Tools mentioned in this episode:
HARO Providing journalists with a robust database of sources for upcoming stories and daily opportunities for sources to secure valuable media coverage.
SourceBottle A free online service that connects journalists with sources.
Selena Soo's Impacting Millions Program to teach you how to connect with the media and land high-exposure opportunities. Learn how to get featured, published, and interviewed in blogs, podcasts, magazines, and even national TV shows.
Kendra: Hello. Hello everyone. Welcome to another awesome episode of the 360healthbiz Podcast. I am your co-host Kendra Perry, and I am with my other co-hosts, Christine Hansen, who's looking lovely and beautiful. As always!
Christine: Love that intro. It's like...
Kendra: I know, every time I just got to flatter you a little bit. So today we're going to be talking about a really awesome topic, and I'm probably gonna learn a ton today because this is definitely Christine's thing. Christine has been featured on TV and in all kinds of media outlets, and that's what we're going to be talking about today. We're gonna be talking about how you too can get on TV or featured in other media outlets which can help you grow your health coaching business. So we're going to dive deep into this topic today, but before we get started, we are going to quickly discuss, a tool that is actually very, very related to this topic. And the tool is called HARO. And I'm going to let Christine tell you a little bit about this, because she knows way more about it than I do.
Christine: Yeah. So HARO was pretty unknown three years ago. It's picked up quite a bit of traction since then, but it's called, 'Help A Reporter Out.' So H-A-R-O, Help A Reporter Out. And what it is, is basically it's a platform that you can sign up for free and you have reporters asking for experts three times a day in their different topics, and these reporters are not just like your neighborhood blog, like you have the, literally you have The Independent, Readers Digest, [inaudible] magazine, even the New York Times I think I've seen once or twice, Shape Magazine and so forth. So you really have like the whole hearst kind of thing on there, everyday health, like major major outlets. And what you do is you basically go through the sections to take a look at what could be for you. So for me sleep is pretty much on there at least twice a week, and then you pitch. So we're going to talk about that a little bit in detail later. But, it is a fantastic tool. It has helped me a lot to get my first visibility kind of steps, and it's free. So check it out. I think it's, it's amazing. An equivalent would be SourceBottle. I'm actually registered with SourceBottle Australia for some weird reason.
Christine: SourceBottle. Like a 'Source' and then 'Bottle.'
Christine: And a, or 'source bottle'...
Kendra: Thank you
Christine: And, yeah, I like it because they have international pitches. It's and it's a smaller pool basically than the HARO one, which is for all of the US and so forth. So that's an insider tip.
Kendra: That's awesome. And it's funny because you actually told me about HARO and I've been subscribed to it for like a year. I have yet to use it, but I'm, it comes to me like three times a day and I'm always looking at it and one day I'm actually going to go through and pitch something, and hopefully today you've been helped me a little bit, and teach me a little bit how I should be pitching these people. But before we get started I just, I'd love to know how you started getting featured, because I know you've been on TV a few times. I think just the other day you were flown to Paris for something, so you're kind of a celebrity, so why don't you tell us a little bit how you got into this and how you started doing this sort of thing?
Christine: Yeah, so I think the very first time I was featured it was actually before I started my company. So there was a good coach at the time. He told me to do a launch, like an on location launch. So at the time I was 'sleep like a baby,' where I was a baby sleep consultant. And so what I did is I basically did a launch at a cafe. I send out a press release to people, to the media, and I also put it online at events.org online. And I had three reporters show up. So that was like right from the get go. I had some media coverage there. And it was an interesting topic. So I really had lots of people, not lots of people, with 'sleep like a baby,' which I ran for a year, I probably had five, six media features I would say, and somewhere local because through the launch they knew that I existed and then even if they didn't talk about the launch, they came and asked me for an article, an interview, a little bit later on. And I was very active on social media as well, and Luxembourg is smaller of course.
But start locally, I mean locally it's still coverage. It's good practice, especially at the beginning. And then when I shifted my business I knew that it would take me time to get clients, but I wanted to be more high end right from the gate. So I knew that the media would be a very quick way to get credentials, and I signed up for 'Selena Soo's Impacting Millions.' And through that course I learned where to look for media exposure. So HARO was a big one, and it took me around three months. So during three months I pitched a lot. So every other day I would write a little pitch. I would pitch podcasts, I would go through the group, the group had its insider network as well, so I leveraged that. And I did everything from smart, tiny, teeny tiny podcast to entrepreneur on fire, so it was really from everything. But within those three months I was featured in Bride's Magazine, Reader's digest, Huffington Post, and at the time, Huffington Post still took contributes, so I became a contributor there, Elite daily. So those were quite big ones. And then also, I just got a magazine and I would look in the back of the magazine and see who the editor was and I would literally just write an email to the editor and ask if I could contribute. So that's how I got published in a Belgium magazine, a print magazine, pretty high end and that's, you know, I just went for it. Like I went crazy over those three months, I pitched pretty much everywhere.
Christine: So that happened pretty quickly. And then after those three months, because I had a lot of backlinks, my site rank pretty high, and when journalists and so forth would Google, sleep expert adults, I think my site is number one or two. And because I already had those media credentials, they would trust that I was a good source, and then they would come to me. So that's how I got the other kind of media credentials. And just last week, as kind of said, last week I was in New York Post on Monday, I was in the Independent on Friday, was interviewed by a Luxembourgish national TV also on Friday, and then on Saturday I was brought into Paris to be on a French TV station.
Christine: So now everything is just happening organically. What helped me a lot though, first of all is to know how to pitch and I'm going to tell you exactly how I do that, but I do have a collaboration with a mattress company. So I'm a freelance expert for them and they have an amazing PR team, like huge. And their PR team is actually working with another PR company that is one of the biggest worldwide, who are representing the William sister in tennis, UNICEF and so forth. So their reach is amazing. So as their sleep expert, I managed to piggyback on that because, when they have a campaign, they use me in that quotes, I go over their reports, I consult on them, and if a reporter has a question, they basically link him to me. So I talked to the press, and that is fantastic because I get the visibility, they have their expert, but I don't have to do anything. So it's thanks to them that I got the TV appearance in Paris for example. So these things happen, once you get to your credibility markers, the more you get the better.
And I find obviously you need to know what you're doing. Obviously you need to have knowledge, you need to be interesting, hard working, but then it's pretty quick. Right? So the way that your pitch is, it's different. It depends from different outlets. So some outlets will want to have the complete story. Something like mindbodygreenfor example, they want to have the complete story with images, and it doesn't mean that you get published. Like I think I pitched three times, never got published, and then a friend of mine asked me for a quote, so I did that, and there we go. But I never actually had an article published their, an article of mine, and I was just like, after three times I was just like, 'God, I can't be bothered.' And I don't need it.
Kendra: [inaudible] you have to work to have to write everything upfront [inaudible]
Christine: Yeah. You can repurpose it, but I was just like, 'ah.'
Kendra: Yeah. And what about the types of like media outlets that people can be pitching? So obviously like there's like local TV, there's local radio, there's websites like mindbodygreen and like Reader's digest...
Christine: So pretty much everything, pretty much everything, you can always pitch. Sometimes if you go to the site, and go and do your research, and very often you can go and google the site contributor or the site and pitch. They will tell you if they're open to it. Something like Forbes or Entrepreneur, they won't or Inc Magazine, because they have their contributors. Now to become a contributor, you either have to be invited or to be referenced or you can actually talk to a contributor of theirs and see if you can pitch them. So you wouldn't pitch the main mother ship, so to say, but you would pitch contributors. That's how I got into Forbes, for example.
Christine: Now, if you can pitch, read their guidelines, if they just want some ideas than just give them some ideas, and the way that you do that is you literally, everything has to be above the fold. What that means is that, when they click on your email in their inbox, every, the most important stuff needs to be visible straightaway. They cannot scroll down. If they have to scroll down, it's, you lost, so get to the point. They don't have a lot of time. Basically you say, 'Hi.'Sometimes you can do a little, throw a little compliment in there. Say, you know, 'I've seen your story on da da da... I thought it was amazing. I am...'your pitch line, throw something impressive in there, and then, 'here are some ideas that I think your audience would relate to you.'So do your research and look at what their audience basically needs, right. So it is different from outlet to [inaudible]. Also look at the voice that they use, are they casual, are they very more academic. Depends, you know, really take a look at that. And then in general, I usually pitch three to five ideas with bullets. One, two, three, four, five. And then I add my author bio, biography, biography, but I add that at the bottom, you know, or I say, 'I have been featured in...'the main outlets that I've been featured in and, and then I just tell, 'I'm looking forward to hearing from you. Let me know if you need anything different or if there's anything different that you're looking for, just let me know, I'm flexible.'Because that way you leave the door open for them to communicate. So it needs to be to the point, it needs to be super sharp, and never, ever, ever add a word document. They will shoot you. It's taking up time. It slows down their mailbox, so don't do that. Don't, don't do that. Everything needs to be in that email. Very concise and very precise.
Kendra: I love what you said there about like they, they, they shouldn't have to scroll, because it's kind of similar for like an opt-in page, right?
Christine: Yes, exactly.
Kendra: Like if you're sending people to [inaudible] lead magnet, like you need that opt-in and the main things that are going to make someone want to subscribe to your email list and get that freebie.
Christine: Yes, yeah.
Kendra: And it's like you don't want them to have to scroll. So it's kind of like a similar thing. Like it should be to the point, upfront, and the other thing you said there that I love was like, you need to make it about them, right?
Kendra: Like you don't want to talk about you.
Kendra: You want to see like say hey, like this is how I can help you out. This is how I can appeal to your audience.
Kendra: Your audience may love this, and obviously do your research. So [inaudible].
Christine: Yes, because you want to make their lives easier and sometimes it's speed. How I found that it speed, the quicker you are, the better. So sometimes I would just get the email, I would pitch straight away, I wouldn't think about it. If you have someone who's super prepared, then get going do a word document or Google doc where you have 20 topics or so, from different categories that you could find interesting so that you can just copy, paste those very quickly, here on my ideas, Bam, and send it off. Sometimes I wouldn't even write. Sometimes I would literally do a voice memo and send them a voice memo. So.
Christine: And sometimes you know, when you give me an answer, can you give me some ideas? I would say, 'Hey, I'm just doing a voice memo for you,'and that works. And that's how I worked with a lot of reporters actually, because they are on a tight deadline, I can't be bothered to write. So very often when I have someone now pitching me, I would say, is it okay if I just do a voice memo for you? And there like, 'Yeah sure,'because they don't mind, you know.
Kendra: Right, it's quick.
Christine: So it's easier for them because they can actually edit it the way that they want to. It's easier. They hear it once, then they would write it down. It's easier than if they have to go through text and edit it. So I wouldn't do it maybe for the first time, but once you've got a couple under your belt, that's the quickest way to do it and they actually like it.
Christine: So that's another tip.
Kendra: And what about, what should people have in place maybe before they're pitching? Like do they need. They obviously need to have figured out like their niche. They need to kind of maybe have established themselves as an authority or an expert in their niche. [inaudible]
Christine: You don't have to. Like I literally had a really crappy website at the time, I hadn't had, had probably one client and then I got, one client was actually my second or first client was actually a journalist that I had collaborated with.
Kendra: Oh wow, awesome.
Christine: Because she wanted to be a case study so I was like, I can offer you a special discount, and you can write about and now you can have, you see a whole article about me in Refinery 29 where we worked together. That was fair at the very, very beginning, which is a little bit annoying because now I would work completely different, but it's still, I'm grateful. But you don't need anything.
Kendra: Ok, that's good to know.
Christine: Like I don't need anything. I didn't have anything under my belt and you know, if you have someone who's like a little bit wary of that, then it's going to be fine at a later date. Don't take it personal. But as I said, like Entrepreneur on Fire, I was there really early, like very, very, very early in my career. So now I would do things differently. I'm actually thinking of writing another email to John Lee Dumas and say, 'Look, can we do a 2.0, it's going to be better this time.'So, but you don't need anything.
Christine: Like you truly really need balls, I mean just need to go for it.
Kendra: And so do you think like as someone who maybe is in the earlier stages of their business, like do you think this is a good strategy or a good thing to put your energy behind in terms of like generating more income and getting more clients and getting to the bottom line?
Christine: Yeah. For sure. Absolutely. It is incredibly, it's an incredibly, how should I say? Credibility Marker. It's not a lot of work. Like having to hustle to get clients is a lot of work and you would still be doing that. Like it's not going to take that much time actually, but anyone who wants to work with you is going to check out your website and if you have those logos on there, it just immediately establishes you as an authority. You will be able to raise your prices accordingly. You'll have an edge on all the others and I think it's a brilliant investment of time. it's giving you a lot more practice as well because you know, you will want to be an expert at some time. I mean not everyone wants to. But I think most of our listeners are probably like, we are so ambitious and we really want to get to the top and I consider myself being there now, but the media is huge for me and, it's, it's part of my strategy, what I wanted to do. If you're obviously super mortified of being visible than it might not be your kind of thing. Which is fine, you would do it differently. But for me, I was going to be international online, so the media is helping me a lot with that. But if you want to be more local than you probably won't need to do that. I think it depends on what you want. But if you want to have the big international career, it's, I think it's non-negotiable. I think you really have to do it.
Kendra: Well, I feel like there's so many levels that you can do this at. Like, you know, when I first started out, I started my business by running local workshops. I live in a really small town, but I knew that that was probably the quickest and easiest way to get clients. And I would go to, every time I had a workshop, I'd set up an interview with the local radio, and they go in and they interview me on that topic that was really, you know, minor local. I live in a town of 10,000, but like that help get more people into my workshops and the people would be like I listened to you on the radio.
Kendra: You know, like local radios are always looking for content, and they were happy to have me on. And then everyone else thought, 'oh wow, I can't believe the radio have you on.'But really it was not,
Christine: I know.
Kendra: Looked like it was.
Christine: Exactly. And that's a little tip to, local media in the summer is like so easy. They have nothing to report about. You know, politics is, everyone is on holiday, there's nothing happening. So if you want to get some media coverage, especially local TV or radio, summer time is amazing. And it doesn't matter how many people see you in the end, you know, if you just want the credibility marker, because not every media visibility is going to get your client's at all. Like I had huge outlets feature me and I wouldn't get a client from that. So that's not how it works. Yes, you can have the opt-in in there sometimes, but I find that it's more people who check you out and then they're like, whoa. Impressed. Rather than people finding you through an article, you know, most of the time, not always. Sometimes...
Kendra: And I wonder, I wonder if that gives you more credibility because I know like, people don't care as much about the education anymore. Like they don't go, 'I've gone to this school, this school, this school,'people like, 'I've been featured in this, this, this and this.'And I love that. Like as featured in little thing on your website. I have it on my website too, like all the little things, and I have not been featured in a lot of things, like a little bit here and there. But every small thing I've been featured in, even if it was tiny, I put it in that little image, right?
Christine: Yeah. Mine don't fit on there anymore. Like I literally have a separate media page. I find, yeah, it's not like you have to have a medicine degree from Harvard anymore. Like, people want to know that you know your shit basically, right? And when you have been picked up by journalists to be their experts, it does give you a certain authority I would say. So I feel very at ease with it. I think everyone has to choose for themselves, but I would definitely recommend it. It's definitely my jam. I love it. I love being on TV. It's my thing. I love speaking. I love, you know, that's what I'm going to build my career on next year. But it depends obviously, but you can just do it in writing too. I think it's, it's pretty fantastic way of getting to a different level.
Kendra: Yeah. And there's like, there's the, there's like you can get on articles, online articles, there's the TV, there's podcasts, right? Like pitching to podcasts, like this is a similar thing, right? Like podcasts are a really great way to find a new audience that would not have otherwise have found you. Right?
Christine: I love podcasts, and podcasts are a different animals because people who subscribe to podcasts, are fans, like they're really fans, it's much more intense than a book, blog, or newspaper. So pitches to blogs, to podcast, should be a little bit more in depth than they are for written press, for example. Podcasters who lead the own pitches. They love to be flattered. So listen to a couple of episodes that they had in the past and quote from that or say I loved your episode with Xyz, you know, that really resonated with me or, and I've done this to all of them, right? I take the two, three, I literally skipped to the middle and take stuff out. It's like in school, you know, and you didn't read the book and then there's the part where you read and you're like, ha [inaudible]. Not that I ever did that, obviously, but...
Kendra: Of course not.
Christine: Yeah. So flattery is always great. Know what they talk about really, know their structure. They are so different, like some are super, super structured, so are just go with the flow, which I prefer.
Kendra: We're kind of more go with the flow.
Christine: Yeah, definitely. I get really nervous if there's a structure in there, and sometimes I don't prepare enough, but sometimes questions just catch me like the last podcast I was on, they ask what is the best, what was the best day of your life? You're not allowed to say the day your child was born or when you were married. And I was like, 'fuck,'no idea. I was like, 'Shit, Shit. I don't know.'I couldn't get up. I really couldn't find anything. He was like, 'well I can help you. It might be today.'And I was like, 'ah,'very close call. So keep that. When somebody else you that question to say today.
Kendra: That's a good. That's good. And you know what I love about podcast too is like they kind of evergreen, right? Like people listen to the podcast.
Christine: Yes... [inaudible]
Kendra: [inaudible] when I subscribe to a new podcast I go back to the beginning, and I started at the beginning and work my way up.
Christine: Exactly. And they will find you years later, make sure that your opt-in page is branded to them. So when I was on 'being boss,' my update was sleeplikeaboss/beingboss. My opt-in has changed since then. Right. So it's completely different when people go there now from what it used to be, but make sure that links stays.
Christine: I actually forgot to do one for Entrepreneur on Fire, but pretty much every guest does one website forward slash fire. So I did that and I still get opt-ins from that years later, years later, two years later. Right. But the funnel never stops. Just make sure that you do a personalized link. Ideally you should do the personalized page. So say, 'hi listeners from podcast ABC or podcast XYZ,'whatever it is. I don't always do it, it's just I should, I could tell my assistant now to do it actually.
Kendra: You do that.
Christine: But yeah, but podcasts are amazing. People hear you, they trust you a lot quicker. And also videos with experts, do it. Even if it's tiny.
Christine: Like for me doing one free video and getting one client that pays like a lot.
Kendra: Yeah, it's, it's huge. And I love, I love this. And so let's just, let's just summarize like the sort of like pitching format, in that evening just so we make sure that everyone's got it. So you want to, [inaudible]
Christine: [inaudible] Yeah. So you start with the name of the person, spell it correctly, figuring out if it's a he or she. There's nothing that pisses me off more when I have people pitching me to be on my blog or something where all my podcast when it's like, dear Mr. Christine or Dear Mr. Hanson, right? Just like fuck off. Sorry. [inaudible] I'm like, fuck off.
Kendra: You're just on fire today. Let's just drop an F bombs and S bombs.
Christine: It's driving me crazy. So make sure you do research to know that. So, greeting, then do your one elevator pitch line and just tell them I think I have Xyz for your audience. That would be really helpful for your audience. If it's podcast include flattery. If it's not a podcast, don't include flattery.
Kendra: Just get to the point.
Christine: And then depending on what the format is, go with clear bullet points. Have catchy headlines. You need to work on that. That takes time. So really catchy headlines. Usually with a how to, three things, you will find tons of that if you google. Have three to five bullet points, sometimes they will tell you how many they want and then tell them that you're open to changes. 'If you need anything else, let me know.'Sign off, and then after your signature, your bio, your author bio, they usually won't include it but still do it. And then if you want to you can also just before sign off say, 'Also I've been featured in da da da. Here are two articles of mine,'that they can click on, so that they can see that you're legit.
Christine: So that would be the line out that I would use, except if they ask for the complete article in advance, then obviously you would do that. But I don't know many who do that. I really literally, I think it's only mindbodygreen so far that I've encountered that once the whole story or the others just want some ideas. Okay. And so if you're, if, if somebody is new and they haven't been featured anywhere, would they just maybe send to...
Christine: Don't say anything.
Christine: Don't say anything.
Christine: No, don't do anything. Don't, just don't mention it.
Kendra: Okay, cool. And I would love to know, like, like what do you think is the biggest mistake people make when pitching? Like what's the big no, no, that you should never do that people do all the time.
Christine: Super easy. Too Long. Your email is too long.
Kendra: Too long.
Christine: Don't go like, 'hi, at my work La La La La La. I work with Blah Blah Blah. I have helped... I've been educated Dah Dah Dah Dah Dah. It is my passion to neh neh neh neh neh, I've read Wirey, I really think that I could have because da da da.'So you have like three paragraphs and then the ideas aren't clearly laid out. Nobody's going to read it. Like literally no one’s going to read it. So it needs to be short, to point, above the fold.
Kendra: Cool. Above the fold. To the point. Not too long. Don't go on and on. Okay, got it.
Kendra: And what advice would you give to someone who really wants to be featured on TV say, but they're just really nervous about it? Like how, like what advice would you give to them?
Christine: I would tell them to practice on Facebook lives first,
Kendra: Yeah. [inaudible]
Christine: Like trying to do your own Facebook lives. Try to get into groups of other people. There's lots of collaborations in the online world right now where people have each other on guests. Try to be an online summits, that is very similar to actually being interviewed on TV.
Christine: And then when you're ready, then just have a go and go to a small station first. Like I'm a local, small independent channels. You actually also have some TV channels online that are only online. Go with that first so that you know what is, you know, waiting for you and TV is fast, like you're in the in and out.
Christine: It's so quick. It's like super dizzylusionary, unless you are with Alan where you get like half an hour air time, but working on it. It's just like, Blam, it's very quick.
Kendra: Yeah. You have a very short amount of time to get to your point, hey?
Christine: Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Kendra: Cool. Awesome. Anything else you want to tell our listeners about media and getting featured?
Christine: If you can collaborate with a team, with a company that has great PR team, do it. Like, I think that has been something that's was very surprising to me. I love the company obviously because I also love them, the people that work there and they're really dear to me, because we had an event where I was five days staying at a hotel with them during a campaign, so I really got to know them. They're adorable. So make sure that it fits, that it's a good match and because we get along so well, they asked me over and over again and yes, I do have to sign an exclusivity contract with them for certain amount of time. So be aware of that. Whether it's worth it for me, I know that with them it's worth it, and it's always like six months or just as long as the campaign is going on.
Christine: But yeah, I find if you can collaborate with a brand like that, especially if they are having campaigns, and you show a little bit of initiative, it's a win. It's like they will help you, they will do the work for you in a way, and then you can help them and get the exposure. So it's, it's fantastic. Like that was what I underestimated by far. So it's was a beautiful surprise. And you get paid. Don't forget, you don't get paid for the rest of that, like nothing pays. So. But for that you get paid.
Kendra: And you know, I actually think you got me featured in, was it Forbes or the Guardian? Like you had one article where you had a bunch of different experts put in their two cents.
Christine: Oh yeah. In Huffington Post.
Kendra: Huffington Post. I was like awesome. And then I don't think they accept contributors anymore. So now that's on my featured in page, because I, I was in there.
Christine: You were in there. Our Podcast is in Forbes dude.
Kendra: Oh awesome. I had no idea.
Christine: I know we have to put it on our website actually. I just thought [inaudible]
Kendra: We got to get on top of that.
Christine: 360healthbiz podcast is in Forbes magazine with a link, which is pretty cool.
Kendra: That is pretty cool. Oh my God. That's so exciting. I love it. Okay. So guys, if you liked this episode, leave us a five-star review on iTunes or wherever you can leave us a review because we need to know like do you like this? Is this episode sweet? Are you into it? Do you want us to do more episodes like this? We need to hear from you and just helping us if you know, spread our message, help more health coaches, grow their business, transform their clients, it means we're going to help more people. Very important. And so in order for us to get out there, you need to let iTunes know that you like us.
Christine: Yeah. Thank you so much guys. Let me know if you have any questions. You can obviously always email me through the contact page if you want to have any other information like I'd love to share.
Kendra: Awesome. Well thanks Christine. Thank you for sharing your wisdom. I have been taking notes. I learned a lot and maybe in the next couple of weeks I'm actually going to pitch something from HARO. Those emails that have been coming to me for like over a year that I haven't used it yet.
Christine: Yes. I'm ignoring them at the moment, but I will get back into it when I have time.
Kendra: Yeah, great tool. All right, thanks Christine. Thanks everyone.
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Christine: Hey everyone, welcome to the 360healthbiz podcast. We're so excited to have you. This is Kendra Perry and myself, Christine.
Christine: And we're super excited to have you for this episode, we're going to talk about launches and Kendra just had a [inaudible] launch so she's going to basically have some [inaudible] talk. I don't know. She's going to spill all the secrets to you, but before we do, don't forget that if you're like our content than do support us on Patreon. You can just go to our website and you find a big red button where you can do that. And to kick off this episode, we're going to talk about the tool of the week and today we're going to talk about Voxer. So Voxer is an app that you can download and it's like a walkie talkie app, so it's designed to mainly leave voice memos instead of texting, basically. You can still text, you can send images, you can send gifts, you can send files, but it has this big walkie talkie button in the middle and it's just faster communication. I really like thinking and speaking. It's great when you have a VA just to shoot them a message, you don't have to do, forward an email or anything like that. Kendra and I use it a lot and it's just really quick. I really like it. It's free. So even with coaching clients to have just a quick check-up, I think it's, it's really, really great tool. So we highly recommend that to use in your business or you know, either with your clients or with your team and I think that's it, right?
Kendra: Yeah. And just if you guys like our stuff and you want more of it, just leave us a five star review on iTunes or wherever.
Kendra: Listen to your podcast because you don't leave us a review, we have no idea if you actually like what we're doing. So you got to tell us, tell us that you like us,
Christine: We don't know if you're listening, dudes, dudets, let us know. We need some love.
Kendra: We do need some love.
Christine: So yeah. So we're going to do dive into Kendra's launch. Before we do like a case study of her launch, we're actually gonna talk a little bit about what a launch is, why you should do it, when you should do it, when you shouldn't do it, and the different pieces that belong to it. So, definition of launch would basically be that you have a certain timeline to the release of a product, maybe coarse or group program. And then you basically create some hype. You create some energy around it and then you launch it. So basically you open your sales cart for a certain amount of time and then you close it. So it's something that's not necessarily available all year long, but we can talk about evergreen launches as well. But we're going to just talk about the general concept for now. So let's talk a little bit about what kind of programs are especially well for launches. And then we're going to walk you through ideas of how you can do so. So Kendra, you mainly launching programs, right? No, yeah.
Kendra: I just launched a membership, but you can launch like as health professionals, like maybe you're going to launch a group program, maybe you're going to launch like some one on one program, private coaching thing that you put together. I just launched a membership, but you can also launch physical products like maybe you have some sort of physical product that is kind of wrapped up in your business. But basically, yeah, just like what you just said, Christine, you are basically releasing something to your people, to either your warm or cold audience, hoping that they're going to buy it and it's obviously important to do this because it doesn't really work to just like put something out there on your website and hope that people will buy or find it.
Christine: No that's not going to happen.
Kendra: Get an odd sale. But unless you have a really massive following, you kind of have to go through this whole like procedure like pre-launch, launch, and post-launch. And actually put some effort into it. Otherwise people probably aren't going to buy it. People need a little bit of a pressure to buy it.
Christine: Yep, I agree. And you can do a launch like once a year, once a month, once, I dunno, once a quarter and you can do evergreen launches. So I find most people launch courses or group programs. So like every three months or so they wouldn't launch a new program. And so let's go a little bit through the funnel and I think you already talked a little bit about that. You cannot just say, okay, tomorrow I'm going to launch. Like you need to make full aware of who you are. You need to have a strategy in place of how you make people aware and then slowly ease them into the idea that they need this product.
Christine: And we really call that seeding. So you really plant and seed in their head, and then when you start launching, when you become obvious and like, 'Oh, I needed that anyway.' So that's the ideal psychology, so it's psychology behind this. So to give you some examples, of courses, I have a 'sleep like a boss' master class course for example, but it could also be a course on hormones, course on heavy metals, it could be a course on dieting, it could be a membership site like Kendra says where you can update things monthly. So in the health sector, I think that those are like very things that you very often see. Meal plans, all kinds of stuff.
Kendra: Yeah. We can go way back, I want to go, like, what do you do before you even create a product, because...
Christine: Oh yeah, go ahead.
Kendra: You know, like there's no point in creating something if people don't want it. So you really got to know your people, and I think this is the biggest reason why I had, I was able to generate quite a bit of like gross income in a pretty short amount of time because I actually asked people what they wanted. So I had this idea in my head, I was like, 'Okay, I need to work with less one on one clients. I need to, I want to make a group program, but I know that people want labs from me, like I'm a functional nutritionist, like they want to run labs, so how do I put this into a group program?' And I was like, I don't know if people would actually be into this, if they would be interested in running labs and getting a protocol but not getting the one on one support. So I put out a survey and I bribed people with a contest. Like I gave away a free hair mineral analysis and consult, because you got to bribe people. People don't like no one even wants it to be two minutes out of their day to do something unless there's something in it for them.
Kendra: You got to bribe them. I recommend doing a contest. That's typically what I do when I survey people. But I asked them, I was like, 'Hey, like this is what I'm thinking of doing. Would you be into this?' And originally I thought I would be doing like a fixed group program, like something that goes for like three to six months. They get like a set number of things and it has a start and an end day and it's like a, you know, a bit of a higher ticket group program item. But what I learned from the survey, well first of all I learned that everyone wanted to, like everyone was into the group program idea, but what I learned is that people wanted to pay a lower price point and pay monthly. So that's where the membership idea was, was basically birthed from. Because I was like, 'Oh, like people would be more into paying a lower price and just paying month by month,' and it kind of made a bit more sense to me in a way because, you know, with health and running labs with people and with people who have a lot of health issues, like you can't really put a fixed amount of time on when they're going to get results, right? For some people it's going to take years. Other people it might take a few months. So, I think it's really important like before you spend all this time and money creating something, like, you need to ask your people like, do they actually want it, and if you don't have a following yet, I think you got to do some market research, right? You got to look at...
Kendra: Other people who are in similar niches. You, what are they doing, you know, and, and try to come up with like, you know, is this something that people are actually going to want to buy from you?
Christine: Absolutely. And the way you can do the research is either you asked, like if you have an idea, you just ask about that idea. Otherwise you could also go. And what I like to do is to go on Amazon, and to take a look at books that exist and you take a look at all the books and then you look at what is missing. So a great way of doing that is actually to read the reviews of the book and the negative ones. So where the people are complaining about what is missing, that's golden because it tells you exactly the kind of fodder that you need to feed people. Right? So that's a good one that you can do, stalking questions on the topic. Go to Reddit. Reddit is super weird, but it does a lot of communication there. So if you find the right thread, it's absolutely golden. Quora is great to look at questions that people asked, really to see what is popular, what is the need, what is asked again and again and again. And sometimes it doesn't even need to be a completely new product. It can actually be something that already exists, but you just put your twist to it. You just refine it. You can add something that makes it a little bit more special or it's just the way that you deliver it, you know? So there's different ways that you can do this, but that research would be, first of all, your own tribe. So your Facebook following, your email list, and then go for Amazon, go for Reddit, Cora, Google as such, you know, and then that will help you to actually define what you need to do and how to create it. And I know people who launch their courses or their membership sites and they're not, they don't have anything on there yet. Right? But they only have thing already. They launch it, they pre-sell it for a special rate and then you know, you know that you're golden. If nobody responds, then if they don't even respond to that, they're not going to buy.
Kendra: Yep, then you have wasted time.
Christine: They're not going to buy it. And we're going to talk Price Point's a little bit later as well. But yeah, doing your research. Actually creating something that is needed is definitely step one.
Kendra: Definitely step one. Yeah, and I mean, I love what you said about preselling sense exactly what I did. I had part of it built, but I did most of the building when the cart opened and when the cart closed. I had a 10 day cart open period and then there was about five days and then the doors opened and people got let in.
Kendra: And then, so yeah, I felt like I got paid to make it.
Christine: Exactly, and the survey is already kind of part of your pre-launch. So it's really kind of warming people up to the idea, and then you can use different strategies. I know that a lot of people use video, and the way I know that Bushra Azhar is having a great course called 'Sold Out Launch' where she breaks this down, but basically it's about first getting people to know you personally as well. You know, doing videos about you, posting pictures that don't just show you as the expert, but that show you as a human being first so that people start to like you. Then you can show your expertise in the second step. Then you can show how you connect to the topic that you're going to sell. And each of those is around a week, two weeks. And you can use social media posts, you can use quotes, you can use videos, you can use voice memos, you can use blocks, whatever you want to do, but it should be a certain amount of time, you know. You can pull it off in two weeks, but they need to already have a following. If you need to build your following, obviously I would find one to two months maybe even. And just run video like crazy, run video ads like crazy, right?
Kendra: Build up that following.
Christine: Yeah. Yeah. So kind of on what exactly did you do? So we have a little bit of an inside.
Kendra: So after I realized that people wanted it, I was like super stoked obviously because, I was like, yes, this is great. And then I just started to build up hype about it. I started to kind of tease about it. I, you know, I told people like, 'Hey, you told me that you wanted this, so I'm going to be creating this and I'm really excited about it.' And I shared that all over my social media, my Instagram, my Instagram Stories, my Facebook. I've let people know in email. I kept telling them like in every email I sent out, like I'd have a ps. 'Ps: This is coming. I'm really excited about it. I'm building it right now. Stay tuned. This is probably when it's gonna happen,' and I just kept kind of throwing it in there, and it was really cool, because I had a lot of people be like, 'Hey, like I'm really excited for this or like I'm just hanging out waiting for this group program.' Like, you know, you getting excited about it. And I was like okay, this is a good thing. So I think it's important to, you know, and all my Instagram stories I would go through and show the membership I was building and show the sales page I was making [inaudible].
Christine: Yeah, making all is amazing. Like doing, making of photos, making of videos is kind of working really well.
Kendra: Yeah, that's sort of behind the scenes. Like I was kind of like letting people in and, and yeah, people were excited about it. So that was really good. And then, you know, before you kind of get to your launch, you know, you have to do a lot of planning in advance obviously like, and it's crazy like I've launched probably like five or six times and every time I launch I'm like, 'Oh yeah, like this is a lot of work.' Like I always...
Christine: It is.
Kendra: how many little things you forget about that you have to think about, but you know. Some questions you should ask yourself is like, you know, first of all, if you haven't, if you're doing a group program, a membership, like how are you going to host it? Right? Like where is that program going to live? I use ClickFunnels. There's lots of other, like if you're doing a membership site, I know there's Thinkific, there is Teachable.
Christine: Yeah, Teachable, Invanto is [inaudible].
Kendra: [inaudible] WordPress.
Christine: Yeah, if you get onto our free tool kit, we are actually talking about some of them in the free toolkit that you get on our website. So just go there and download it and we have all of them in there. But yeah, you can also just get a WordPress plugin, s2member is one Memberia is a very popular one. I've never worked with it, but yeah.
Kendra: What was the first one you said? There was Memberia and what was the other one you said?
Kendra: Okay. I'm just writing this all down so we can put it in the show notes. Yes. Yeah. So you think about like that sort of thing and then you've got to think about like what support are you gonna have, are you going to have support? Like are you going to have a Facebook group? And I recommend if you're going to do the community thing, do a Facebook group. Don't try to go with some other forum plugin. It's not the same. You will get engagement. It won't work. I've been in, I've worked for organizations where they've tried to do a non-Facebook plugin and it sucked. So, you know, Facebook is already there. People already have Facebook. It's on their phone. People are already on Facebook. If you want to develop a community and you want to have that sort of community support, then definitely go with Facebook. The other thing you need to think about is building your sales page. So you're going to need to build something to send people so that they can purchase. I also do this with ClickFunnels, but you can do Leadpages, you can do Ontraport, you can do all kinds of places basically to hold hostess sales page, but this is basically where you want to go through and you want to tell people about the program, tell people what it is and tell, tell them about the benefits and what they're actually going to get from being in the program. So you want to know how you're going to build your sales page.
You also want to know how you're going to collect payment. You know, are you going to do this through like I can connect ClickFunnels to Stripe. I also for this program because it was a membership and I wanted to give people the, be able to cancel their membership on their own. So I actually did it through MoonClerk, which allows people to sign up for subscriptions. It integrates with Stripe and then you can, people can cancel whenever they want. And you want to think about like what discounts are you going to offer during your open cart because, you know, especially with a new program launch, it's kind of, you want to think of it as a Beta launch, like it's kind of like a test launch. So what type of discounts are you actually going to? Hello, Christine?
Kendra: Christine's actually went offline for a second but she's back. You want to think about, you know, like what is the incentive to sign up during this open cart period. And I think offering some sort of discounts, discounts talk, money talks. So you know, for the first launch of a program you want to offer some sort of founding member discount or some sort of data discount to kind of encourage people to sign up because if they don't get in during that open cart, they're going to have to pay more or maybe it's not going to be an option for them.
Christine: Exactly. So you're talking discounts or bonuses.
Kendra: Yeah, discounts. I'm just talking about just the things to think about before you launch. So how you're going to host your program, how are you going to collect payment, building your sales page, you know, what discounts you're going to offer.
Kendra: I would recommend as, because we're health professionals, like you need a contract if you're, if it's a health program of course, develop a contract for the program and make the rules very clear. So for me...
Christine: [inaudible] people.
Kendra: Oh, totally. And you, you need to put those boundaries forward because if people don't know the boundaries, they're going to take you for everything you've got. So like, what's your refund policy? Like do you give refunds? You know, do you have like a 30 day refund policy? Do you not give refunds. [inaudible]
Christine: Yeah, and here's a tip. Here's a very quick tip about refunds. They work a lot better the longer you have the refund period. So if you have 100 day money back guarantee, you would will have less people who are going to take advantage of it than if you say 30 days. Because it's like if you get something and you know, you only have 30 days to get it, to bring it back, you would focus on everything that's negative. If it's longer time you would just relax, you will use the thing, because you say, 'Oh, I even have a year to give it back, you know, I don't worry.' So you will just get used to it and then you can't be bothered or something happened where you know it's your mistake and, you know, that, you know, the money back guarantee wouldn't be there. So I'm actually recommending to use a money back guarantee that's longer. You're going to have much less hassle than just a 14 or 30 day money back guarantee.
Kendra: That's good advice. I think in the past I used the 30 day money back, but that tends to [inaudible].
Christine: I think I'm only going to do a 100 or even a year from now on.
Kendra: Yeah. And I mean for, for what I did, because I was, you know, offering a low price membership. Like I just don't give refunds. You just cancel, you know, you know, I offered it for super, super cheap, like I'm sorry but I'm not giving you $35 back. Like you can just cancel.
Kendra: And, you know, you'll get access for the rest of the month. So I made that very clear and you should also make it clear about, like, you know, obviously all the legal stuff should be in there. Like, basically when people purchase, is send them directly to a contract and they sign the contract and then you know, from at that point they can get let in. So you want to think about these things all in advanced and really make sure to have that contract dialed in, because if it's not in the contract and somebody wants something, you kinda just have to give it to them, because if they haven't signed against it then you kind of just have to roll with what they're saying. So just, you know, be very clear in your contract.
Kendra: And then...
Christine: Sound advice.
Kendra: You want to determine your open cart period. Right. So I know like with your, you did a launch not too long ago, like how long did you have your cart open for Christine?
Christine: Well that's the thing. I did my launch but I didn't ever close the cart. So I didn't do, I just launched it to let people know that it's available. I never closed the cart. So it's an evergreen open one. I don't promote it anymore, it just lives on my website and I like strategically, I use it to motivate people actually to buy my higher ticket program.
Kendra: That's great.
Christine: So it's a product that's, you know, a thousand bucks. Whereas working with me is a lot more. So when I talk to people and then tell them my pricing, I always tell them, well you could also do the DIY, which is just a 1000 and then it's so much faster that they like, 'Oh no, it can't be worth anything.' And then they pick the high, higher ticket. So it's just psychology.
Kendra: So you use position.
Christine: Yeah. So that's just the psychology I use. But when I launched it, fascinating fact, I lunched it for $47 and I had trouble selling it. When I sold it for a $1000 it went off like hotcakes. So it's weird. It's really weird. Weird people are weird. But I had my pre-launch for around two weeks. I had a special early bird offer for 10 days I believe, and then I switched to regular pricing. So my launch. So my cart open for early bird was two weeks. And it was, the price will slower and it also had a bonus call with me for people who registered during that time.
Kendra: Ooh, I love that. Yeah, that's, that's good stuff. That's what we should talk about that because yeah, like I, I mean definitely like if you're doing a launch experiment with a shorter and longer open-cart, like I've definitely seen better success with a longer open-cart because of, I don't know, I feel like health stuff is so personal. People do need a bit of time to kind of mull it over in their head and decide if you're the right person for you. So I did a 10 day open cart period but I gave people incentives to buy quickly. So I offered a fast acting bonus. So if they signed up within the first 72 hours they got a really big discount on one of the hair mineral analysis tests that I run. And that's really when the majority of people signed up, was in those first three days because there was incentive to do it. So I think it's really important if you're going to have a two week or 10 day open cart, you still want to give people incentive to sign up quickly and then you want to give them another last minute bonus. This worked really well for me, where you kind of want to push people over the edge and you're like, 'Hey, I'm going to throw in this, this and this.' Super sweeten the deal. And that will get people in at the end. And what was interesting is pretty much like 80% of people bought within the first three days. And then I had like crickets for a few days and this last three hours I had the last 20%. So people really need that.
Christine: That's what I find, launches to mid part of a launch is just going to be crickets. Whatever you do, you would have maybe one or two sales, but people are just going to be annoyed at you and they're just going to say, no, no, no. And then you throw in that kill the deal kind of thing for people who haven't bought yet. So make sure you segment your email list and then that is going to be the, you know, the jet slam dunk bonus, you know, with something that is just too good, that has nearly more value than the whole thing, that is just going to make it a no brainer to sign up.
Kendra: Yeah, exactly. And I ended up just giving it to everyone, because I was talking about it on social media. So all the people who signed up in the beginning were like, oh, can I get it too? And I, I mean I don't care. So I was like, yes, everyone is going to get it. Like, you know, I just didn't want to leave people. I remember I'm signing up for a program once and they did a, a last minute bonus and they, they only gave it to the last minute people. And I remember feeling [inaudible].
Christine: Yeah, and it's just like, come on, yeah.
Kendra: You know, I was like, I'm like, that makes me feel crappy. Because I signed up right away and I felt like I was losing out. So because of that, yeah.
Christine: So you either just do it via email and you actually really segment your lists so that the people who already bought on not going to get that email, which you should do anyway because once people buy, you should stop promoting via email to them. So just make sure that they get segmented and targeted target or email those people who haven't bought yet. So either you do it that way, but if you do it publicly like on social media, then obviously it's going to make early buyers feel terrible. So that's not a good idea.
Kendra: Yeah, and that's a good segue into the next thing you need to think about with launching is like the emails, right? Like how many emails are you going to send out? Like make sure to schedule them in advance. Like, you know, you're going. And how I find works really well is, the people who click on the sales page but don't purchase, they're going to get way more emails then the people who don't click, because I know the people who've gone to the sale page, they're interested, they're thinking about it, they're on the fence, so they need a little bit more encouragement. So those people got probably double the emails then the people who didn't click and I use...
Christine: But Kendra, how do you know who clicked?
Kendra: Well, you need a really good email, I use convert kit, so you need a good email provider. Mailchimp, I'm pretty sure you can't do this sort of thing through something like Mailchimp. So I recommend getting a good email provider. Like I think you use MailerLite, ConvertKit, you can do an active campaign. There's a lot of good ones out there but I can basically tag people who clicked the link and so when I send out the email I say only send it to the people who clicked the sales page or I can send it to everyone who has clicked the sales page but hasn't purchased. Right. Like I can tag the people who also purchased because like you said, you don't want to keep hounding people with marketing emails once they bought, like it doesn't, like that's going to annoy them and they don't understand why they're getting it. They're like, 'Hey, like I signed up. Like why am I receiving this?' So you just want to make sure you tag people appropriately and I get, I do recommend sending more emails so the people who've clicked but haven't purchased versus the people who maybe haven't opened your email or they've gone to the email but they never clicked because maybe they're just not interested, you know.
Christine: Exactly, and they’re not going to convert and there we have a really good topic actually. When you send out these emails, you're going to have shitloads of unsubscribes, right? It's just going to happen when people are going to be, 'Err she wants to try to sell me.' Well guess what, that's what we do. It's a business. So, they will never sign up with you as a client anyways. So for me that's a purge. It's a good riddance. I saw, I delete my unsubscribes religiously every two weeks. I actually deleted my unsubscribes so they're not, they don't exist in my sphere anymore, on my server or anywhere else, you know. So don't worry about it doesn't, it's not personal. It's literally, they have too much stuff going on and it's not a priority for them.
Christine: So don't worry about it, just be happy because they're creating space for new people who actually would be interested in working with you. So that's just a little side note because it can be rough, like, like suddenly...
Christine: you see unsubscribes like woooah, oh no, no, no, maybe I should stop. Don't stop. Like whatever you do, don't stop.
Kendra: Yeah. And I mean that's a really good point. I mean I think I had like 50 people unsubscribe during my launch period. I don't care. They're probably never going to buy for me anyways.
Kendra: They will go back on my list at some point. I unsubscribe and re-subscribe to people's lists all the time because maybe I know they have a product that I'm interested in so I subscribed, but then I still like them. I still really liked them, but my email box, my inbox is full of crap. So I just thought I'm going to unsubscribe for awhile and just like take a break and maybe I'll come back on when I'm interested again. Right. So some people do that.
Christine: Yeah, exactly. So don't take it personal. It's just an email list and I find, it can get tricky if you have a certain amount. Like if it's, if you have too many spam complaints, it might be tricky, but what you can do actually, you can do live chat or through email your email provider know that you're launching something. So you can actually send them an email and you can say, look, I'm going to send up more promotion emails over this period of time. I'm probably going to have more spam complaints and unsubscribes and usually they are very, very understanding because they know the game. Right, so.
Kendra: Exactly. Yeah. That's good advice. Yeah. And so yeah, with your emails, like I recommend like definitely I sent out a lot of emails within that fast acting bonus period and on the day that the bonus ended, I send it out like, I sent like three emails. Right. Just to keep reminding people, like this [inaudible] 3 hours left.
Christine: Yeah, 12 hours, 6 hours.
Kendra: Yes, you got to do that.
Christine: It's 12 hours, 6 hours, 1 hour, even five minutes and you would see if this going to be someone who's going to buy at the last minute and you have to have a countdown on your sales page people. There's no way around it. You need to have a countdown.
Kendra: Yeah. You do need a countdown on your sales page. You can actually, there's a plugin and I actually can't remember the name of it, but I'll figure it out, that you can actually add directly into your emails.
Christine: Yeah, it depends on some your email provider. I think MailerLite you can add one into your email list you added with the date. It doesn't say the hour, which isn't it a bit annoying. So MailerLite, if you're listening, please let me fill in the hour as well, not just the date, but it's also this one called, I want to say dead funnel, dead click funnel, dead funnel.
Kendra: Deadline funnel, which you can add to the landing page. And that basically, it works really well if you want each person to have their own countdown down.
Christine: So it's more for evergreen, right.
Kendra: Yeah, more for evergreen [inaudible].
Christine: You can also add it into emails. Yeah. And I think you can also add into emails. It's quite pricey though, so have a look. But if you [inaudible].
Kendra: But there is one for free, that you can add into email and I'm going to find out the name of it. And I've used it before. I can't remember the name of it, but I will, I'll add it to the show notes once I figured that out, but yeah. So lots of emails went out during that time and then I kind of like put it like one a day for like the middle of the launch. And then again, those last few days I pumped out a lot. I would say with emails like, it's really important that you're not just telling people to buy in the email like you, like all my emails are, like I tell a story, I tell a story about a client, I tell a story about myself. Like I, I, I tell people like why they should be buying. It's not just like, 'Hey, I got this thing, you should buy it.'It's like, 'Hey, like, you know, I spent over $30,000 on my health. I didn't find a solution. It was really frustrating. But then I found testing and I ran these tests on myself and now I'm so much healthier.' Like, you know, tell that personal story, share stories about your client’s success, and really think about like what is the benefit, like when you were listing all the things they get as a part of the program or membership or whatever. Don't just tell them about the thing. Like the benefit is not a Facebook group, because I mean, what does that mean to me. I'm like Facebook group, I don't care.
Christine: Exactly, they don't care.
Kendra: The benefit. They don't care. The benefit is a supportive community of similar people and/or access to experts who answer your questions and keep you accountable. Right? Like, 'Woah, that's actually what I need. Facebook group. Not sure, but like accountability, access to experts, supportive community. Like those things will make me sign up.' Right?
Christine: Totally. Also, call people on their bullshit, right? So tell them. I know it's the human nature to procrastinate. I know it's normal to tell yourself it's not the right time. I don't have the finances. I'm not quite ready yet, but here's what I know. And then tell them what you know. I know that working with me, we'll give you a results. I know that you are not just suffering yourself but to your whole surrounding is suffering with you because you feel like crap and they care about you. I know that you are risking to get worse, you know, so all of these things tell them and what you can also do, this is public speaking kind of tricks. How to sound on stage, but what you can also tell them is it a situation where you were in a similar position and where you took the risk or you took plunge. So tell them a story where you took a decision, where you were on the fence, you've took the decision, and it had a huge impact on your life.
Christine: So it could be, I know the guy who trained me, he's always talking about his daughter said, telling him, asking him to go and watch the sunset with her and she'd gone to college and it was like 5:30 in the morning and you know, it was nice and toasty in bed and he was like the alarm went off. And he was like, 'Oh My God, why am I doing this?' But he went, he got up and it was a beautiful sunrise, was beautiful moment with his daughter, they're totally reconnected. So sometimes you just wants to stay in bed. You're just don't want you to take the plunge. But when you do it, you really get a reward. So use that, use that technique. This is golden people, I paid good money to get this, but use that in your email, you know, tell that story, tell it by a video. You know, do it, like it's really helping people to take that plunge.
Kendra: I love that. Yeah, and that just goes to like the fact that you need to speak to those pain points, like what keeps your people up at night, like what is their main. You got to know your people, like what is the thing that is making it really hard for them to live their fullest life? Like you speak to those pain points, you know. I think that's really important and just really focus on those benefits. Right? And telling those stories like, you know, you can't just be like, 'Hey, buy my, buy my staff,' like maybe a minute, five minute reminder is more of like, 'Hey, just a reminder like this is, you need to get this now,' like that can be more straightforward sales, but all that stuff leading up to that, it needs to actually engage people and show your personality, get to know you, you know.
Christine: Yeah. And obviously don't lie, like keep it real.
Kendra: Keep it real.
Christine: But, I mean you created this thing for them you need to tell them exactly what is in there, you know, it's just. Yeah.
Kendra: Totally. Yeah. So that's the email strategy. Don't worry about unsubscribes, send lots of emails, talk about benefits, share stories, share testimonials, you know, call people on their bullshit. Like Christine says.
Christine: I'm like totally like out there now, but it's like, it's just the fastest way to make people to understand.
Kendra: I love it, I love it. Tough love. That's how I roll too.
Christine: Good, so emails. What else do we have?
Kendra: We have social media. So that's the next thing you need to think about. And during the launch, you want to be posting regularly on social media. Most of my people come to me through Facebook. So during my launch, I went live on my Facebook page every single day of the launch with the exception of the weekend because I was out in the sun, but I went live every single day and I didn't just, you know, talk about the program, but I did very, kind of high value topics that were relevant to what I was actually selling. So I talked about different, you know, health issues that people are going through. Like I had a one on thyroid, I had one on hormones, I talked about gut health and all the parasites I've had, and it all came down to like the bottom line is you need to run this test to determine if you have this thing to get rid of it. Where can you get the testing in my membership, come into my membership, you can upgrade and get that test in there. So I basically gave tons of value doing those live streams. At the beginning I reminded people of the membership and like the cart close date and then at the end I reminded them as well, but the bulk of that live stream was really, really valuable. And this was actually the only ad spend that I had for the entire launch because I boosted, I created ads out of those videos and I just sent them to my Facebook fans. So I did, this was more of a Beta launch for me. I didn't put it out to cold traffic, I only put it to my people. So every day I would just run that video to my Facebook fans for 24 hours, and I think that really helped just, you know, make, create awareness and let people know like, 'Hey, like this is happening and you need to get on it if you want to get in.' Right?
Christine: No, absolutely agree. I think it's, start with a Beta launch or with a soft launch just with your tribe. And then when you figure out the kinks [inaudible]. I didn't sleep like a boss. I'm like, I didn't sleep enough. I went out and partied had people. I am suffering [inaudible].
Kendra: Christine was getting it on, dance style.
Christine: During the week.
Kendra: Oh dear.
Christine: But it was fun. But what did I want to say? Yes. So do soft launch. Do a trial launch, a Beta launch first, you know, lower price point just with your tribe. People that know you already, work out the kinks and if there's anything that's not quite working. Then for the second launch we can just reach out, branch out and do it again. But I think yeah, video as both of us said also when we talked about video like live, it's just the easiest way on Facebook to convert for sure.
Kendra: Yeah, absolutely. And I think, you know, during those live streams you can show your personality and like people, it helps you connect with people. So that people are going to be way more likely to want to come into your program. And I had one live video right at the end where I offered a live tour into the membership, at that point I had mostly completed it. So I gave people a little bit of a tour. So I showed them like, this is what's in it, this is what it looks like. And people were pretty happy about that because, you know, some people, they just, they want to see something before they buy it. Right?
Kendra: So that's a good way to do it. Offer them a bit of a live tour. I just did that for my Facebook page.
Christine: Yeah. I actually had a video like that on my sales page where I went behind the scenes, [inaudible] I showed them how to log in, what was there, where to click, and then I had people, you know, who would worry that it's digital. It's just super simple. Right.
Kendra: I love that. Yeah, that's actually a really good idea to just put that right onto the sales page so people can just see what they need to see. Yeah. So I mean that's pretty much what I did, Christine. And, and in the end the result was I sold 55 spots into the membership and I generated $7,500 with $60 ad spend. So to me that was a huge success.
Christine: It is.
Kendra: A big point why I was able to sell so much at a low price offers because I actually offered a year upfront in advance, like a onetime only year upfront year.
Kendra: I did it for $27 a month. The regular cost of the membership is going to be $47, but I did it for $27 a month, which is really low cost. But I was like so much work goes in on the front end of creating a program. So I was like well if I offer this year in advance, maybe 10 to 15 people will purchase that. And then I've got that money and then I have a group of people who are committed for a year. Right?
Kendra: So I think. So that worked out really well for me and actually a lot more people went for it then I thought they would.
Christine: So now you got to do it, lady.
Kendra: That was really cool, so you know, it was, it was really successful, like minimal ad spend and I think that's something that a lot of people can, it like, hope for or change towards, because you know, you see so much stuff out on social media, these people are like, 'Oh, I just had a $50,000 launch, I just sold $100k launch,' but like I guarantee that is gross, and you have no idea how much money they spent in ads and if they had a $50,000 launch, they may have spent $25,000 or more in ads.
Christine: Oh yeah. Let me tell you, if you have a huge, huge launch where you have affiliates and everything, you affiliate manager alone is going to cost you over a thousand bucks a month. Usually they have a retainer where they cost around $3,000 a month and that's just a team that is looking after your affiliates, right? That is looking who should be your affiliate? What your affiliates have to do? Checking the list size of your affiliates, writing the copy. That's even often a different person. So you have a copywriter, you have an affiliate manager of a team, you have social media manager. Very often affiliates will get 50% of the cut most of the time. Facebook ads is going to cost you, Google ads, YouTube ads, whatever you want to use. All of that is huge cost and I know for a fact that there have been like seven figure launches, but there was like a $240,000 loss of people, you know, asking for refunds plus the affiliates and everything. So from a six figure it went down again to a six, no seven to a six figure launch was still not bad. But there was a lot of money lost, right? So that's how I did mine. I had 230 something euro ad spend and I made a 850 or something, euro gross revenues. So my win, my profit was around 600 and it just, it was just really. My list size is tiny so it was really just for my list and it was not nothing fancy. I didn't put a lot of time in it. So, if I had then scaled or if I wanted to scale it, have a bigger ad spent and the proportion would be the same. I would obviously have made more money. So it's like, it depends on what you want to do. Right. But I think that's why you should always start with a smaller launch and see how it works and when you know how well a lead converts into a sale than you know whether you have a valuable product.
Kendra: Exactly. Yeah. And I, I feel like when I first decided I wanted to start launching, like I would feel really overwhelmed by all those people out there who talk about these massive, you know, 15k, 20k, 40k, 50k launches. But once I've started doing it, I've realized like how expensive it is. So those people aren't reporting net income, you know, they're recording gross.
Christine: Yeah, so totally.
Kendra: It costs $6 to get someone on a Webinar via a Facebook ad. That's the average cost per lead just to get someone to sign up for a Webinar, they're probably not even going to show up live. Like it's really expensive.
Christine: Exactly. And I think that's what we need to talk about at some point to is high ticket versus low tickets.
Christine: If you have something that sells like hotcakes and obviously use your low ticket item. But for me, if I have to spend $6 on someone getting to my Webinar and my Webinar converts just at 3%, I don't even know, I haven't tried it yet. My average sale is around 8k. So for me that's peanuts, right? So it's well spent, but if your package is just like $26 or something or $15 or $20 an hour, then obviously you need to really think about this.
Kendra: You do need to think about it. And like for me moving forward, like with a $47 a month product, like I'll launch yet. But that launch, like I'm not going to make money off of it, but right, because at $47 a month like that, to get 100 people in, it's probably going to cost me about that much to even get them in. But the thing is then it's recurring revenue, so that first month maybe a loss or it may be not a huge, you know, profit. But then if they stick, if I can keep them in, if I can keep that retention high, then it makes sense to do it. But you really have to think, you really have to do your numbers properly. Like, you know, how many people are on your list, what is your average open list, what is a good cost per conversion? Like, I would say cost per conversion ranges from 1 to 10 percent. 10% is really fricking good. You need to have a really engaged following to get a 10% conversion, right? Like I would say 2, 3 percent is more typical. So you kind of have to run the numbers and make sure you know, it's worth it. And for your first launch, like just put it out to your people. See how it goes. Right?
Christine: No, absolutely. I mean there's so much behind this, but this is good start. Get trying and then see what you can do.
Christine: I totally recommend ‘Bushra's program for beginners.’ It's great program. ‘Sold Out Launch,’ I think it's going to, it launches just 3, 4 times a year I believe. And it's a, it's a fantastic program, so I can totally recommend that.
Kendra: Awesome. Yeah, yeah. There's lots of good tools out there and, you know, I think, I think the reason that I honestly think the main reason I was successful is because I asked my people what they wanted and then I give them what they wanted. That was the biggest thing and then I think offering that one year and full helped me generate more income at least initially and now I just have to come up with a plan, how to get people moving into it forward, which is a whole new thing.
Christine: Yeah. So that's 'evergreen' basically meaning that, you know, it's available all year long. So how can you make it valuable? So how can you make people say, 'Oh, I'm just going to get it tomorrow then.' Right? So the evergreen is a completely different principal. I think we're going to do a separate episode on this most likely, or get an expert, an evergreen expert on here to make sure that you understand how to use that best. I personally haven't done an evergreen launch. Kendra is now doing it, so it might be a good idea to do as a test bunny.
Kendra: Yeah, and it's interesting. Like, since I like the founding member discount ended. I've already had like five people sign up at the regular price with and I don't even know where they came from, so that's a good start.
Christine: Yeah, I had tons of people. They're not even on my list and that's when I go, okay.
Kendra: Where do you even come from? But yeah, like it's definitely like to get an evergreen, a really good evergreen funnel so that you can be constantly offering something. Like you may have to launch it a couple times, you may have to test it, perfect it. Figure out what people actually want. That's normal. I've heard that you need to launch something like four or five times before it can go evergreen because at that point you've, you've, you've perfected it. He figured it out.
Christine: Your funnel needs to be pristine though. So. And I actually recommend if you're crap at writing copy, get someone to write it for you. You have people who focus on writing copy for evergreen. So I would say one of the most famous copywriters, probably Tarzan Kay, she's very, very famous for copywriting funnel emails. Another friend of mine is Jennifer Robbins. She's also focusing on evergreen and get the copywriter who knows exactly what they do with your email in order to keep it hot basically.
Kendra: Yeah, totally. Yep, absolutely. I think, you know, and I worked with a copywriter last year and what I did was I wrote all my own copy and she went through and made it better, which I liked because it still sound like me.
Christine: Yep, you can do different packages. Yeah. How to work with them. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Kendra: I mean you want it to sound like you in the end, like you don't want to bring in some really expensive copywriter that in the end it doesn't even sound like you because that's not to the people following you.
Christine: No, no, no, they shouldn't have like a really expensive copywriter should be able to get you, you know, so it's a red flag if they don't, don't pay them money if they don't.
Kendra: Awesome. Well that was fun. That was a really fun topic to talk about and I hope that helped everyone clarify the launch process and whether you should do it or not.
Christine: Well it's been, it's always been money for both of us, you know, like. Good.
Kendra: I think it's worth it to do it,
Christine: To try it at least once. If you had an online business, you have to try at once.
Kendra: It's definitely like, you know, my Beta launches have not had been pretty, you know, like medium stress, but like the real launches that I've done, that is basically me sitting in front of my computer eating out of an almond butter jar in my Lulu Lemons, like hair, like twisted around my head. It's a lot of work.
Christine: It's true. Well if you need something, you get someone who's like really stressed out. You can get people who help you launch it.
Christine: I know I have a friend of mine, Yvonne Derckx, D E R C K X, I think. Yvonne Derckx. She is, she used to work for Philips, [inaudible] like huge companies as a project management and now she's independent and she's an entrepreneur and she's helping people launch actually. So she will do your checklist. She will help you to stay on track. So you can find people like that to help you. If you have a team, you just bring her in. She will tell your team what to do and bida bim bida bang. You're done, right?
Kendra: That's awesome.
Christine: It's not worth getting a heart attack or [inaudible].
Kendra: I mean I've, I've done all my launches totally solo, like I have a virtual assistant but she's just kind of behind the scene dealing with the customer service stuff. But like, yeah, like it's, I'm like, I definitely like fantasize about having a team to support me during a launch because yeah, it is a lot of stuff.
Christine: It is a lot of stress. I've done two on my own. One totally flopped. The second one was good because I just took my time with it. Like I just stretched my deadlines. I was like, I can't get this done this week, so I just do it over two weeks. So you know, be flexible with yourself as well, but if I'm ever going to launch something again, which are highly doubt, then I'd have a team for sure.
Kendra: Yep, totally.
Christine: [inaudible] cannot handle it.
Kendra: Totally. Yeah, I know. I'm sick of almond butter. Alright guys. Well thanks so much. I remember if you liked this episode, you got to tell us, leave us a five star review on iTunes or somewhere, anywhere where you listen to your podcast. That's how we know that you liked this stuff and that we will make more episodes just like this, and I think that's all we got for today, Christine.
Christine: Yeah, I think that's it. Thanks guys so much and we will be back in two weeks.
Kendra: Thank you.