working because of that. I know that that got a sick amount of views because we were moving down the street as we filmed that IGTV. We opened the door and welcomed someone in versus doing our typical sit down to talking heads style interview where we're 15 feet away.
Kelly Doody: Someone said recently or I think it actually started when Facebook Live first launched, they said if you're holding the phone more than an arms length the way you're doing it wrong. [crosstalk 00:33:45]. Yeah. And that was also because Live are same with Periscopes and with Meerkat, before that they were all about... it was a two way broadcast. So are you just speaking at people or are you welcoming them in? Of course IGTV is more of like you're filming a broadcast. But then how are you engaging with them after that fact? And again, just going back to those conversions. What is working well as you just described Christine like you know this is working, so I'm going to do more of that and this is totally tailored to this group. And even more so I'm going to further boost it to people like that in my killer audiences that I've pre-created in Facebook Business Manager.
Kelly Doody: So I'm going to just reach women age 25 to 32 who love, I don't know, CrossFit and Green Smoothies and live in London, England or something, right? But we're specific because Facebook will take your money and run. But it's super targeted and tailored to then further promote that content to like-minded audiences or a look alike audience of that. The group that watched that video, great. I'm actually headed into, I don't know Philadelphia with a conference. I've got a market that same video to a look alike audience of a similar profile of women in that market and I'm going to nail it. And it goes back to that idea of like instead of spraying and praying, I love the orchard example.
Kelly Doody: In the olden days just spray the whole field with water or rain and now we drip the water into the base of every Apple tree because that is where it's going to be most effective costs as the least amount of money and reach only those who give a crap. A million people are not an audience for anything. 100,000 if you're in a big market or 10,000 a smaller market, whatever that looks like for you is where we win, when we can tailor and target and now we're spending a lot less too.
Christine H.: So curious what types of audiences, because I know like I'm familiar with the audiences that you can create for Facebook Ads on Facebook, but what about Instagram? Like what audiences [crosstalk 00:35:35] Instagram we are all on the same page.
Kendra: Yeah, I love it.
Kelly Doody: Facebook is already at this thing where I'm like, "I just still mourn all the money that has gone down the Facebook Ads or texts and I still don't understand. But I love Instagram, and the only Apps that I mostly see that or that's target to me. I don't know why a luxurious cars, Villas, [inaudible 00:35:57] and cats. So obviously I'm in some target group there, but I don't even remotely see what kind of Ad I could do and who I target it to. Like it's so intimidating to me and I'm so like, "no, I don't want to waste all that money again." I don't even see what it would look like on Instagram. So hit me.
Kelly Doody: Okay. I'm like going like this because I'm like, "Oh because I like, "its my favorite nerdy topic right now." Again like art is great, right? And this is my problem with agencies is that I'm like, "you've guys we've got yes, beautiful photographers, videographers, graphic designers, animators, copywriters, headline expert, like yes." But we can all now do that." And if you're half good at it, and even what happened in our agency world is we... you have these clients that you're doing this for, "hey, we're content strategists now we're going to create your brilliant content, make you have all your A words shine, great." But after a while, that company hopefully figures that out and we're like, "we can do this awesome." That is where the agencies are not stepping up and we're marketers are so under-trained. And at least once a day I have someone email me and say, "hey Kelly, do you know any digital gurus, digital wizards?
Kelly Doody: And I'm like, "what you really mean as someone that can kill it for you on your Instagram, Facebook, Google Ads, right? With the side of SEO." With the side of SEO and they are like, "yeah, yeah that." So the thing about it is this none of these platforms are rocket science. And I say that because if they were then no Joe-blow like you and me would spend money on them and actually make Mark and his friends billions of dollars. And sadly for traditional media, this is where advertisers are spending their money because that's where the eyeballs are. When there's 2.2 billion people actively using Facebook every month, we better be advertising now and showing up there. And the more and more that the big multi-national companies like Proctor and Gamble and Ford Motor car. Everybody who advertises in the first 10 pages of Vogue magazine. Those guys are shifting more of their dollars away from Vogue and into Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn advertising.
Kelly Doody: But we can still do this at a super affordable way. So the way we do it is through Facebook Business Manager, right? Facebook Business Manager is not the same as a Business page. It is a platform-
Christine H.: So even If you're advertising on Instagram, you still want to use Facebook business manager?
Kelly Doody: That's right. The first thing you do is you add your... you connect your pages in your accounts, both Instagram and Facebook. Then you create your audiences, which you can create the most insanely. They're so good. They should be illegal. Like I can upload my email list and my subscribers and I can then target them on Instagram stories with an Ad. I can target... I can have a pixel firing them to my website, which takes four seconds to install. And then anybody who's been on my website on this particular page in the last 30 days, or they were on a year ago and haven't been back, or they landed on that checkout page but didn't buy or I can target them with an Ad. And now I have this beautiful way to move people again through my funnel, first of all, from awareness to action. But also I can then choose whatever placements I want. So this is everything from Facebook feeds to marketplace to Facebook Messenger, Facebook Stories, as well as Instagram feed, Instagram stories, Instagram... IGTV wherever I want to. So this is-
Christine H.: So you can advertise on IGTV?
Kelly Doody: Yes.
Kendra: Oh, very cool. I was not aware of that. I haven't been in my Facebook Ads dashboard in a while. That's so cool. Yeah. And when I was running Ads to stories, I did find that the story Ads were really high. They converted really highly and it was so easy. It was literally like a 15 second video of me being like, "hey, I got this free cheat sheets swipe up." And it was just like... it wasn't produced. It was just me walking around in my living room. And I think that works well because it kind of fits in with all the other stories. So it almost doesn't look like an Ad. And it converted so well and it was really cheap cost per lead.
Christine H.: Question, do you need to have an Instagram Business Account or can it be Personal Business Account? Because mine is on personal right now.
Kelly Doody: Yeah, now that's one of those little tricks they pulled on us, right? Same way we were all encouraged to have a Business page. I will say though that as a business, you get so much more insight about your audience as well as these business tools when you become a Business page. Does your organic reach go down? Yeah, it does. But at the same time, so has our personal reach and if we want to get really strategic as... and maybe it's not this year, maybe you're going to still use your personal feed in a way and you feel like it's effective and you're going experiment with content. And then you're going to start doing more of that whole right brain stuff. No way, I always confused those two.
Kelly Doody: But more of the backend stuff when you're ready to strategically advertise. And the first thing we always say is, "when it comes to paid reach and getting your content more seen as not that I exist to tell them when people who spend money on the internet by any means. However, I will be very frank and saying, "if you want to actually have results from your Social media, you need to be advertising on Facebook, Instagram or Google. It just is the way it is. It won't be seen. So start small, start with promoted posts, but don't just blindly boost a post for $20 to men and women who live in-
Christine H.: That the people who like this page. That's the worst audience ever.
Kelly Doody: Yes.
Christine H.: I'm like who are those people? You have no idea if it's the friends of the people who like your page or your ideal client. I think that's the only way more horrible [inaudible 00:41:13].
Kelly Doody: Yeah. And when you get a bit better at it, and I'm telling you it just takes a bit of time and commitment to the platform. You get really familiar with it and becomes super fun because for us, if we're going into Regina with a conference. If we spend $1,000 on Ads in Regina on both of those platforms and maybe some third party sites, which we can do as well. Then we expect to at least sell $10,000 worth of tickets. But generally we'll see not a 10X return, but like a 30X return and it's incredible. And if a certain Ad is not doing well and it's costing us more than 30 cents a Click through, then we'll turn it off and optimize the ones that are working.
Christine H.: Yeah. And I think it really comes down with, you got to know who you're talking to. You can't just blindly put some Ad out into the world that has no purpose. You don't know what the end goal is to a bunch of people who are random. And I know in our audience, they have a lot of resistance I guess towards like defining who they're actually talking to, defining their avatar. And this is something I talk about a lot but a lot of the coaches I work with, they just... they have analysis paralysis. Is that's it?
Kelly Doody: Yeah.
Christine H.: And they just can't figure it out. And I'm like, "just pick something, like test it." [crosstalk 00:42:23] You have talking to because if you just put out a random Ad to random group of people, you're wasting your money.
Kelly Doody: Totally. Yeah, you're absolutely right. Testing your content and then also testing any kind of investment you're making in the same way that maybe you still feel like Radio campaigns and Postcard Mail drops are working for you. Great, but if you don't actually have a stake in that and an interest in knowing, "well how many did that actually convert? I put a promo code on that postcard. Not one was redeemed." Okay, point noted. Versus maybe this campaign over here that I ran on Instagram or this just basic promoted post for $100. Not only did it garner me some conversions and traffic to my site, awesome. Because I'm paying attention to my Google Analytics and seeing where they came from. But I also got all these new followers and engagements and now these people are with me for hopefully likes, if I do a good job versus a one-off flat engagement with a postcard that I'm never going to see them again. So, yeah.
Kendra: Excited! 2020, I'm going to just see what I'll actually do 2020 but it's going to involve some Ads again. I'm going build up my trust again and just try. But not Facebook. I am not friends with Facebook but Instagram-
Christine H.: Well I think Instagram ads are a good opportunity. And I'm not sure if it's still like this but I know the IG Story Ads did... were pretty cheap. I was getting three cents a lead like that. Yeah. I wasn't even paying just a story. It's got me like 24k so, okay.
Kelly Doody: Yeah. And I still think there's a lot of organic opportunities on Instagram, but I think once you get to a certain part in your business, you need something that's reliable and that's really where the Ads come in. It's not just like bring it out and hoping, but actually knowing that this many people are going to see this Ad in the right group and then you can start predicting how much money you should bring in. Yeah.
Kendra: Especially depending if you have courses, which I feel a lot of our clients steal client, our listeners do or if you have products like supplements or anything like that, I think that is where it's hard. And just doing high end Ads might not be exactly that, but business mentoring might be. So you need to see what is your price point, what makes sense.
Kelly Doody: Yeah. And if you're doing it well and again, paying attention to the return that you're getting, excuse me. You get to a point where we're a small business as well. Like I have... we're a team of four, but we are going into new markets and we need to be taken seriously and we need to grow our... all the things, all the revenue, bottom line things everybody else does. And I'm at a point where I'm like, "if I had 17 credit cards that I can throw down on Instagram Ads every month, I would." Gary Vaynerchuk said this all whole day long. He was a very brush marketer from New York. But like down on these, because they're undervalued right now and under-utilized. And that's changing. The keywords that I used to bid on for marketing education Ads on Google. So Google Keyword Ad that might've cost me $2 in 2002 is now $36 to bid on for in 2019 are way more hundred dollars sometimes.
Kelly Doody: So Facebook's nowhere near that yet and Instagram. But as I said, as more and more people start to shift their dollars from traditional to digital, and I don't just mean a digital version of the newspaper. I mean like literally social norms, then these costs rise. But right now we're in this golden era of being able to really reach people magnificently and you will see return. It's terrifying when you start spending thousands of dollars monthly on Facebook and Instagram Ads, but when you're getting 20, $30,000 in sales or in leads as a result, why wouldn't you do it?
Christine H.: Yeah. I don't know who said this, but I heard someone say, "Don't be cheap with your dream." And I love that because yeah, if a lot of us, we build a business, it's our dream to work from home or retire our partners or whatever it is. We really, really want this. We're very emotionally tied to it. And you can't just do it for free. You have to invest in it if you care about it. So don't be a cheap ass.
Kelly Doody: That's right. And first learn how to do it so you don't just burn your money. But any one can learn this stuff. I know it feels overwhelming just like anything but pay someone to do it for Christ's sake. [crosstalk 00:46:30].
Kendra: If I don't want to do that. I'm just like, "no." But I really don't mind paying a good agency to do that job.
Christine H.: Totally.
Kelly Doody: Yeah. Or pay someone and like the great thing is you can learn all this shit on YouTube. Like there are so many great videos. I've learned a lot of what I know about Instagram by going on YouTube and like following specifically people who have a lot of knowledge on the topic. And just getting all those tips and tricks, trying it out, testing it, seeing if it works and going from there.
Christine H.: Exactly.
Kendra: Totally. Brilliant. Well that was my brain exploding kind of contents. I loved it. Thank you so much Kelly.
Kelly Doody: My pleasure. I really, really loved chatting with you guys and hopefully your listeners are likely in a place like many of our students where they're figuring it out themselves and then they're feeling pretty empowered by it.
Christine H.: Yeah. And they can either start hiring Kendra and I very soon. So we're going to do more on that in the future. And I'm just teasing [inaudible 00:47:26]. But... Or they can obviously get in touch with you. So Kendra and I hire our own guests on a regular basis.
Kendra: We hire them all the time. It's so funny. [crosstalk 00:47:39]. We need to hire this person.
Christine H.: Like I said, Kendra texts like, "I hired her." I'm like, "me too."
Kendra: Where can our students find out more about you Kelly? If they want to connect with you and Social school and what you do, how can they find you?
Kelly Doody: Thank you so much. Yeah, we're at socialschool.io. Inputs, Outputs is IO. And we have plenty of... we try to produce as much free content as we can that supports people. We'd like to be a resource first and foremost and the how-to-people. So try not to inspire but also equip. And we've got tons of courses that start $29 that are platform specific for Instagram for business, blogging for business. We have an IGTV course if you want more on that. And they go right up to digital and social media certifications and so-
Kendra: Amazing. I'll be checking into us courses like.
Kelly Doody: Thank you.
Kendra: I know it's like I stated it, "no, stop. Why didn't you finish that's 50,000 that I already have [crosstalk 00:48:32].
Christine H.: I love buying courses. I just love- [crosstalk 00:48:40].
Kelly Doody: Totally. We have one with some coaching along with, it's called our Guided Online Stream where the completion rates are very high and we hold you to it. We meet every week for webinars and quizzes and two days in office hours. Yeah. That's my favorite.
Christine H.: Yeah, it's good. I know a lot of people who... they're like "I own $30,000 of courses and I haven't completed one." And you're like, "Oh my God! you've got to finish those." Totally. I love it. Yeah. Aren't we funny?
Kelly Doody: Well thank you very much you guys. And there's a bunch of free resources too, I think it's at our website there. If you subscribe to our newsletter, you get access to our dashboard of tons of tip sheets and downloads.
Christine H.: That sounds juicy. We'll definitely link to that in the show news for this episode. Thank you so much Kelly. We really, really appreciate it. Thank you for hanging out with us and talking stuff and being ridiculous and laughing. We always appreciate it and thank you everyone for listening. Remember, if you liked this episode, make sure to screenshot it, share to your Instagram stories and let us know your take-homes. Let us know what you learned. And mention 360 help is podcast and we will share it back to our stories because we love Instagram.
Kendra: And leave us a five star review on iTunes, [inaudible 00:49:43] guys. We would love it.
Christine H.: We love your reviews and we will read it on air and give you a shout out and yeah. We will come at you again in another week with a Biz Bomb, which will be super juicy and it'll explode your brain. Take care.
You absolutely need a contract with your clients to ensure your butt is covered when things come up. But what is the MOST important thing you should include?
The #1 thing you absolutely must have in your client contracts is the Absence Rule! In this Biz Bomb episode we blow your mind with WHY you need this rule in your contracts to make sure those clients that disappeared last year don’t reappear asking to restart their package.
An Absense Rule is when you set a period of time where if the client is gone for that period of time and decides to return later (no joke, Kendra has had clients appear 2 years after going MIA) that you have a rule that says in order to restart their package, they need to pay a percentage of their original package cost or an additional fee to get started.
An Absence Rule is going to save you time & money down the road. Let’s say you do have a client that shows up after two years of not being present. In those two years a lot may have changed – your schedule is more busy, your packages may have changed, or you may have increased your pricing. Without an Absence Rule, that client could come back and have the same package for the same price even though your new clients are all paying more and for a new package! Plus it’s extra admin work to get the old client back on track.
In order for your client to notice these sort of rules, we suggest making important rules like the Absence Rule a check box. That way down the road if they come back and say they didn’t know about it, you can show them that they checked off that they signed for it.
At the end of the day, YOU are the person that gets to run your business, your clients don’t get to do that. So YOU are the one that needs to put these rules in place. Don’t be afraid to go overboard and be a tyrant with rules. Of course you can make exceptions if you feel you need to. By having the rules in place on the contract, you avoid having to break all the rules for EVERYONE and can break the rules sometimes for EXCEPTIONS.
If you like what you hear, be sure to subscribe to the 360 Health Biz Podcast so you keep up to date with all our episodes. And if you’re a Instragam stalker like we are, be sure to take a screenshot of the episode, post it to Instagram & tag us and we will share out your praise!
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Hey guys, welcome to another biz bomb for the 360 Help Biz podcast. I am your host Kendra Perry, and I'm hanging out with you today and we're going to be talking about the number one thing that you should never leave out of a client contract. This is going to be juicy, because it took me a while to figure out that I actually needed this in my contract when I was a health coach. It's really important, and if you don't have it in, then you could cause yourself a lot of headache and you could totally get taken advantage of.
Number one, why are client contracts so important? It's really important to set forth the expectations and the boundaries with your client, and make sure they sign off on them so that they know what they're getting, and they know how they need to interact with you, and how things are going to go with your coaching program. Your contract will definitely evolve over time. Mine started out as a one page thing and evolved into a five page contract, because as I came across certain situations, I would realize that I definitely needed that in my contract.
Don't be afraid to go overboard when making a contract, because the thing is, if something happens with a client and you want to make an exception, you can always make an exception. For example, if you say, I don't give refunds, but something crazy happens to this client and their house gets blown down by a hurricane, you can make an exception and give them a refund if you want. But, if it's not in your contract and they request a refund, you just have to do it for them. Your contract is really about covering your butt, setting forth expectations, and then you can make adjustments or make exceptions as you want.
Today, we're going to be talking about the number one thing that you absolutely need in your contract and that you should never leave out, and that is a absence rule. For example, let's say you have a six month coaching, a private coaching, program, for example. You want to run people through it in about six months, but some people are going to fall off track. Maybe they're supposed to be booking appointments with you every two or three weeks, or maybe you do that in advance with them. You book out all their appointments in advance, but then they end up canceling a bunch, and they go off the radar for a couple months, or maybe even a year.
I've had people come show up out of the woodworks after two years or even more. You need to have an absent rule that says, if you were absent for this amount of time, I always use three months, then in order to restart your package, you have to pay this fee, or this percentage of your original package, because, the thing is, is you're running a business. If people come out of the woodwork a year later, you might not actually have space for them. That might be a huge inconvenience to you, because your schedule is already booked up or you're working on other projects.
It's also going to cost you more money with your virtual assistant, or just cost you more time with admin to get this person reset up, to relook over their case, and then to start up their package again. Also, if they show up a year from now, you may have increased your package prices. You may have doubled them or tripled them, and now someone is getting your time for a fraction of the price that your current clients are getting your time. Plus, it's more work because you got to relook at their case.
I really suggest having an absence rule in your contract. That might say that you have a three month absent rule, absence, I don't know why I can't say that word today, absence rule that says, hey, if you go MIA for three months, in order to restart your package, you are going to have to pay 10% or 20% of your original package fee, or you're going to have to pay a $200 fee in order to restart your package. I suggest that people have to check that box. Usually, how I have it set up is, for every clause of my contract, they actually have to check a box that says, yes, that they understand.
That means when, a year later, they go off the radar, they go MIA, and they show up, and they're like, "Hey, I want to finish my package," and you're like, "Oh, you need to pay this 10% starter or restart fee," and they get upset, you can literally send them the contract and be like, "Hey, you signed for this in the contract. You were aware of this." Although, they probably didn't read it. Let's be honest, nobody fucking reads contracts these days, but they should, especially when you're working with someone in that capacity. You can literally show it to them and be like, "Look, you agreed to this. You knew this. You knew you weren't meant to go absent for longer than three months, and so that's why you have to pay this restart fee."
I recommend sticking to it. Sometimes you're going to feel like an asshole. You're going to be like, "Man, I feel like an asshole. This person, they're going to come up with their sob story. They're going to be like, 'Well I've got a divorce. I was really busy, and this happened, and this happened, and this happened.'" Sure, if you want to make an exception, go for it.
This is really important. You're running a business. When people sign on with you, you're taking them on based on the availability you have in your schedule and based off of what is currently going on in your schedule, and in your business. If you don't cover your butt, then people are just going to disappear and come out of the woodwork all over the place even several years later. Maybe they paid $200, and now you're charging $2000. Well, that's a pain in the butt. That is a clause that you 100% want to put in your contract.
I hope this video was helpful, guys. If you're hanging out on IGTV with me right now, in the comments, if you found this helpful, give me a heck yes. I would love to know. If you're on Instagram and you're listening to this episode on your smartphone, make sure to screenshot a photo of this episode and share it to your Instagram stories. Mention 360 Help Biz podcast. Let us know your take homes, and we'll share it to our stories. That is one of the greatest ways you can support the podcast, by letting us know that our episodes are helping you and that you want more content just like this one. Thanks so much guys. We will see you in a week from now, I'm tongue tied today, in a week from now with our next awesome full episode.
Today’s episode is all about outsourcing, hiring, and bringing people onto your team. We were never taught in school how to hire team members or how to bring people on and for a lot of us. You may not know when to hire, how to hire or how to manage a team. Lucky for you, that’s where we can help!
We realize that bring someone on can be super scary because you may think you can’t afford it, but if this is your business and this is your dream, then you don’t want to cheap out on having a dream team that can not only be an extension of you to run your business but also give you more time to grow your business! Your VA may be your biggest expense each month but it’s worth very penny.
For starters, it’s important to determine what actually needs to be done and the time it requires. If you need one off items checked off like graphic design, logo, or a blog post written then you likely can contract that work out through a freelancer (see our show notes below on some of the site we use for this). When it comes to ongoing responsibilities like answering emails, creating protocols, etc. you really want to vet these people to determine if they are right for your team.
To determine what can be taken off your plate, ask yourself, "What do I lack skills in? What do I hate doing?” because you're not going to be good at everything and there will be someone out there that IS good at it and loves doing it. So write down the things that you actually should be doing in your business. Things that are going to be helping move your business forward. Things that help you make money. This will help you get a better idea of the type of person you need to hire or what jobs can be contracted out.
When you’re ready to hire, do your research. Ask for references, ask for examples of their work, ask A LOT of questions to determine if they are a good fit. Don’t be afraid to take your time to find the right person. As our business coach says “Hire slow, fire fast." You’ll likely know within a month if they will work out or not. And if they don’t work out then don’t waste your time trying to micromanage them. Because at the end of the day, whoever you hire needs to be devoted to your business as much as you are. Your business needs to be their baby as much as it is yours. You need to be open and honest with your team - tell them how you appreciate them and tell them if you’re pissed off. Similar to a relationship, if you don’t communicate how you feel then they will never know. And when you don’t see each other face to face every day in the office, that makes communication even more important.
Here are some of the tools we discussed in the episode:
- Evernote (listen our Biz Bomb about Evernote)
Connect with us on social:
Kendra Perry: Hey, what's up, 360 Health Biz people, listeners, friends? What's going on? My name is Kendra Perry and we have another amazing episode of the 360 Health Biz Podcast lined up for you today. I bet you guys can guess, but I'm hanging out with someone super special today. Who do you think it is? It's Christine, my business bestie and favorite person to hang out with at 8:00 in the morning, ever.
Christine: Who else? Seriously. Welcome, welcome everyone, to the podcast.
Kendra Perry: Yeah, and we got a great episode planned for you guys today, as always. I think all of our episodes are pretty awesome, but maybe this one will be especially enlightening for you guys. We're going to be talking about outsourcing, and hiring, and bringing people onto your team, which is really important. This is a really important part of running a business and it's something that most of us have no idea about, right? We never got taught in school how to hire team members and how to bring people on and for a lot of us, this is our first time business. We both have experience hiring teams and I've made a lot of mistakes. I think, Christine, you've done it a lot better than I have. So we're going to bring a lot of our own perspective to today's episode, so we'll dive into that. But first, we do want to read a very sexy review.
Christine: Oh, it's on our Facebook page. So much love, I could die. So Rainy Miller, thank you. We adore you. She basically posted, under the little video with Dr. Tim, you should check that out, Dr. Tim Jackson, "This is my all time favorite podcast, I never miss an episode. Kendra and Christine forever! Woooo!" We love you.
Kendra Perry: We love you.
Christine: That's the kind of stuff we live for, right?
Kendra Perry: Yes.
Christine: Because we always think we're talking to the void and actually knowing that someone is listening, it's just super amazing. So thank you so much for sharing.
Kendra Perry: I know, we're always like, "Is there anyone out there?" Then when we hear that you are out there and that you like our crazy, ridiculous banter, we get pretty excited.
Christine: [inaudible 00:01:57] everyone that someone is listening, but it's [crosstalk 00:02:00]. So thanks, guys for cherishing us, for listening to us, and giving us your time. Well, we'll try not to waste it. So [crosstalk 00:02:08], this is an awesome topic. I absolutely love talking about outsourcing. We have very different ways of doing this. So the first question that we would actually talk about is when is a good start for hiring? And I don't even remember when I hired my first person, but maybe we should talk about the different kinds of hiring in terms of freelancers and in terms of assistants. So I guess that's two different categories, right?
Kendra Perry: Yeah.
Christine: I would really distinguish between people who can do no-brainer stuff in terms of maybe creating graphics when you give them instructions or entering data or something like that and then people who really have you run your business.
Kendra Perry: Yup.
Christine: Yeah. I think most of us start with the first, you know?
Kendra Perry: Yeah. I think like, you know, you can just hire these people for these one-off things, right? If you're like, "Well, I suck at graphics. I'm going to bring people on to make a logo or do this or do that," and they're not really technically like team members, right? They're just people who come on to do these one-time jobs and then maybe you keep them on the back burner for later versus like a virtual assistant, which is someone who's going to be on your team. They help you run your business. You're probably going to be in contact with them every day. And if you don't do well with hiring your virtual assistant, it can really negatively affect your business versus, you know, a one-off contractor. If you have a bad experience, you're just like okay not going to hire that person again. I can hire someone else, right?
Christine: Yeah, and it's not as expensive, you know.
Kendra Perry: Yeah, it's true.
Christine: Different platforms that we use, the most famous one are going to be Fiverr because everything used to be for five bucks. I don't think there is any gig on Fiverr that's only five bucks anymore, actually.
Kendra Perry: Yeah, I would be surprised. I would be surprised. I don't use Fiverr, but I use Upwork, and I think those are the two that we both use. I don't know if there's other ones out there, but those are the primary ones that I use. I use Upwork all the time, but I don't actually remember ... I'm trying to think of when I first brought someone on. I think I had people doing those one-off kind of jobs for a while and then I brought my virtual assistant on probably after about two years, but I actually should've done it a lot earlier.
Christine: Yeah, I think it was the same for me. I learned how to use Canva and then it took me so much time and somebody told me about Fiverr and at the time, everything was still five bucks.
Kendra Perry: Yeah.
Christine: So I hired someone to do graphics for me and then at the very beginning of my journey, I entered a mastermind that was way too advanced for me actually at the time. But we all got an account at a company like in the Philippines and they worked with Sprint. They were doing everything. It kind of worked and it kind of didn't and I think that's also what you need to be careful for. Sometimes you have people who sit on the other end of the world and they are very affordable.
Christine: However, what I found was that you need to be super, super, super, super, super precise in what you want because otherwise, they don't quite follow. They also have a little bit of a different taste than we do. If you go to that kind of market, it's a little bit more blingy. It's just a different vibe. It's different graphic design culture. So I found that you wasted a lot of time going through alterations and changes and everything. So you really have to weigh out, okay, is this worth describing a hundred times or do I hire someone who might be closer and has the same graphics and the same taste but might be three times more expensive, which is still only 15 bucks.
Kendra Perry: Yeah, so true. Yeah, you definitely want to be choosy. And coming back around to at what point in the business should people actually be bringing people in, I think you should do it earlier on than maybe what most people are doing. I see a lot of coaches out there who are doing everything and they're overwhelmed. They're stressed out, like they feel frazzled, they feel unfocused, and a lot of their time is spent doing like admin stuff that anyone could be doing.
Kendra Perry: And we realized that it's scary to bring someone on because maybe, you know, you're only making a couple thousand or less than 5K a month in your business and you're like, "Well, I can't afford it," but you know, if this is your business and this is your dream, I don't think you should be cheap with it. And I think if you can open up 5 or 10 hours a week in your schedule to actually be working on things that you need to be doing, like marketing, and doing videos, and you know, whatever those things are on your business that only you should be doing, then you're going to save a lot of time, right?
Kendra Perry: And this was the mistake I made. You know, I don't think I hired someone until I was two years in and I was doing customer service. Like all my time was spent with the behind-the-scene stuff. I was sending out the intake, responding to emails, bringing in the clients. It was crazy. And when I brought someone on, even though it costs me money, it was like oh my god, I have literally 15 hours a week in my schedule and then my business, you know ... But honestly, you don't have to spend that much. Like my first virtual assistant was $7 an hour.
Christine: Yeah, I think it goes-
Kendra Perry: And she was good for what I needed.
Christine: Exactly. It goes all across the board and I think you really need to know what you need. If it's someone who's just copy pasting emails or who's just copying links and sends them to your clients, you can have someone who's maybe not super talented in terms of maybe not even the English language or the language that you work at or, you know, who is not great at taking initiative, it's fine. If you can just tell them this is process A, this is process B, you just copy paste this. That's totally fine then, perfect.
Kendra Perry: Yeah.
Christine: My first real ... I tried a couple of virtual assistants, but the first virtual assistant I had was 20 bucks an hour if I'm someone in the States and I really reached limits very quickly with her. Like she couldn't Canva, she was not able to do a table in Word documents. I was surprised because I saw that she was looking for a lot of other entrepreneurs and I was just like, "She can't do anything." She was really nice but not very smart and she couldn't take initiative. So that was more frustrating than anything else. So the assistant that I have now, it was just really lucky. It was her first ever assistant gig, so I got a pretty cheap. But what happened is that obviously, see some my business grow because I had time, as Kendra said, I could live, I could breathe, I could be creative, I could get clients, I could actually work. So my income rose exponentially and so within the first six months, she doubled her pricing you know, which is only fair because she's totally worth it. She's my biggest business expense per month, but I'd die without her.
Kendra Perry: She's amazing though. We love Tamara. Christina has a fantastic assistant.
Kendra Perry: So maybe let's address some of the things that you outsource. Like what are some of the tasks that people might be doing? Are people even thinking like is this something I can outsource? What are some of the things that people can get other people to do?
Christine: Pretty much everything apart from you working with your clients. I even have her doing the protocols. Like I'd send her a voice memo and tell her what the protocol should be and she knows how to fill it in and she sends it. So she does the onboarding process. An onboarding process, what does that mean? So I talk to someone, they decide to become a client and then what they get is a client intake form, a scheduling for their sessions, a contract, and a payment link. That's what she does. She's in my inbox so she sends it out to them.
Christine: Another thing that she does is when people contact me for more information, she will reply to them and send them a scheduling link to get a call with me. Then protocols, I just tell her what I want, she does that. Content creation, I literally create one video. She takes the video, she puts it on Facebook, she sends it over to Rev to get it transcribed, then she takes this transcript, she puts it into a blog post. She creates the graphics for the blog posts. She puts it on YouTube. She creates the thumbnail for that. She puts it on Pinterest, makes a picture for that, makes a picture for Twitter. She puts it in my social media feeder that sends it out to all of those platforms and schedules a couple of times a year.
Christine: She does all of that. She puts it on my podcast platform. All of those things I don't need to do. It's not like they take a huge amount of time, but I hate doing them. So to me it feels like I'm working 10 hours when it's just one hour because I don't enjoy doing it and she does it much better than I do. She also organizes everything. Like she organizes my graphics, she does my Instagram posts now, and that's what she is doing and we'll talk a little bit about how I told her later. So what else can they do? Kendra, what is, what are your assistants doing that I've forgotten?
Kendra Perry: Yeah. Well, I have like a social media manager. We have a manager for our podcast, right? I hire people to do SEO, graphics, logos. I've had people do transcriptions. Like now, I use Rev, but before I used to hire people to do transcriptions. I've hired people to do slides. I've hired people to write blog posts for my website. I've hired people for pretty much like every aspect. And I would say when you're thinking of like what's the first kind of piece of my business that I should break off and get someone to do, ask yourself, "What do I suck at? What am I bad at," because you're not going to be good at everything.
Kendra Perry: I would say graphics were never my strong suit. I think I've actually gotten a lot better at graphics over time with practice, but I'm not an artist. I used to create like the crappiest, '90s looking graphics ever. So for me to hire a graphic designer, that was really helpful. You know, I don't do good at backend web stuff, like web design and all the tech stuff. So I've hired people to go in and do the backend of my website. SEO I have no desire to do, so I've hired someone to do that. I would just say like, "What are you bad at and what are the things that anyone can do?" Like really sit down-
Christine: What is it you don't enjoy and they [crosstalk 00:12:04]? Like I just hired someone for 15 bucks on Fiverr to do hashtag research. I don't even know what to look for. They love that kind of stuff and spend time on Instagram analyzing all of this. So then they just send me a list of 200 hashtags that are related to my business that I can try out and see what is working, you know.
Kendra Perry: Oh, that's a good idea. I'm going to do that.
Christine: So I just have it in my list and now I'm trying out 5 to 10 each post for a week and then the same, and then I'll just see what creates engagement and what creates followers and stuff.
Kendra Perry: Yup.
Christine: Both Kendra and I have an Instagram agency. Kendra is really happy. My account, I don't know if they lose it. It's just not the same experience, which is interesting for you.
Kendra Perry: Yeah, it is interesting.
Christine: So we'll see. But I think those are things that we don't have the time or the energy or don't want to spend the energy on and I think that's crucial because sometimes you can do it. Of course we can, but it's really draining and not productive to your business at all.
Kendra Perry: Yeah, and it sucks to just feel like you're actually working. I would say like get a journal or use a note app like Evernote, we love Evernote, and just sit down and write down the things that you actually should be doing in your business. Things that are going to be helping move the business forward. Things that help you make money. Things that other people can't do like showing up on Facebook live or Instagram stories or creating packages or working with clients. And then write down the things that either you don't like doing, they drain you, you're not good at or things that anyone can do and start to look at that and start to see, well what's going to give me the most bang for my buck?
Kendra Perry: And for me, it was customer service. You know, I was getting so many emails coming in and then I felt like when I was also the customer service people, there was no boundaries between me and my clients. They just felt like they could access me anytime because I was the person doing everything. And so for me, bringing someone on was really worth it because it helped me create that clear separation between people who were coming in the door who I may or may not want to work with versus the people I was working with. And for me, I hate customer service. I hate emailing. You should see my email inbox right now. It's a mess. It's a disaster because I hate email. It's just not my thing. So for me, to bring someone on to do that, emotionally, it helped a lot.
Christine: Yeah. No, absolutely. And I think we all have those weaknesses and also the types of customers. I think depending on what you focus on, you might have a little bit more loving but needy customers. I saw it with my price changing that when I try to charge less, my customers a little bit more high-maintenance. Now that I charge a little more they're actually much easier to work with. It's really weird but it works that way. So that's definitely one thing. You need to figure out what you don't want to do and that you can outsource. If it doesn't have your face, if it doesn't have your voice, if it's not your core that it needs, then you can outsource it, basically.
Kendra Perry: Yeah, totally. So I know we both use different freelancer platforms. I use Upwork, you use Fiverr. There are other places you can post jobs. I posted jobs on Indeed. I posted jobs on LinkedIn. You can also reach out to your community, right? Like if you're in some Facebook groups from maybe like the nutrition school you went to or you're in various groups with other entrepreneurs you can ask for recommendations.
Christine: Yeah, and I've recently also had someone who figured out that she's using an intern from university. So she went to a university and she set out to, she went to that pin board thing and she was saying, "I'm looking for an intern in graphic design. I'm looking for an intern in project management," and she didn't even have to pay them but she wrote them a review afterwards from her company, which is actually something I consider doing at some point maybe, I don't know. I'm really happy with what I have, but it's just an idea that I have.
Christine: Now, I just want you to give you word of cautions for Upwork because I don't find it's the most user friendly platform in the world. I still don't understand how it works exactly, but you have different ways you can do like a gig and you pay them a fixed amount for that or you can do it hourly. I still don't understand how it works, but what happened to me is that I had a really dishonest person who basically just manually logged all of those hours, closed the gig, the money went from my PayPal account, and then they closed that Upwork account. So they were gone with my money.
Kendra Perry: Wow.
Christine: And I'd asked Upwork multiple times, I'd told them about it and then they were like, "Oh well, that person doesn't exist anymore. We can't help you." I never got that money back. It was over €300 so it was a lot of money. I was super pissed. So I'm never using it again. But you're probably smarter than I am.
Kendra Perry: Yeah.
Christine: [crosstalk 00:16:48] break on this.
Kendra Perry: Well, the thing about Upwork that's cool is you can really do your research on the person because they have a profile, they have a portfolio, but people also leave them reviews. So you can see what people have said about them, what rating. They get an overall rating on top. You can actually see how much money they've made on Upwork. There's people who have not made any money, they're brand new versus people who've made like $200,000 on Upwork. They have like a hundred different reviews of people saying anything. They have a rating. You can see how they've been active. You can get a lot of information about them, so you definitely want to do your research. That's a really crazy experience and that's super shitty. I can't believe you had that experience.
Kendra Perry: You can always get scammed, there's always a possibility, but I've done pretty well with Upwork. I mean, I've had some bad experiences and the freelancers I've hired haven't really delivered or I haven't been super ... I had one girl go MIA and I don't know, maybe she died like I was mad but then I was like, "This is bad," because she never got back to me again and I just got a refund and that was that. But the one thing I will say is when you do an hourly, you're paying people hourly, make sure you limit how many hours a week you want them to work because it'll default as 40 and you'll have freelancers who are like, "Oh, I can work 40 hours a week," and they'll just work 40 hours a week and then ...
Christine: And they do whatever like they just ... Yeah.
Kendra Perry: Yeah, and they may do the job. Like I had someone come on for SEO where I didn't limit it and for SEO you can do SEO forever. You can totally just do SEO forever and all of a sudden I was like, "Oh my God, I owe $300 this week," and I was like, "Oh crap, like 40 hours a week. That's insane." So you just want to make sure you limit you. Maybe if you want to bring someone ongoing for something like SEO, but maybe you just want them to work five hours a week.
Christine: Yeah, just sure you do that.
Kendra Perry: Yeah, just make sure you look into that. Do your research. You can chat with them. You can even hop on like a meeting with them and actually chat with them, which is something I've done a lot, so you can get a feel about people. It depends on the job that you are hiring out for. If it's just a quick like I need a logo or this, you maybe don't need to do that. But if you're bringing someone on for ongoing work, we do really recommend that you actually speak with them and you interview them. And that brings us to the next part of this, which is, you know, what kinds of questions should you be asking when you're bringing people into your business?
Christine: Yeah, I think there's different ways of hiring because obviously Tamara, who I've hired, it's different. I literally posted in a Facebook group that I needed someone and that person needed to speak English, German, and French, which is like a unicorn thing anyway. My clients speak English, German, and French in Luxembourg, so finding someone was just crazy. Here in Luxembourg, nobody's doing virtual assistant, it's just not a thing, and it was really coincidence that she was in that group that day and was just starting to look into it. So it was perfect match in heaven it and she's super, super smart.
Christine: But I think otherwise, I would definitely ask for references if they have some, who they worked for, and I would check up on that. Too often we just take them and say, "Okay, they have them, it's fine." Check up on it because afterwards, when I had my prior assistant, when I talked to someone who had, who I'd seen had worked with her and I assumed they were happy, when I talked to them they actually gave me the same feedback. So we make sure that you check up on that.
Kendra Perry: Yeah.
Christine: What else, Kendra?
Kendra Perry: I would say be super clear about your expectations, like what is this job going to entail, and I would also recommend coming up like what is the overall goal of this position? You know, with a virtual assistant, the bottom line is that people feel that we move people along quickly in their healing journey and they feel supported as we do it. If it falls within that guideline, then people can make decisions based on that kind of bottom line. You know, like obviously, my assistant, if we have people in our membership, for example, where we mess up and if we mess up and we're in the wrong and you want to give them a free month in the membership or two go for it. That's your decision. As long as they're happy, they feel supported and obviously, if it's something we screwed up on because that's going to happen. So I think you know, being super clear about what is the bottom line of the position. What does the position entail? How do you want that person to work with you? What is going to be the communication style?
Kendra Perry: And I think too just trying to ask questions where you can draw out of someone, like are they going to be able to make decisions on your own, because the worst thing about hiring someone or bringing someone on to your team is if you have to micromanage them because that literally is pointless. Like, why even have an assistant if you have to micromanage them? You want to bring people on who can make decisions based on the company goals and you want to bring people on who don't need to come to you for every single question. They take responsibility and pride in the role and they can actually roll with the punches. Obviously, they're going to need to come to you for questions, especially in the beginning, but they should be able to be pretty self-sufficient and that's really important because if you're micromanaging then there's no point in having an assistant.
Christine: Totally, and it's a job. It's a real job. It's not just I am bored, I just want to do something. It's a real, real job. Like it's having someone in your room that needs to do the business. And I think for Tamara, I gave her access to my Dropbox folder and to my "system" and she was like, "Would you mind if I tidy this up or you?" I was like, "Oh my god, hallelujah. Go for it." I hate doing it. I don't organize. My brain doesn't work that way. So I always say that she's my right brain half really and just seeing that she took that initiative ... And you can test them on that like literally. You can do that little old test in that way. I didn't, I promise. It was just I am a mess.
Christine: So those things kind of initiative were amazing, you know? It's just fab. The other thing is so you clear boundaries, absolutely, when they get paid, what they get paid for, how they log their time. There's different platforms that you can use for that too. One that I used was Hubstaff. The way that it does, it logs in. They have to basically start logging and it takes screenshots every few seconds of they're ...
Kendra Perry: Oh, that's cool.
Christine: ... So that you can actually monitor it if you want to. So if you start to suspect that they are taking the pairs and just log time where they do anything, you could go back and actually look at their screen and see what they were doing. So that's a little bit more controlling. Kendra and I now both use Toggl, which is basically you can see in graphics what they've been working on and when they've been working on everything, so that's been pretty helpful. And then what we also used is or what I loved using with Tamara and also showed her initiative was that when she started, I just discovered Loom, L-O-O-M. It's an extension on chrome and it allows you to basically record your screen.
Christine: So when I hired her I was still doing everything by myself so I would just record myself doing it, she would watch the video and then she could do it. And what she did out of her own geniusness was to actually create like a log book. She would take notes down, which now, if I ever need another assistant, she can just pass down and that assistant will then just look at her notes and they will know the onboarding process. They will know where to look for what and she's much more organized than I am, so she did that on her own. But I think-
Kendra Perry: That's amazing though. That is so, so, so important and this is something that I can't stress enough. If your assistant isn't creating some sort of manual or log book or whatever it is, then you're going to be screwed when they leave. I've made a lot of mistakes and this is what happened to me. My first assistant, I was like, "Hey, I need you to update the manual. Update the manual anytime we change anything," because you're always going to be changing procedures and if you have a good VA, they might actually change some things to optimize them and make them better. But if they're not logging that and keeping track of the changes that you make, when you bring someone else on, you're not even going to know how to train them. You have no idea what's going on. Even though I kept telling my original assistant to do that, she didn't do it and when I brought someone new on it was literally a fucking disaster and then it turned into another disaster. I had a really bad experience hiring someone [crosstalk 00:25:20].
Christine: Yeah. Like someone.
Kendra Perry: Yeah, it was bad, but honestly, I learned so much from it, but the mistakes that I made is I wasn't clear about my expectations. I went against my intuition. My intuition was telling me something was off, but I'd made the decision ahead of time when I found this person's Instagram and I was like, "Oh, they're a virtual assistant agency for health coaches. This is so amazing. They can do everything," and I got really excited. But the interview I had with her was off. She was late and then it was off and I should have taken note of that. But at that point, I was so overwhelmed with my current assistant and how much micromanaging I was doing that I just sort of like made this decision out of desperation, which was a mistake.
Kendra Perry: The other thing that I made the mistake on is I adapted to their communication systems and not the other way around. You need to set expectations with how you want to communicate with your people. And this agency, they were like, "Oh, we don't use Slack. We don't use email. We only use Voxer." So if you guys are familiar with Voxer, it's just a voice messaging app. It has its place, but that can't be the only way you communicate with people because it's not searchable. It's not searchable and ...
Christine: And it deletes conversation after a while.
Kendra Perry: It deletes conversation and you also ramble. I don't care who you are, but you ramble on voice message and I don't have time to listen to a three-minute voice message when you could just send me a quick message on Slack. So the miscommunication in that situation was literally a disaster. I would be like, "I think I already told her how to do this," and I'd be looking through these Voxer messages and nothing was getting done. If I gave her a hundred balls, she'd drop 99. I was like, "How is this your business?" It was so frustrating. Clients were upset. Even your assistant, Tamara, was like, "What's up with Kendra's assistant?"
Christine: I know. Nothing got done. Everything got fucked up. Nothing was done.
Kendra Perry: I know.
Christine: It was really bad for a while there.
Kendra Perry: It was really, really bad, yeah.
Christine: And it's not just you. I had another coach that I worked with and her assistant was a mess. Calls were not scheduled or I had it scheduled but she didn't and it was all kinds of things and she was like, "I'm sorry, it's my assistant," and she went through a couple of as well. But it really doesn't leave a good impression if these fuck-ups happen. It really, really doesn't, especially if you had a certain price point. It doesn't matter which price point, it never makes a good impression. So really they need to take this very much on heart and I think we decided that we're never going to hire someone else again without giving them like a trial period.
Kendra Perry: Yeah, yeah. Like you'll know within a month if it's going to be a fit. Our business coach, me and Christine share business coach, and she says, "Hire slow, fire fast." Take your time hiring someone, bringing someone on, interview them, vet their references. Really check them out, ask them lots of questions, give them a trial period. But if it's not working, then get rid of them. And maybe you'll know within a month. In about three months, that's how long it'll typically take for them to get super dialed in the position as a virtual assistant, but you'll know pretty quickly if it's working out or not. And make sure that they are following the expectations that you put forward, you know. I have two assistants now who are amazing. I'm in such a good place for assistants now.
Kendra Perry: That situation really helped me learn a lot, but you know, with my communication now it's like we communicate through Slack. That's how it goes. We only communicate through Slack. I don't want you to send me any emails and if we use Voxer, which can be helpful, you know, if you have a long message, you don't want to type it all out, you can use Voxer. But basically, I have people tag me in Slack and be like, "I'm sending you a Voxer message about this topic." They write the topic in Voxer and then they do the message so I can always go back and check it so that we know what each message is about and that I know that someone has Voxered me about a certain situation because yeah, like I said, it's not searchable. It's like a disaster to just use Voxer to communicate.
Christine: No. It's not meant for that. I think it's super unprofessional. I think it's great for different things, but as soon as it's getting a little bit complicated, you need to have it written down. You need to have a trace of it. And I use WhatsApp and mainly Voxer with Tamara, actually, but we've got everything so dialed down like we rarely use email anymore because she just knows exactly way about. So I just send her an email. Did you email that person back? Can you do this and this and this? Because we did the whole onboarding process and my process hasn't changed at all [crosstalk 00:29:40], so yeah.
Kendra Perry: Yeah, I've changed my process like 50 million times. I'm disorganized. This is why I need a VA.
Christine: Well, you changed businesses as well.
Kendra Perry: That is true.
Christine: I mean, you have so many more products than I do. You have a lot of different formats that I don't know. So it's [crosstalk 00:29:59] more complicated structure.
Kendra Perry: I know. I'm currently editing it down. I have too many offers. That's something we should talk about in a future episode is like-
Christine: We should. We should.
Kendra Perry: You know, like really nailing down what your offers are because it's great, I have all these offers and I mean, I have two businesses going right now, which one is slowly going to shut down, but it's just funny because it's like great, I have all these income streams. There's always money coming in, but it's just like I am literally a [crosstalk 00:30:23] mess every single day, so you just don't want to have that many offers. But anyways, I would say you know, you can give people incentive when you start working with. You can say like, "Hey, I'm going to pay you this much for the first three months and if it works out, if I determine that you're a good fit for the position, I'll increase your wage," or I know that our business coach after I think three months she'll turn them into an employee from a contractor, which gives them like benefits and whatever.
Kendra Perry: Obviously, it's going to be different depending on where you run your business. Like in Canada, for me as a corporation, it doesn't make sense for me to have employees, so that's not going to be something that I offer. I stick with contractors. But maybe somewhere in the States or other countries, maybe it's more a benefit to you to have employees versus contractors. But try to make there some sort of incentive for people to really try, you know. It's like, "Okay, I'm going to start paying you 15 bucks an hour, but if after three months it's going really well, I'll pay you 20," so they're like, "Okay." You know, I think it's a good incentive.
Christine: And plus, the more time you have, the more your business is going to get better. Like the more time you have to actually make money and your assistant would see it, you would see it, and then it's just obvious that pay is going to rise and my goal and in the end is to have Tamara be a part of the business, actually. At some point, I want her to have, I don't know how I'm going to do it, with shares or I don't know. No clue on how to do it. But she's been so important to the development of the business that I really want her to be a part of it, you know? So yeah, I'm thinking. But I think that's what works. Like it needs to be their baby just as much as it is yours and tell them how you appreciate them. Like she's got so many emails where I'm like, "Oh my god, I love you," because I really do. She's genius. I love her so much. And you need to tell them that too. I think it's just an honest thing and if you're pissed off, you tell them too.
Kendra Perry: Yup Yeah, I think a really good topic for us to do episode on would be leadership, right, because I think leadership skills are something that we don't necessarily come into this world having and as people who maybe never, you know, had this dream to start a business, maybe it just happened I think, which is what happens with a lot of health coaches. They just are like, "I want to learn to help myself and help my family," and then they end up taking on clients and don't even realize that they've just started a business. So I think, you know, leadership is a really interesting topic and I think if you can be a good leader, you can have a good team. I'm someone who's had a lot of jobs and I've seen a lot of bad leaders and I see what bad leadership, how negatively it can damage a business. So that might be something we talk about in the future.
Christine: Yeah, leadership and boundaries. Those both go together, I believe.
Kendra Perry: Oh yes, yes, yes.
Christine: All right.
Kendra Perry: What else do we have to talk about today?
Christine: Well, we've been talking for nearly an hour.
Kendra Perry: Have we? Oh my gosh.
Kendra Perry: We're good at that.
Christine: We're very good at that. But it's a good topic. I mean, hire rather earlier than too late.
Kendra Perry: Mm-hmm (affirmative),
Christine: Don't downsize yourself. Don't think, "I'm not ready yet." No. If you're overwhelmed, if you do things that you shouldn't be doing and you're tired, hire someone. Please, please, please.
Kendra Perry: Yeah, and it's better to hire earlier because if you hire when you're frantic, you're like, "Oh my god, I'm so overwhelmed. Like I'm dropping all the balls, I need to bring someone in," then you might make a bad decision, which is what happened to me. I did this twice. You know, I brought people in when I was in desperation mode and when really I should've been doing these things a lot earlier and as a result, I ended up training people for like four months because once I got rid of the agency I brought on two new assistants who were fantastic, but I was literally in training mode. It was like the most stressful four months in business that I've had in five years.
Christine: Oh yeah, I can testify to that.
Kendra Perry: Yeah, I was like, "Aah! Christine, what do I do?"
Christine: I can relate just to some extent but not really because I'm like just sailing [inaudible 00:34:14]. But let us know if you're looking for an assistant and if you want some tips or some references from us.
Kendra Perry: Yeah, you can always send us an email, email@example.com, or shoot us a DM on Instagram.
Christine: Yes. I love Instagram.
Kendra Perry: That's where we like to hang out. We love Instagram.
Christine: We do. Go in and check out our story. We have one right now. We have one always. We have stories, but check us out.
Kendra Perry: We're pretty good with stories.
Christine: We're very good with stories.
Kendra Perry: Yeah.
Kendra Perry: Another thing regards to Instagram, if you liked this episode, what we love to know is what you've learned from it. So screenshot this episode, share it to your stories. Make sure to mention 360 Health Biz Podcast and tell us what your biggest take homes were because that helps us know that you like our content and that you like us, and then we'll share it to our stories.
Christine: We will and we absolutely adore all of you. Please give us feedback and yeah, I think that's it for today. And then we'll talk to you in two weeks.
Kendra Perry: Sounds good.
Christine: All right. Oh, it's me recording that one. Okay. So we'll see you in two weeks and leave us a review. We love you a lot. Bye.
Kendra Perry: Bye, guys.