Archive Monthly Archives: October 2018

Using Chat Bots to Engage, Give Value and Sell to Your Ideal Clients

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Tools mentioned in this episode:

ManyChat create a Facebook Messenger bot for marketing, sales and support

Chatfuel create a Messenger bot for marketing, sales and support on the world’s leading chatbot platform

Monkeybot / MobileMonkey Ape Facebook Messenger Marketing bot

Mailchimp Marketing Platform for Small Businesses

PayPal Pay Online, Send Money or Set Up a Merchant account

MoonClerk Recurring Payments and One Time Payments Online

Kajabi The fastest and easiest way for people to launch their online business teaching others what they know through online courses, coaching, and membership sites.

Voxer Walkie Talkie App for High Performance Teams

Gmail Email that's intuitive, efficient, and useful.

About Matt

Matt is a health coach for entrepreneurs, helping them close their contribution gap by helping them build the habits that support the high demands of their lifestyle and using lab testing to find the hidden stressors. He started his formal training as a health coach after listening to over 500 podcasts and seeing over and over how small changes could make a massive difference. As a child, he had massive behavioral issues that were turned completely around by simple food sensitivity testing. In his free time, Matt enjoys cranking iron at the gym, challenging hikes, and playing music.


Christine:        Hello everyone and welcome to the 360 Health Biz Podcast. We have a super exciting episode today and you are joined, I am joined by Kendra and by Matt. 

Kendra:          Hello. 

Matt:               Yo.

Christine:        So you have a threesome, [inaudible] not an amazing threesome. I don't know, but anyway it's going to be a super exciting episode where we're going to talk about Chatbots with our expert Matt, who's also an FDN. So both can run (inaudible) through functional diagnostic nutrition, practitioner training, and cause and platform, so that's really exciting. 

So let me tell you a little bit more about Matt. So Matt is a health coach for entrepreneurs. So listen up, helping them close their contribution gap by helping them build the habits that support the high demands of their lifestyle and using lab testing to find the hidden stresses. He started his former training as a health coach after listening to over 500 podcasts and seeing over and over how small changes could make a massive difference. As a child he had massive behavioral issues that would turn completely around by simple food sensitivity testing. In his free time Matt enjoys cranking iron at the gym, challenging hikes, and playing music. Now if you don't have a girlfriend yet this would be the perfect kind. 

Kendra:            I kind of feel like we might be judged 500 podcasts, oh my god.

Christine:        I know, I'm just like. 

Kendra:            I not sure right now, this pressure is building. 

Christine:        Just a quick side note before we get going, you guys who are always listening to us on our podcast, first of all thank you, but for this one we would actually invite you to head over to our website and also look at the video because we are going to do some screen sharing that it's going to make it just so much easier for you to understand what we're on about today. So that's just a little side note and we're gonna get started. 

Kendra:          Awesome. How's it going Matt? 

Matt:              Awesome. Excited to be here. It's been an exciting week after a lot of traveling in August, I just got back from another trip last week in September like I'm finally set. Yeah, life is life's really good right now. 

Kendra:          That's good to hear, and we're gonna be talking about a topic that I am so excited to talk about. It really brings out the inner nerd in me, we're going to be talking about Chatbots, and you guys might not have any idea what that is and it might sound scary or creepy because it has the word 'bot' in it, but Matt why don't you break down like what is a Chatbot?

Matt:              So think of like a Chatbot as just like an autoresponder. I mean that's kind of all it is. 

Kendra:          Right

Matt:               User says something and then they get something back automatically and you don't have to reply to them. 

Christine:        Exactly.

Matt:              So instead of having your sales conversation over and over and over again you can, after you've had enough those conversations, you can say hey what questions are these people asking, and then turn it around and provide it as value or just you know, walk them through the self process that way. 

Christine:        That's amazing. Like it used to be an out of office reply like, people were in holiday and they would just say I'll be back in a week, and now here you've got a whole process. So it's super super exciting.

Kendra:          So what platform could you use a Chatbot on?


Matt:              The most popular platforms are ManyChat and Chatfuel. My mentor recommended Chatfuel to me because there's just a couple other little features and his experience which he helps people like really grow these things. He says that Chatfuel is a little more stable. 


Kendra:          Okay, and so what do you do with this Chatbot, like do like connect it to a social media platform, do you connect it to your website, like where does this Chatbot go and where is it interacting with people? 


Matt:               Yeah totally. So the Chatbot is primary, at least through Chatfuel and ManyChat can be linked through a single Facebook page. So not a personal profile but a Facebook page and not a group, but there are ways to bring it onto your website. So I know for sure that ManyChat and Chatfuel I think have, can be embedded on the website. So you can have people come to your website and have a little thing in the bottom right, 'hey send us a message,'like, 'got any questions,' and then you know just have them pull up the menu that way. 

Christine:        Amazing. So before we go into the how's and like the nuts and bolts, why would anyone bother getting a Chatbot? Like there must be a reason for their existence, I know that they are, I know some, but I want to hear from you. 

Matt:              Yeah, yeah. 

Christine:        So I 'm new to this, I never heard of it, I'm barely getting coming to grips with Mailchimp or anything like that, now I'm hearing Chatbot, freaking out, what is this? Why should I be listening to this episode and how can it make me clients and money? Because that's basically what we're here for. 

Kendra:           That's the bottom line. 

Matt:              There is. There's so much awesome stuff to say here. So I was talking to someone yesterday and they're like, 'yeah you know, I don't have an email list going and they're not segmented,' and all this stuff, and I was like, 'dude, email open rates are like 10% to 30%. Chatbot open rates are like 90%, which you can't tell if somebody actually read the message you can tell that they opened it just because they're trying to keep that inbox count low, but you would know at least that they're looking at it. And it's on a platform where people aren't overwhelmed. So I think, I think if you get on Chatbots right now you're gonna kind of be in the early majority.  

Yeah, so the next thing is I see this over and over again, it makes me want to bang my head against the wall, because I've done a lot of working in video and kind of sort of like social media management, I see everybody going on Facebook or YouTube or Instagram and when you introduce more and more platforms to your business you introduce more and more overhead, because any kind of content you make has to be tuned for that platform. I'm not gonna post the same like emoji loaded posts that I post on Instagram or Facebook as I do on LinkedIn, right. So it's like you're having to duplicate your work over and over and over again, but then the next like big thing I see is like Facebook is like the biggest nation in the world, basically. It's like however many billion people on it right, and so people get on Facebook and then they're like, 'hey check out my YouTube channel or read my new blog post,'and the thing is it's not beneficial for Facebook to just directtraffic to all these other websites they really want to keep you in Facebook, andthe coolest coolest thing about the bot is that when you share the links to yourbot it doesn't get penalized like a link to an externalsite like YouTube or your personal website does, but what you can do is say, 'hey guys I put up a new blog you know you can learn all about it in my Chatbot,' or something and then have the little menu in the Chatbot, blog, latestblog, or whatever and then you can share it that way.And so the bot is like the ultimate traffic director. 

After you have people in there you can share the link without penalty and if you bring them outside of the bot they also there's no there's no penalty there. So I could bring themto my personal website after that or the podcast page or whatever. So that, thoseare like the biggest reasons. So a little tiny quick recap, is biggestreasons are, no penalty for sharing that link on your personal Facebook profile,and the open rates are way better.  

Christine:        Yeah, so instead of having to set up an email,sent that out, having it ignored by tons of people, here you will basically havemessenger pop up right. So you just for people to understand like, it's literallywhen you have the option to just instead of sending an email you willsend all of these messengers and basically the people who are in your botsystem will have a ping ping, and it will look like they've got a message fromtheir friends as they are used to, so kind of reaction will be much morenatural to open it, right. So yeah, that's basically what it is. 

Matt:               Yeah totally, and before people get like way too excitedlike, 'oh I can just message these people as much as they want,' there are kindof some rules or best practice with that and I believe the best practiceis pretty much for campaigns like, so a campaign is any time you take all thosepeople on your bot list who have ever kind of communicated with it andyou send them a message, that's a campaign, is I would only do thatonce every like two weeks maybe, once a week. 

Christine:        At the most. 

Kendra:           Okay, that's good to know because Ifeel like it separates that from email right, because with email we'redefinitely emailing people once a week, some of us might be emailing twice aweek, but yeah, with the bots it is a bit more invasive. Like you're youknow, people and people don't always understand what it is. I've beenusing ManyChat for a while now and some people talk to me like I'msending them an individual message. Like they don't realizethat it's a mass message. 

Matt:              Yeah.

Kendra:          It can be a bit I guess like off-putting if you're messaging people constantly and they're like why the hell is this person all upin my grill. 

Matt:              Yeah totally. So one of the things you kind of likeavoid that is to give your bot like a personality like, I'm not really good atlike personalities I just put the name like Joey in there right now, and I'llchange it to something better later. But it's like, 'hey this is Bob standing in for Matt,' or something right, and then, 'oh I'm talking to Bob,' or I'm talking to R2D2 or C-3PO this robot assistant you know. 

Christine:        Smart. 

Kendra:          Yeah. Transparency is important right. 

Matt:               Separatefrom you. Yeah, and I mean you could get into a whole conversation about you know,are they talking with your business as a brand and somebody representing thatbrand or are they talking to you as like a personal brand like, individually. Soit's like you have to consider the context of the conversation.

Christine:        Yeah. I agree. Because some people, like I have a bot set up and it's not very, it's half-heartedly done. So it's basically asking the same question over and over again and I can't get it to stop. And it's just like I probably need to figure it out. But yeah, people don't get it like literally they get super annoyed.  

Matt:              Yeah.

Christine:        I just turn the whole thing off.  But yes, transparency might be key, I love the idea of just being full on like, 'Christine isn't right here or isn't here right now but I'm her super cute fluffy nice bot monkey bot,' whatever making a message. You know, but I think it's much more transparent. So that's a super cool idea. 

Now, let's see. So how do people actually get on that list? So we have the idea that you can, all the people who are in the system, you can send them like an email, a message about a blog post that goes out a problem whatever, but how do you actually get them in there? So when I understand, it's in the messenger, but how do people actually reach out? So you said something about posting links and Kendra also mentioned that it can be on your website so let's maybe walk through the two different options. 

Matt:              Yes. So if you do like a, so the thing to know is that your personal page on Facebook which is like I'm Matt right, like that's my personal Facebook page, that has so much more reach than then posting on a business page, and again like we said earlier that's where the majority of people are. 

So if you want to get more people in your bot, I always think about like value-based marketing instead of just like selling people, because when you when you're value-based you have people coming to you who say like, 'wow, I've seen how much value,' and you're building this incredible amount of credibility and they really respect what you have to say and those are the people you want to work with. So when you share that link, 'hey guys I just added a new section on my bot, I added the biohacking section, go check it out,' you know, and so everybody, you know, so you might not have maybe, you were talking about lab testing in your bot or maybe you're talking about diet or like sleep or something and that hasn't previously interested someone but when you announce those new sections, those new learning materials in your bot, then that's one way people can get in off your personal profile. And then the next way would be the bots, so like I said earlier, the bot is linked to the Facebook like public page, like the business page, and so you can change that button. So there's kind of like the profile picture on the left, there's the banner, and then there's a couple buttons towards the right side, and it'll and you can change that button to say, 'send message,' and when people actually first navigates that business page, at least on desktop, the little thing will pop up and say, 'hey you know would you like to send a message.' Especially if you haven't set it up I know what does that, but if they click send message, then they're on your on your bot. 

Christine:        Interesting.

Kendra:          Okay, and then you said the other way is to use that link that goes directly to your Chatbots and use that link like in other posts, like you could use it on a post on your business page but also on your personal page and that would direct people directly into the bot. 

Matt:               Totally. Yep, so those links are always are whatever your page name is. So like the person who's been mentoring me on this, he has taught me that, he's like Matt you don't need a website all you need is like a Chatbot right, because it's like instead of thinking...  

Christine:        So cool.

Matt:              about doing your blog post on some other website that you gotta you know, do three steps to get maximum reach on it from personal Facebook page, what if you just posted those blog posts on your Facebook profile where it's public to the world anyways. 

Christine:        Now wait a minute. 

Matt:              Yeah and then you got a guided them through the bot. Yeah so like.. 

Christine:        How do you post a blogpost in a bot? 

Matt:              You wouldn't, okay so you wouldn't post it in the bot. So it's like you log onto your personal Facebook page right, and instead of having you know most blogs are like 500 words, that's kind of a short blog, 2000 getting that's solid you know, and if you're routinely doing that and like having a bunch of citations and everything then yeah website, might work a little better for that, but if it's just, 'hey here's you know how to make a green smoothie,' you know that's not that's not a complicated post right. So sharing that in Facebook instead and you get the reach through the business page, 'hey guys if you want more recipes you know you can get on my bot here,' or something or write your like, 'download this,' you know whatever. 

Christine:        Ohh.

Matt:              There's just a million different ways you could do it. So instead of putting your blog on like a separate website and then going over to Facebook and say, hey go to my blog you just put it on Facebook in the first place and then you could you know once every two weeks or so, 'hey guys I put up a new blog post check it out here,' and then there's a little button right below that chat and then you can grab what's called the permalink to that post on your business page. 

Christine:        Now I got it. 

Matt:              Yeah, you get that permalink so it says you know say, 'Matt Wright,' and then it'll say, 'April 20th you know 2017 at 4 o'clock p.m.' or whatever. You click that time or date or it'll say 4 hours ago, you click that and then that'll give you the URL for the permalink. It'll say bunch of numbers. 

Christine:        See now I got it. This is cool.

Matt:               Whole new paradigm 

Christine:        Yeah. So instead of sending them to your post immediately, you send them to your Chatbot where they have to click a button to get to the post but that way you gather them into your system. So it's like a middle step, but it's allowing you to get there. 

Matt:              Yeah. I mean so you also get organic reach from your Facebook page even though it's not much and so what you can do is, there's a lot of people who will make a post on their there and this is, pay very close attention to the terminology here, there are "tags" and there are "mentions" and they are different. So a @mention okay, so that's how you "mention" someone and then there's also a "tag," and so a "tag" is I'm with 'blank.' So if you "tag" someone on a business page post it will show up on their personal profile. 

Kendra:          Yes 

Matt:               So instead of sharing it, because if you're sharing it, what happens is that people can comment on the share on your profile or if they click into the post and they're commenting on the post and in essence you're competing with yourself, hey do I want my comments on my personal page or don't want my comments on my business page. 

Christine:        I've got it wrong, crap, yeah. 

Matt:               Yeah. Yeah so, I mean play with it and figure out what it is. And so like I have a bunch of little index cards on my desk and so I like doing what's called rhythms so like I'll go through and I'll communicate in a couple different Facebook groups and so like this is my rhythm for all the groups I do and all like the post type things I want to do and that's just an index card I keep on my desk. My morning and evening routine, they sit over there on my counter. So every, any time I'm like what do I do next, I just pick up a little index card. So you could write "tag" or "mention" you know. Write whatever down helps you remember it just on a little index card or a stick you know and keep that around.  

Kendra:          So you're saying to just you sorry, you "mention" or you "tag" your personal profile on this business blog post that you've made. 

Matt:               That's correct 

Kendra:          Okay.

Matt:              Yep, tag from the business page. 

Kendra:           Tag from the business page, don't share it, tag yourself. 

Matt:               Tag yourself in the original post. 

Kendra:          Okay. This is juicy. I love this. 

Christine:        Yeah. I'm like I'm going to go back to my post and tag myself. 

Matt:              Yeah. Yeah, and that's a totally valid way to do it so.

Kendra:          Very cool. Okay, so we've talked about Facebook but can you also do something like this with Instagram or with other platforms with a bot. 

Matt:              Absolutely. So what I've done on my own Instagram profile, which needs a little bit of tweaking, on the bio is instead of doing that link and profile thing and then bringing to the website or bringing people to the Facebook page where they might like it or they might interact or they're gonna get lost clicking on menu, about me, you know surfaces, or whatever right, just take them right into the bot and then have those options there, 

Christine:        Ohhh.

Matt:              and big big note here, big special note okay, is that when people get in your bot that you need to have a kind of disclaimer message. So for me there's two messages, the first message is, 'hey welcome to my bot,' and then the second message is, 'would you like to sign up for updates yes or no,' and so they're consenting to, hey you are allowed to send me messages and then as health practitioners, we want to share what we know, what the little tips and tricks that have worked for us, and we want to share things about like labs or the technical stuff, that we know is real but we're also, not all of us, are not licensed medical professionals. So I also have a disclaimer in there and it just says, 'hey I'm not a doctor. I don't play one on the internet,' and all you know it's fun and then they say yes I acknowledge this and if they don't acknowledge it then they can't go further and get that information. 

So it's like, so for a health practitioner it's a two-step thing it's, 'hey I want to get messages,' step two is, 'hey you're not a medical doctor and I'm acknowledging that cool,' and then they can get to the main menu. 

Christine:        I love that. The reason why is I love this too is because I work in three languages. So actually the bot allows me to send when people that way straight from the get go. It's super cool. Yeah, and I'm not complying by the way. I'm just like, I don't have that. 

Kendra:          Your scamming people. 

Matt:              So the next big big thing is that you know, there's a lot a lot of people on messenger but for Instagram, ultimately what I'm gonna do is I'm probably gonna use that link tree thing and then I'm gonna say you know people do a post blah blah blah and I still see this so I just want to clarify, is you can't share a link on a post and Instagram, so it's like blah blah blah read my blog post they can't click it nobody's going to sit there going H T T P S w w slash slash dot com. 

Kendra:          Yeah, no one’s going to do that. 

Matt:               Dash, come on. No one's gonna do that so get it, share it in your profile. So what you could do is you could use the link tree, 'hey guys, link in bio,' and then they click on the link tree and the first link there is the Chatbot, so they can get in that way, hey the info is in the chat bot or you want to bring them to a specific blog post or write to the podcast or whatever you're on and so you can you can still split it up that way. You don't have to funnel absolutely everybody into the Chatbot, but I just, I have mine set for my Chatbot right now. And so yeah, go ahead next question, I could go on. 

Christine:        Yeah. No but it makes sense. It totally makes sense, because I am really super annoyed by this linked in not being able to press links, hyperlinks, and go to things so, no, it makes sense and so yeah and I like it also that you can just have a download button that you can add attachments. 

So let's say you have a blog post and you could even say look I have a free gift that goes better and you just download it, and technically you could just write your blog post in a word doc and then when people click on, 'do you want the blog post, yes,' they would just get the word doc as an attachment. 

Matt:              Yeah. Yeah, that's one way to do it. I'm always thinking about like how am I gonna use this and like user experience. So like one of the things I'm very like sensitive to is like how easy is it to like do the things in my life? So like having a morning routine, like makes it like a thoughtless process for me to like get up and then start my day in an organized way and like feel good. So like even on my shades in my bedroom there's the little pull things right, and so I always pull the shades a specific direction, so I put like a little piece of tape on there. So I can just go over there blindly feel it and just like throw that one and I get the shades going the right way every time. So it's like it's that sensitive for some people.

So it's like it's like yeah, yeah okay so like I put I made a little freebie thing recently right and so if I click get it or something and then it goes to a word doc well, I can't view a word doc on my phone or like PDF okay, it's like after they see that how are they really actually going to use this? How do you want to interact with it? You don't want ten different steps to do it, you don't want to have to think. 

Kendra:          Yeah.

Matt:              You wouldn't want to click next next next next next next and so you could think.

Christine:        Interesting.

Kendra:          Yeah, and I mean I love the Chatbot, because you know you're mentioning about like email open rates and I have just a little mini chat little bot on my website, you know it's kind of like the pop-up like the customer service window and before when people used to contact me through my website, I'd get, it go to my email and then I email them back but then I'd never hear from them again, but now that they're on the bot, like I have access, unless they unsubscribe, to their Facebook page and honestly, I sell most of my clients I get them, I turn them into clients through Facebook Messenger these days. I do that with probably about more than half of the people who I'm signing his clients. I'm not even getting on a Discovery Call. 

Matt:               That's awesome. 

Kendra:          I'm not doing anything. I'm selling them on the Chatbot. It's so crazy, I just added that a few months ago and I was like this is a game-changer like I almost need to shut it down because I'm too busy. 

Christine:        So Kendra, how does it work, tell us, walk us through your Chatbot. So I'm coming to your website and then, just for people who don't know how it works, so you have basically a plug-in where you enter some code and it, when you go to the website it would just pop up and it has your Facebook picture, if not on Facebook, and then you can just type it. So it's much more intuitive and you can have them all your pages. 

Kendra:          This is like a very simple bot. It's just from ManyChat, it's a little code, I think it's in like my header script or something like that. It pops up on every page just in the little bottom right corner and it just says, 'hey, how can I help you?' and then people might ask me questions, and then my auto response is like, 'hey this is Kendra's assistant bot like nice to meet you, what do you need help with?' and it's like I have like my gut, my hormones, I don't know what I need help with, and they can select one of those three options and then it responds it's like, 'great, are you willing to provide me with some more information, I'll pass it along to Kendra and she'll get back to you personally within one business day,' or something like that probably much sooner. 

Christine:        And then it'll shut up, then it's quiet?  

Kendra:          And then it shuts up. 

Matt:              I think that's really awesome. 

Kendra:          Yeah and that's it, and then I come in there and I usually respond sooner than one day, but then I can actually have this ongoing dialogue. I think the only thing missing is I'd love to be able to just send people like, invoice them over the messenger because that would make it even more. 

Christine:        Well...

Matt:               I would just use PayPal and then you can send them a link for a specific amount, where they can type it in. 

Kendra:          That's true, I just hate PayPal

Christine:        Yeah. Or something like MoonClerk. MoonClerk you can just send them a link to your payment form, which is awesome. 

Kendra:          Okay. Does MoonClerk go through the stripe? 

Christine:        Yep.

Kendra:          Perfect. Yeah I like stripe. I hate PayPal. So I'll look into that. 

Matt:               So one of the other things you can do in your bot is, you could actually deliver an entire program through a bot. Again, I'm very sensitive to like user experience, so I would not like to sit there and like I, say I buy a course on like wood carving or something right, like I'm not gonna want to sit there and read the 600-word message in a bot right, like. 

Kendra:          Yeah.

Matt:              I generally keep the messages like pretty short and if it's longer then you bounce them out to wherever the whole of the content is, so that could be you know a Facebook post or you know a website. But the thing is what you can do is you could have someone pay for a program and then you can manually go into your Chatbot and there's different like tags right like hey this person is subscriber or hey this person is in program 1 or program to a program 3 and having them in program 1, 2 or 3 you can have, you can allow them access to different menus and things. So say after someone's in the program you want to give them access to a library of videos or something, so instead of having to like log on to a desktop, log into like my Kajabi or some course thing right, have all your videos in a secret Facebook group and then have the Chatbot you know, hey Chatbot I need to help with travel or something, and then goes, here's the travel video, and only the people in the program can get to it but then it's just linking them to a video that's in the secret Facebook group. So it's like, so instead of having to like go through and flip through all these videos, they can message a personal assistant and get like a customized kind of response back. 

Christine:        Ohhh. Juicy, but they would have to know what to look for though. 

Matt:              Well, like think about how like a person messages. Like, hey Matt, I need, like what kind of messages you see, 'hey Matt, I keep waking up at 2 or 3 a.m.' and it's like, here's the video on that, or something. 

Christine:        Okay [inaudible]. 

Matt:              [inaudible] something else 

Christine:        So you have a base of keywords that when people type in the keyword your bot will know what to send them, basically. 

Matt:               Correct. Yeah, and that's, in Chatfuel that's called set up AI and then you can set up keyword and then have it linked to specific blocks, which are the parts in the bot. 

Christine:        I do you like that. I do like that idea or my second thought of genius was you know, we have lots of health coaches listening to this is, you know people need accountability. So just having the drip-feed kind of campaign where every day they would get a message. So for me it would be, hey this is your lovely sleep expert of the day, how did you do with your sleep hygiene or I don't know did you manage get out of bed in time? I'm watching you. I don't know. 

Matt:              How many times have you downloaded an app that sends you daily notifications and that is the thing that keeps you accountable. 

Christine:         Yeah, so... 

Matt:              It doesn't for me. So I would rather, I would rather have, structure of my program, and again this is up to how you want to run your program, I'd rather structure it as weekly check-ins or you know, have a separate platform where they can message you specifically like Voxer or something is a good one. 

Kendra:          Mm-hmm

Christine:        Interesting, but it's so much opportunity there. I mean it's crazy. Yeah. 

Kendra:          Yeah, and so how do people, so once they, let's talk about how people get out of your Chatbot, because obviously like they opt in, they're in they're in it for a while, but maybe they're like okay, I don't want to get messages from Matt anymore, he's annoying me, it's not my thing anymore, I changed my interests, how do people actually get out of that? 

Matt:               There is, so there's something called a hamburger menu, which is just, I'm like looking for my bot right now so I can find exactly what this button is. Okay, there it is, my light was covering it. Yeah, so right by the little type message there's a little menu, it's three lines and if you click that, I think that should have an option or you can add keywords into the bot, stop, unsubscribe, quit, you know, I mean or other insults you get, 'hey, this is so annoying,' okay, your unsubscribed know. Yeah, it's just keyword triggers for that.

Kendra:          Cool. Yeah and I always, every time I send out a broadcast email, I always have a PS like PS: if you don't want this contact this content type stop. Just so that people always know how to get out of it. Kind of like the unsubscribe button in the email like. 

Christine:        Yeah.

Kendra:          I've been getting emails from this one person and there's no unsubscribe button, and I'm like what's the, what the hell. 

Matt:               [inaudible]

Kendra:          I think it's illegal yeah. I'm like how do I get out of this? And I'm like replying back, I'm like unsubscribe but.. [inaudible] 

Matt:               Side note it's also illegal to just take random chunks of downloaded contacts from over the years and in Gmail or whatever program you use and just upload them to an emailing list platform. That is legal.

Kendra:          Yes.

Matt:               They have to consent to it. 

Kendra:          So I have a question. So with the bot that you use are you able to do, because what I'll do sometimes is I'll connect that bot to a specific Facebook post, like maybe it's a Facebook live that I'm doing or some other post I'll be like, 'hey like comment this word to get the guide or to get the handout,' and all they have to do is comment on that post and then they'll get the message through the bot, through messenger, that will deliver them that lead magnet or whatever it is, do you use it in that way?

Matt:               Yeah. I'm just starting to use it in that way. So I made something for the show actually which we'll talk about at the end. Yeah, so you can totally use it that way. I mean it's kind of one of those things, it's like you ask people a question, like I was into maker electronics for a while, so like the Raspberry Pi Arduino and all that and I was trying to build like an automated watering system, and so if you hand someone this technology and you say, 'oh you can do anything with it, what would you do?’ People are kinda like, 'ahhh, I don't I don't know what I do,' but if you tell them like, hey what if you could do this, and you start introducing just a couple of the options to them, then all the dots start to connect. 

Christine:        Yeah I do love the chat kind of option, I find it was really well with my videos and when I just say look I've created this guide or cheat sheet just comment below or just say that keyword, it works really really well. People like it. 

Matt:               Yes. So there's one thing I'd really love to get to before we close this out and that is actually how to boost the reach of your of the post on your personal Facebook profile and the technique works similarly for Instagram as well. But yeah that's another thing you can do with bots, is you don't have to just enter the keyword while talking to the bot, you can have a post on the business page, 'hey guys comment this below to get X,' and so then they can comment you know, hashtag this or whatever, and you want to make it kind of a unique keyword, because if you write the keyword is 'the cat' right, well the AI is gonna go what did they type, the cat or like the space cat or something right. 

Christine:        Ohhh.

Matt:               And so the AI is automatically gonna pick up some of those other words. So you need to be conscious about the exclusions you're setting for that. It's like what are all the different ways that people could likely type this, then ask, do some [inaudible] for you, but the other thing to be conscious of is, people do this on their personal Facebook profile page a lot, and it's called its engagement bait, 'hey guys my favorite book is blank what's yours below or like drop a gift below,' and so everybody's dropping the same type of comment love this, love this, love this, love this, and then and then the person will come in there it's called a comment letter, I believe, and respond with the exact same link to everybody. If you do that you and so on your personal page you want to kind of limit your responses that are redundant to like five. Like don't go in there and reply to everybody all at once. 

Christine:        Why? 

Matt:               Facebook will just ding it as spam basically. So it's like if I'm if I'm going to everybody say there's 20 comments and I go to every single comment, hey here's the link, hey here's the link, hey here's the link, like that's spam dude. 

Christine:        That's so funny, because I'm getting into LinkedIn at the moment and it's the exact opposite. It's really the exact opposite. Whenever you get that engagement it goes out whosh through the roof. So Facebook and LinkedIn are so different, it's like it's not even real, but it's lovely. I'm saying goodbye to Facebook actually. 

Matt:               Yeah, yeah. I think I'm going to move from Facebook as well. Even though I've learned a lot about it so, and it's just it just has to do is target market, so. 

Kendra:          Yeah, it does. 

Christine:        Yeah, agree totally, no but this has been super super exciting, and I do like the fact that you put it on your personal facebook profile but and you lead them back to your business page in the end, right, because I mean the times where business pages got a gazillion billion like, so just over, I mean it's Facebook its page play, and I think we're all noticing it, especially in the health sector Facebook is cracking down so hard. I've just heard so many people who had the ads account closed because of not being compliant and using words that are just ridiculous, because they are not doing anything but Facebook is just having this crusade, against health or alternative health, it's just yeah, it's not easy. So you need different things like Chatbots, I don't know, I believe to get people into your system. 

Matt:               Mm-hmm

Christine:        Good. Alright let us quickly check if we have any other notes. 

Matt:               This is something I'm really excited about it's a, I've copied the notes from the email that I've got in front of me, and it's how to smash reach on your personal Facebook profile. So it's like if you are gonna share this link, well let's see how we can get it max reach. So are you ready to have your mind blown's again. 

Kendra:          Yes. I'm ready. 

Christine:        You want to share you screen so that we can see.

Matt:               Well, okay, so it's kind of a, it's not hard rules. These aren't real things that it's… 

Christine:        Okay.

Matt:              It's a rule of thumb and it's what works. It's what works right now, this is always changing. Yeah, yeah, but this is something that works right now and it's a rule of thumb it's not real. It's called the points game okay, and so a like on Facebook, you're on your personal profile just in your newsfeed, a 'like' is 1 point, every 'action' is 3 points and a 'heart' is 5 points. A 'comment' is 3 points and a 'love' or a thoughtful comment is 5 points okay, and you want to get to 50 points before you post. And so then there's another concept and I, yeah, called weeding and watering. So if you don't like what somebody's posting then don't engage with it or in the top right of that post there's also three buttons and you can say hide posts like this or something.  

Christine:        Hold on one second. So the points, you first have to gather points before you post. 

Matt:               That's correct. 

Christine:        Ah, so you go and comment on other people's stuff, gather your 50 points by engaging on other people's stuff before you post on your own. 

Matt:              Correct, yeah. 

Christine:        Got it. 

Matt:               So the big thing with Facebook is that people see more of your stuff when they reply to your comments on their posts. So you go comment on their posts and with thoughtful comment, you know, don't be dumb okay. If they post a picture of their dog, 'hey cool dog,' that'd just be like a comment like, 'hey cool dog, what breed is that?' But don't ask what breed it is if one, you aren't genuinely interested and two, if they say what breed it is in the post, like that's just dumb. That's engagement bait the other way, right. 'Hey man, how long it, what's your favorite part about having a dog? Mine is blank.’ You know, and you end up you know, thoughtful comment it'll be, I generally just think of as a question, that is genuine genuine interest. You know, and it's like Dale Carnegie, if you take genuine interest in people like they're gonna reciprocate right, and that's the way it works on Facebook. So your real goal is getting people to respond to your comments but also getting to those 50 points, make sense? 

Christine:         Right, yes. 

Matt:              So do that do that before you post and it's not like oh I got up at 8 a.m. today I'm gonna do 10 of my points. No, so what I do is again like I said I have rhythms, so it's not an index card it's in my head and so the the best time, 80% of people live on the central and east coast us combined, eighty percent of people. So if you post at, if you post at 8 p.m. in Pacific time, so California time, what time is it where eighty percent of people live? It's like 11:00 12:00 a.m. people were in bed. So again ideal posting time, there's not one ideal posting time, but post when the majority of your market is active. So for me. 

Christine:        Which is actually probably at 12. 

Matt:              Yeah, totally yeah it is yeah probably is, and so I mean you could sit down and kind of pre-write your post and then kind of just wake up in the middle of the night and wear your blue blockers right, and then you know do your 50 points of engagement and then paste your post in. 

Kendra:          Okay. So wait a second. So you do this, so just with the point system, you're doing this on other people's posts, on different pages, you're doing this on your own page on a different post that you've already posted to get these points before you post. I just want to make sure I understand. 

Matt:              It's on other people's posts. So you just go newsfeed, hey John posted, hey I'm gonna comment on John's thing. Oh, Susie posted, I don't like what Susie has to say, so I'm gonna leave that, I'm not gonna engage with it. Oh Parker posted something, oh I'm gonna engage the Parker, that's a really cool picture you know, where's he traveling next. So it's just other people's posts out in the wild. Make sense. 

Christine:        Yes.

Kendra:          Okay, and then after you do that out in the wild, you go to your own business page and post your post whatever it is. 

Matt:              Personal page.

Kendra:          Personal page? 

Matt:               Yep, this is for personal page. 

Kendra:          See, I never use my personal page for anything. I don't, I feel like I would not be on social media, if it wasn't for business but I do see a lot of other entrepreneurs using their personal pages and I definitely feel like I must be missing something. 

Matt:               Yeah, so.

Christine:        It's a tricky one I find. Like I think it's, as an entrepreneur you kind, your business is such a big part of you that you, you know that it's just, yeah I think it's hard, because you don't want to annoy a piece of people in your personal friend space, but at the same time your business is you, especially if you're a solo-preneur. So but yes, you can't track people, you have other people on your person page or actually your potential clients. I think you also need to think about that, for me that's a definite no. 

Matt:               Yeah.

Kendra:          Yeah.

Christine:        So it's like, I think if you cater for more general health things maybe, but for me it's just if I do it from time to time it's fine but for other people they're ideal clients are in their personal space so. 

Matt:               Yep totally, so a similar strategy can also be used on Instagram. So before I post on Instagram, hey it's, I know it usually takes me 30 to 60 minutes to go through and get those 50 points or to find posts that I actually want to engage with, because most people, like Facebook doesn't teach you how to use Facebook so… 

Kendra:          Yeah.

Matt:              people kind of suck at Facebook you know, which is what we're learning about today. 

Christine:        So weird right, yeah. 

Matt:               Yeah, yeah. So you can do something similar in Instagram and I shoot to engage with 7 to 10 photos, and the cool thing about Instagram is that if you're, like we said you can still have your Chatbot linked, it can be separate from who you are like personally, so you can keep Facebook as a personal thing but doesn't mean that you can't employ a Chatbot right. Where you could just have it on your website, you know link bio, here's my website, here's my Chatbot, but I have most of the Chatbot can of pointing people into the websites and things. Does that make sense? 

Christine:        Yeah.

Kendra:          Yeah.

Matt:              So go through, engage of seven to ten photos that's going to be like a heart, and a thoughtful comment, seven to ten photos, target market time, right and then you would write your post. 

Kendra:          Okay. That makes sense and I actually, when we talk about Instagram, that makes me more exciting, because I actually really like Instagram. I'd like to engage on Instagram but I just don't on Facebook. I've unfollowed every single person I know. 

Christine:        I know. 

Kendra:          The only thing I get on my Facebook page just like business and health stuff. Christine: I know, [inaudible] that's like the same thing for me. 

Matt:              So, I've heard stats that like a good Instagram profile engagement is between like 2% - 3% but using that strategy, I'm looking at my stuff right now, I have only 460 followers and I'll get like, here's a post with 90 likes and 11 comments, which is like closer to 25% engagement or here's another post with 90 and 9 comments, and 60 likes, 17 comments. 

Christine:        That's a lot. 

Kendra:          Yeah.

Matt:               So recap, I always love doing recaps because I hate going back and having to like listen to ten minutes of stuff to figure out what it is. So recap, get on Instagram and at the target market time, 30 to 60 minutes before, however long it takes you to engage with stuff, genuinely ask questions, forward the conversation, okay. So 7 to 10 photos, genuinely engage, then write your post, and in your post, provide like really good value. Don't like go through and like you know get 50 points or whatever, and then you know, hey here's a picture my dog, like yeah that'll help the reach but like is that what we're doing here, like we're marketing. That's what we're doing. 

Christine:        And I think we need to really explain to people who are listening to this and hear like, 'oh my god I don't have time, an hour a day,' here's the thing you are your business. If people don't see you, they won't know you exist, they won't know that you can help them. So it's about building your network and building your network, network, is part of your business. Unless you have a practice that's completely overrun with clients and you don't know how to pull them off and you have a super high price tag and you still have a gazillion clients, then we might say, ok you don't need engage anymore, but my guess is that a lot of you want to either charge higher ticket and then you don't have all the clients or you have tons or you don't have enough clients to even start with. So building your network, putting in the time of at least an hour a day on social media is just part of the job description. It's maybe not most sexy thing in the world, but it's just thing you've got to do. 

Matt:               Yeah totally, and if you want to talk about drafting posts, I really do like Instagram because you can draft posts in Instagram. So like anytime like I'm, like I traveled this past week I took like three or four pictures of like the supplements that I took with me or like the I took my blue blockers with me, I took you know a blindfold or not a blindfold, the sleeping mask.  

Kendra:          [inaudible]

Matt:              Different connotation, yes. 

Christine:        [inaudible]

Matt:              So no, yes, it's a sleeping mask. 

Christine:        Kinki. You have to look at the video to see what Matt looks like. [inaudible] 

Matt:              I'm a little bit. 

Kendra:          I love it. 

Matt:              Ok, this is ridicules you guys. 

Kendra:          That's how we role. 

Christine:        It's just what we do. 

Matt:              So you're in your environment, take pictures of the stuff you do, the supplements you take or whatever, and then that's your post like or like I'll go rock climbing and my hands will be all torn up right and so that's an opportunity to talk about exercise and like having fun exercising and not just like lifting weights all the time like, I like lifting weights because it makes you look better and you feel awesome doing it, but like I have a lot of fun rock climbing too, and so it's not always about like function, function, function, you have to do this and be in this routine and everything it's like, have some fun every once in a while. And you can just go through and pick those pictures out, and do the drafts, and then you just hit, and if you don't know how, so you would go through you'd pick your picture and then you'd write your little thing and then you just hit the back button and it's gonna say discard post or save draft, save draft and then we click the plus button again the pictures gonna be there, and so is the post, like that's it. 

Kendra:          Easy.

Christine:        Ha.

Matt:               Totally.

Christine:        What did we do? We wanted to talk about Chatbot, now we know how to trick Facebook into thinking we're super engaging and passionate. 

Matt:               Yeah.

Christine:        [inaudible] Instagram. We build a funnel, basically we know the do's and don'ts. I think it's amazing. We all use three different Chatbot actually, you use Chatfuel

Kendra:          mm-hmm.

Christine:        Cat-fuel? Cat-fuel, right? 

Matt:              Chat-fuel? Chatfuel

Christine:        Which one is it?

Kendra:           Chatfuel.

Matt:               Chatfuel

Christine:        Chatfuel, it makes much more sense. Chatfuel, Kendra uses ManyChat and I use MobileMonkey Ape. So there's three different platforms, I still have to figure mine out but I think it's just because I put in, didn't put in the time, but [inaudible] different things out and you know, compare them and so Matt, when people, do you do like, helping people to set this stuff up. 

Matt:               I honestly came on this podcast just because I see so many people doing it wrong and these small changes can help you do it right, because we as functional practitioners of various types have a great message, but you aren't always the most versed on social media, you want to sit and read research papers. So listen to this podcast you know, write out on a little index card how to do the stuff, keep it by your computer and then and then do it right, and get your message out there.

Christine:        And if you don't, if you have a question, then they can still reach out to you right?

Matt:              Totally, yep. 

Christine:        How do they do that? 

Kendra:          How do people do that? 

Matt:               We're gonna we're gonna use the Chatbot for this one, right. Or you could personally you know, so you can go you can go dig around in there. So that link is - m a t t w r i g h t f d n and dot me, [inaudible]. 

Christine:        All right cool, we will link it in the post.

Matt:               Perfect. Yeah and so we didn't really talk about like how to get started with the Chatbot, and I'd strongly recommend getting a template by someone you know, who knows what they're doing. Because there are some communities out there where everybody's coming out, oh I'm the expert on this, and it's like they barely know anything. The guy who teaches me, he has his own templates and there... 

Christine:        Can you share who he is? So that we can check him out and steal it.

Matt:               Yeah, his link is and that's b o t s d o n e 4, number 4, u, and so I also linked that in the little, I put together a little freebie for this on the points game. So you can go in my bot and type in #360healthbiz, b i z and you can go get the points game download and it'll, you can print it off or write it down and it'll explain to you how to how to do the thing.

Christine:        I love it. I'm totally gonna steal that opt-in idea. I mean that's genius. Alright people, boys and girls, we've been on for quite a while, so I think that's all we have time for today.

Kendra:          Yeah. Thank you so much Matt. That was really awesome. I learned a ton, and for everyone out there, if you guys like this podcast, remember to give us a five star review on iTunes, it helps us get out there, it helps us be seen, and we would give you a shout out, we would send you hearts, we would love you so much if you would do that and you can head to our website: We have a YouTube channel, we have our transcript on our website, what else do we have? Oh yeah we have a toolkit.

Christine:        [inaudible] cupcake money for, Thank You Kendra for this information and Christine and for your time and doing all the show notes and uploads and all of that, then you can buy us a cup of coffee on our ​patrons site and shout out to Kylene, who left us a five star review... 

Kendra:          Yes.

Christine:        on iTunes your our favorite, and we have an amazing free gift as well, not on our Chatbot yet, we have to set that up, but you can, just go to my website and you can get a free tool box, where we have all the tools that we've used in our business. Which is quite a bit, I think it's over 16 or something like that or 20 even, I'm not sure, where you get a description, promo discounts, all kinds of things, everything we use so that you don't have to do the trial and error that we both went through. 

Kendra:          mm-hmm, awesome. 

Christine:        We'll see you in two weeks. Bye. 

Matt:              Myself? Two weeks? 

Christine:        Every two weeks we have an estimate, every few weeks. So when... [inaudible] 

Matt:               Oh okay, I was like another interview I don't know about. 

Christine:        Oh Matt, no sorry, I don't know we... 

Kendra:          Maybe we'll have you on again. 

Matt:              Yeah. We could talk we could talk systems. So I had a conversation with Brendon Virmire yesterday, he brought me into metabolic solutions which is mega freaking cool and so I'm doing both health coaching in there as well as like biz dev. So I have a whole business communication and task assignment philosophy. I don't know how it exactly it's gonna transition to the functional medicine stuff and see what he's already got set up, but as far as like conducting online business, the system I've laid out works really. 

Kendra:           Well we, I want to have him on too. I was just thinking that today. I love Brendon. 

Christine:        So we'll have you guys test drive that and when you're making shit loads of cashola then you're going to teach us how it works. Anyway, until then thanks for listening everyone and we'll talk to you very soon. Bye. 

Kendra:          Bye.

Functional Testing – How to Use a Stool Test for Better Client Outcomes

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RocketLinks Grow your audience by adding retargeting pixels and own Call-to-Action to your branded links.

Grab our Ultimate Stool Testing Cheat Sheet for all the secrets we mention in this episode!


Christine:         Hi everyone and welcome to this wonderful episode of the 360 Health Biz podcast with Kendra Perry, my wonderful partner and myself, Christine Hansen. 

Kendra:            Hello.

Christine:         And today we are super excited because we have a lot, lot to talk about, which is superinteresting for practitioners as well as if you are somewhat trying to improve your health. So first of though before we going into how should I say, introduced this steamy topic, we're going to have a quick round of shoutouts and we had two amazing people who left reviews for us on iTunes. So Kendra, maybe you want to introduce that because it was absolutely amazing and also to say hi to everyone.

Kendra:            Yeah, well, Hi Christine. I'm really excited for today's steamy topic because we're talking about poop, which is honestly my favorite topic ever, but I do want to give these shout outs so we got to five star reviews on iTunes. One from Justine. She says, ‘I've been wanting to listen to your podcasts since you launched. I finally got a chance to listen to episode one and I was blown away. The whole episode was gold. Thanks for doing this.’Thank you, Justine. I know who you are, Justine, and I'm so happy to hear from you and we so appreciate your awesome review, and then we have one more from Heather, and she says, 'Thank you Kendra and Christine, you have already made my life as a healthpreneur so much easier. I've learned so many actual tips and tricks that I feel confident with my business to grow to the next level. Your guests are top notch and exactly what I need to up level my confidence and take action. Already a huge supporter and fan. Keep up the great work. Thank you for sharing so freely.'Ooph.

Christine:         Woohoo, I absolutely love it.

Kendra:            That one feels good. I just feel all like warm and fuzzy. 

Christine:         Oh tearing up. No, it's amazing. Thank you so, so much. And all of you guys out there, please, please, please, we read these, you know, we have a happy dance each time we see those. So absolutely would appreciate it if you head over to iTunes and just leave that little five-star review and then just know that there's two people doing a happy dance just for you, so. 

Kendra:            Every time.

Christine:         All right, before we're going to geek out, we are mixing Biz and business education. So today we're going to have a tool of the day and we're going to talk about RocketLinks so you can find them at and if you go to our website, the, and you download our free tool guide, then you will find a link in there as well. And here is why RocketLink is absolutely fantastic. So as you hopefully know that is that Facebook is, for example, great to target people and to show them ads of what you do. Now the easiest thing to do is if you target people who are actually interested in you, so the more interested they are, the more engaged they are, the lower you pay as in price because Facebook says, Ooh, this person actually talks to people who like it, we get more engagement, people love Facebook again, so we're going to drop the price for the advertiser. Now the easiest way is when people have been what we call pixels by Facebook, which means that they have engaged with you, they've been tagged, so that when you tell Facebook who you want to talk to, when you do your ad, Facebook already knows, okay, all of these people, so engagement is better and cost is lower. Now the problem with that though, not necessarily problem, but you are limited because either these people have interests, interacted with you via Facebook on the platform, so that could happen via video, via post, a comment, checking out page and liking it, or you have installed the pixel on your website. So if someone goes to your website, the pixel tags them if they have a Facebook account and that way you can target them when you run your ads. But for everything else your pixel is pretty much useless. So let's say someone finds you on Pinterest, they will not be tagged because that's not how, Facebook doesn't have a place there to put a pixel on, which is basically this little sticker, you can imagine it like a sticker that's going to be put on you. So what RocketLink does is, that everyone who clicks on a link that is via RocketLink is going to be tagged via your Facebook pixel. So let's say you write a blog post, you have the URL for me, it might be and I will go to RocketLink, I will give them the link and they will transform it into a shorter link or one you can actually have your branding, so you have your particular RocketLink link that leads to your blog post and then I might go to LinkedIn and I share that link there and when people click on it, even though they are not on my website at that point, they will get pixeled or if you have it on Instagram or if you have it on Google+ or on Twitter, then people might even go and be led to a different site, which is not your own site, it could be a other article that you found somewhere and they would get pixeled, which is absolutely fantastic because not everyone is going to go to your website, right? So you can take third party articles and still have people be tagged with your pixel, which is pretty fantastic, right. So the example of my own blog was not the best actually because if they come to my website they would be pixeled anyway, but I could for example, make something super amazing, which I could then share on LinkedIn for example. People would click on that and even though they would go to Kendra's site, they would also be pixeled for me so I could show them ads on Facebook, which is pretty cool. 

Kendra:            Yeah. 

Christine:         Does that make sense?

Kendra:            Yeah, that makes total sense. That's awesome. So basically I can target anyone, even if I'm not sending them to my website or my stuff, I could be like, hey, like Christine Hanson's a sleep, sleep expert, she did this awesome video and then I can pixel them. That's crazy. I don't know why I'm not using this. 

Christine:         Yeah, because you can Kendra. I'm sharing stuff.

Kendra:            That's first thing I'm going to do, that's pretty awesome.

Christine:         But yeah, it's pretty fantastic, because then you could show them an ad and say, look, I know that you are interested in sleep. You could obviously work with this Christine, but I also help you with stuff like that, you know. So that would be fantastic, maybe no poaching clients from each other, that might not be the best example. But let's say I write an article on the Huffington Post, that I want to share on a platform that's not Facebook, and I know that the people going to be interested in an article will be interested in my services, then I would share that article with RocketLink and then I would target them on Facebook, which is a little bit creepy because people will say, how did she know I never checked her out on Facebook or on our website, but that's how dear people. 

Kendra:            Wow, that's very cool. Yeah, creepy from maybe a lay person perspective, but from an online marketer's perspective, that gives me tingles all over. 

Christine:         Yes, exactly. Exactly. Plus, it's cheaper because the people are already interested, you know, so it's going to give your ad a better ranking and lower cost, and that's what we're all about. So you can find all the info in our toolbox, which is for free on our website. So I head over there right now and download that. And with that we're going to start with our hot and steamy topic, which is poop. And everyone who is a little bit into how, will know that poop is amazing when it comes to helping figuring out what's going on with your health. And so let's take a look. And our first question is basically why is the gut important regardless of your niche? So Kendra I do different things, but both of us are absolutely poop enthusiast, fans, put it that way. I don't know the word know, but never mind and let's say, because the reason is that poop gives you such a beautiful and I don't know how to talk inside. 

Kendra:            Insight.

Christine:         And, yeah. So Kendra let's see. What is your number one reason why you adore having poop in the conversation when you talk with your clients? 

Kendra:            That is a great question. And the reason for that is just because like the gut is this massive system and it's the way that we digest. We absorb, we break down our food which eventually gets turned into minerals, into vitamins into all these things that we need for our body to run properly. So when people have symptoms, when their body's not working, you're going to find that the root of it might be in their digestive system and pretty much know I've worked with people with all kinds of issues, hormones, mental health issues, deficiencies, inflammation, autoimmune conditions, acne, skin health, all those things. And when we do gut testing, I mean I always see that there is a mess and when we clean up the gut, a lot of those symptoms will start to go away and you know, just to give it some perspective, like with hormones, like hormones are made, broken down, upregulated, downregulated and detoxified in the gut. So if there's hormonal issues, there's going to be gut issues. Same goes for neurotransmitter's. A lot of those are made in the gut. So if there's mental health issues, there's going to be gut issues. If there's inflammation, the gut is a massive source of inflammation. Autoimmune conditions are often triggered by infections. So, in the gut. So we really, I think regardless of who you're working with, whether regardless of your niche, if you're helping people with acne versus hormonal balance versus sleep, you do need to address what's going on in the gut or you might just be spinning your wheels and you may not actually get anywhere with that client and be able to help them. 

Christine:         Absolutely. And it's one of the first questions that I ask and I ask it kind of subtly way because people don't expect me to ask that when I talk about sleep, right. So they would go, well I get up at that time, that's my bedtime routine, and when I asked them about the bowel movements, they're just like, why would that be? Yeah, you're weird, you know, why do you want to know when I go to the toilet, you know, kind of have to explain it to them that the gut and the brain are literally connected you know, that there's the vagus nerve that goes from one to the other and that when that have information that creates a stress hormone. [inaudible] we do that. Then finally it makes sense, but it's up to us ask them about it and so it's absolutely true what Kendra said, whether you like me like sleep or whether you want to focus on skincare or whether you want to focus on hair loss, you have to look at the guide to make sure that it's in tip top shape because anything you will do from nutritionists, to supplementation, to even stress management, is not most likely not going to be [inaudible] in again. So we're actually going to talk a little bit about what we do, and also what we find are the biggest mistakes practitioners make when addressing the gut health in their client's. And I touched on it a little bit because, [inaudible] one of the first thing that comes up in a protocol is diet, right, and it all make sense because whatever you eat is going to go through the gut. So it does absolutely make sense to adjust [inaudible] and everything. And I totally agree. Absolutely agree. I think it's key building stone, but it's just not enough in our experience, right? 

Kendra:            Yeah, exactly. And I think, what I see a lot of practitioners do is they get people on these really restrictive diets, like long-term, but are really hard to follow and cause a lot of stress for people. And then that's all they do. So obviously you're right. Yep. Healthy whole foods diet, like free of additives, toxins, you know, allergens, yes you have to do that. But if that's all you do and you just get people on these really strict, like, you know, elimination diets for the long term, it may help, but it's probably not going to actually heal the gut, because I find, you know, if people's food sensitivities often go beyond just like, you know, the, the main offenders, like the processed and crap food, you'll find that sometimes people are having sensitivities to seemingly healthy foods. They're reacting to fruits and vegetables and meat or whatever. And that's not necessarily the cause of their gut issue. That's probably a symptom. And that's typically what it is. It's because the gut is broken down. They're lacking enzymes. The microbiome is a mess. They don't have hydrochloric acid in their stomach at a healthy enough level to break down protein, so all these undigested food is causing issues in their system and that's a symptom. So just pulling out the food sensitivities and getting those out of the system, sure it'll help reduce inflammation, but it may not actually correct the issue, especially when the main issue of their gut issues may actually be related to a bacterial imbalance, a dysbiosis or even an infection. Right? 

Christine:         Or parasites, the other. So, and those, that's why we a huge fans of testing just to make sure that we don't miss anything. The other thing is too, like if you use a diet that can be shaking, you know, losing any kinds of toxins, you need to be absolutely sure. First of all, that your client is also able to detoxify that so that the liver is actually in tip top shape and that they can absorb or make sure that they don't absorb whatever is going to be, you know, suddenly floating around. So I think it's, you know, having all these diets, especially detox diets and so forth, it's can be actually pretty dangerous. So really make sure that you do the prep work first, making sure that your client is actually up to speed or in shape enough to handle a diet like that too, right. So that's why I do like diets, but I don't do, make them too restrictive and I make sure that actually know what's going on in there. And so Kendra was already talking a little bit about this in microbiome and dysbiosis, and so people usually when I tell them well you probably, you might have parasites just because you see it in half of my clients and dysbiosis, I see pretty much everyone. They are pretty shocked. They're like, why? You know, I'm a clean person, I'm taking a shower every day and it's okay. So let's talk a little bit about why these gut issues might even happen in the first place, because it's just so difficult to imagine. It's this intestinal thing inside of you. It's seems well protected by several layers of skin, maybe fat. All cozy in there. So how can they actually get issues in this? So let's talk maybe about one of the first one of gut infections then is more Kendra's territory, and that is low stomach acid, and I think that's really your kind of stuff. So tell us a little bit about low stomach acid. 

Kendra:            Yeah. And before I get into that, I just want to just address something you said like that's definitely the biggest thing is that people are like, don't understand how they could have gotten these things and they think that they need to be traveling to a developing country or have really poor hygiene. But I think what people don't realize is we're ingesting thousands, if not millions of organisms on a daily basis through the food we eat through the air we breathe, the water we drink, like these things are everywhere and that's not a, that's not the issue. Like our bodies should be equipped to deal with a lot of these things. And our first line of defense is the stomach acid. So that's one of the main reasons people end up with infections is because they don't have a very acidic environment in the stomach or they actually lack the ability to produce stomach acid appropriately. So you want to have an acidic environment in the stomach because it kills off microorganisms. So it prevents those things from even getting lower into the GI tract. But there's a lot of things that could be going on that could be preventing you from producing stomach acid in proper amounts. The first two things that reduce stomach acid or stress and alcohol, right? Who's not stressed, who doesn't like to go out and get sauced on the weekend, right? Like a lot of us, we were in a big drinking alcohol consuming society, right? That will lower your stomach acid as well. Stress, right? Like these two things are everyday experiences, right? For most people. So that's probably some of the biggest ones. Proton pump inhibitors are antacids. You know, people have taken antacids because they're having heartburn. They think they have too much acid, but in a lot of cases it's actually they don't have enough acid, and that will suppress the acid issues further, and then there's a few that people don't know about very much at least I don't hear a lot of practitioners talking about them. One is hyperthyroid. Anything that reduces the metabolism is going to reduce the output of the stomach acid. Thyroid issues are pretty much like a pandemic in women days. Like I rarely meet a woman who doesn't have some sort of either primary thyroid issue or subclinical thyroid issue, and then the other two are copper toxicity and this is again, incredibly common in women. Most women I work with, me to. 

Christine:         Me included.

Kendra:            Most women I work with have copper toxicity. A lot of what I do is addressing the copper imbalance piece and what copper does is it actually lowers zinc and you need zinc to make stomach acid, so a zinc deficiency will lead to low stomach acid as will low sodium, which I think a lot of people are scared of sodium, we've been fear mongered about sodium, but actually 80% of the population has low sodium. That can be caused by copper toxicity, that can also be caused by stress, by dehydration, but sodium is a very, very important part of hydrochloric acid. So any of these imbalances are going to lead to that low stomach acid production. So that means now that you're ingesting these organisms, your body doesn't have its first line of defense to prevent them from getting lower into the GI tract. 

Christine:         Yeah. And then once they are there, you have a completely different kind of problem to deal with. Right? So, one of the first being that, you know, we talked about first line of descent, first line of defense being hydrochloric acid, but then you have your main immune system just underneath your gut layering. So if you imagine the different layers, the immune system is just below. So you can imagine that if that lining is basically compromise that your immune system is going to be flared up and you have tons and tons of complications, and that's where you get autoimmune diseases from because your immune system, somebody gets triggered like a crazy person. Lots of confusion happens. Our body is super, super smart, but it's not necessarily done or equipped for dealing with constant stress situations, so just creating a huge, huge, huge ton of chaos and it can take a lot of time to clean everything up again. I think having understanding that, that the gut and the immune system is so, so closely related is absolutely key. So you need to ask your client first of all, how they feel, what the digestion is like, constipation, bloated, diarrhea, all of that jazz. And then I find that, you know, very often like thyroid issues, it is an auto immune condition. You know, you find that there's a lot of connection or they would suddenly tell you, actually I have fibromyalgia or another autoimmune disease. So I often find that that comes together. And then last thing obviously that we're going to talk about because it's the big, big topic and it has been a huge topic in the last decade I would say is, gluten, right? So usually, and I'm sure when your health practitioner you have had that too, when you talk about gluten, people are like, oh, it's just a hype. [inaudible] hype, it just drives me nuts, right. The earth was flat too at some point. It doesn't mean that now it's right way around. That, that's a hype, right? So it's just ridiculous. But. So let's go a little bit through why gluten is a big topic, and I love that you said before, in an ideal situation you are super healthy and your body is totally equipped to deal with all kinds of stressors including gluten. So if you super healthy, eating gluten from time to time is not going to be a problem. However, if you have the stress load that we usually have, plus already something compromised, then gluten becomes a problem because it is not meant to be digested. It can't, and it's just literally going to punch holes in your intestinal lining. So Kendra, I think you can talk about this a little bit more scientifically and Geeky than I can, but that's basically how I explain it a lot of the time. 

Kendra:            Yeah, and I think, I think that's true. I think, you know, maybe back in the day when gluten was a different molecule than what it is today, people probably didn't have an issue tolerating it, but I know, and I'm going to get this, like my facts on this are going to be a little bit off, but I believe it used to be like a four or five chain molecule and now it's like a 70 something chain molecule, like it's been hybridized and you know, changed over time. And so now it's like that gluten component, that stickiness is much more. And so it's not really the same thing. It's not like we're eating the same wheat that Jesus was eating, you know, that's just not the case. We're eating something very different. And so it is very hard to digest and there has been research that has shown that ingesting gluten actually stimulate Zonulin. Zonulin is the protein that opens those tight junctions in the gut, that basically protect your GI tract from your bloodstream. So that may be that you eat gluten and then now things are leaking into your bloodstream. The other thing that I find really interesting is that farmers will actually dump round up, I’m sorry, roundup, which is glyphosate, which is a really, really toxic chemical that is put on crops. They actually dump glyphosate onto wheat, I think a few days before or a couple of weeks or a few days before harvest because it actually increases the yield. So, you know, it kind of begs the question like, are people actually reacting to gluten? Are they reacting to roundup, to glyphosate? So this toxin that has been shown time and time and again in research to destroy the gut, because what glyphosate does to organisms is it explodes their stomachs, that's what it does to bugs. So That's interesting, right? 

Christine:         Yeah.

Kendra:            Like what's it doing in humans if it has the ability to do that insects. So I think there's that piece as well. And so I'm definitely not in the camp that I think people, everyone's gluten intolerant and they're going to be gluten intolerant for the rest of their lives. But I think if you have gut issues, it didn't just happen, it’s been going on for a long time. By the time you have those symptoms of the gut, like the gut been healthy for months, years, even decades. So at that point your body has probably lost his ability to break down something like gluten, which is already difficult to digest for the average person. 

Christine:         Yeah, I totally agree with that. So I'm not sure about the roundup thing. I think it's not helping, imagining stomachs being blown up even as tiny as they might be, but we don't have the same one in Europe so. But still people react to it. So I think it is a huge contributor, it makes it even worse, but it probably not the only thing, but it's exactly as you say, if you were healthy it would be okay in a way, but because we are already so stressed and because stress is breaking down your intestinal lining, it's just adding to, you know, it's like oxygen fueling the fire, basically. And the other thing is, you know, people might believe in it or not, but whenever I tell people not to eat gluten, just to try it for at least three weeks, the difference is massive. Like you don't necessarily notice it when you don't eat it, but you do notice it as soon as they put it back into your diet and that's just. I had a client two weeks ago and she came back, I had never thought that nutrition would have to do anything with my energy levels, but I really now know my body, like I understand what my body likes to eat when it doesn't, that doesn't mean that, she eats it like she's like when I'm invited or when we have a fancy dinner, I will relish that pasta with gluten. I just know that I have to be close to bathroom, and I'm like good on you. But I mean it's, you know, that's the 80/20 rule, which I think is like 80% of the time we tried to do your best and 20% of the time it just screw it and you just go with it as long as that's, you know, as long as it's not doing anything severe, severe. I, I completely live by that rule. So. And that's what she said, you know, I didn't know. I just had no idea how my body was reacting to it and I think a lot of people should just do that experiment and see and I think that's, three weeks is something that everyone can do and if you do. So, I always suggested you tell your people exactly what they can eat rather than tell them, just make sure that you don't eat gluten, because that's so frustrating. Whereas when you them what to eat...

Kendra:            People don't understand what gluten is in.

Christine:         No. So when you can tell them what they eat instead, then it's much easier, because then they will go shopping and they will look for the stuff that you tell them they can eat, which is much more positive than having to look at everything and see what can I, what can't I eat, right. So it's just a mindset thing a little bit.

Kendra:            Yeah. And I totally agree with that. Like it's the one thing I can sort of pull from someone's diet where they will notice a benefit. But what's, what's interesting about gluten is that, if you are reacting to, and if your body is building antibodies towards it, any exposure to gluten will keep those antibodies elevated for up to six months.

Christine:         Yeah.

Kendra:            So if your person is gluten intolerant, like an 80/20 world may not work for some people, it's a problem. For people who are reacting to gluten, I mean, they just need to avoid it because I've seen people react, their antibodies be elevated on passing from gluten and they weren't even eating it. They were just maybe cross reacting from a cutting board that they were sharing with their husband or cheering cookware or maybe that gluten was in their shampoo. Even stuff like that. For people who are really sensitive, it's going to be a big deal. 

Christine:         Yeah. No, you need to know. You need to know. And that's also why we have our next topic, which is why testing is necessary to heal the gut. Like you could say, I'm just going to avoid gluten. I'm just going to have an anti-candida diet, for example. But for us, testing is always a super crucial step because we want to know what kind of infections are there and why. So Kendra maybe you can tell us a little bit about why just having, let's say if you have candida, just having the kidney diet it might not be enough and why testing is so important and also you know, inflammation and so forth. Why you need to know what exactly is going on in there? Yeah. 

Kendra:            Yeah. And actually I have a few things to say on the candida thing because it's actually kind of drives me crazy. Like I feel like candida, such a hot topic, it's like a trendy word and everyone thinks they have candida and they go online and they look at the symptoms and they self-diagnose themselves. Okay. I've got candida overgrowth. But the thing is, is like those symptoms for candida are the exact same for any other type of infection. So what you actually might be dealing with might not be candida at all. And then you go on this three weeks, candida diet and you're like okay, [inaudible] but yeast. But also other infections, like they're very opportunistic and they're very good at adapting. So if you starve, going super low sugar, low carb candida diet, that yeast might just start eating protein or fat, like they will just eat what they can. So, you know, a three-week candida diet isn't going to do it. And then if you do in fact have candida or yeast these infections are often secondary. So for example, candida lives naturally in the large intestines. It should be there, if it's overgrowing, the question is why, why is it overgrowing? It is because it can. So typically there is going to be another infection and diet isn't enough to make infection go away because they will just adapt. They will eat ketones, they will eat protein, they will eat whatever the hell they need to eat to survive, and they will just keep on living. And so the reason we like testing is because you want to know what you're dealing with, because depending on the type of infection you have, that might 100% effect the treatment protocol for your client. You know, for example, if they have H. pylori, that's going to be a completely different course of treatment versus if they have a parasite like blastocystis hominis or if they have a bacterial infection like c diff or if they actually have candida, like those are actually all different protocols and your client also might have all of those things. It's not just an exclusive thing, they're not mutually exclusive.

Christine:         No.

Kendra:            Like, and I see some of these panels that are completely lit up and people have parasites, bacteria, yeast, C. diff, H. pylori, and viruses and you're like, okay, it's gonna take us a year just to get through these protocols. Right? And I think, you know, with infections, especially like I have a lot of, a lot of people come to me after working with other practitioners who weren't able to help them. So this is a big reason why me and Christine are so passionate about helping you as a practitioner because people are not getting treated properly and they're going to other practitioners. So I, you know, I don't want you to have that experience, but a lot of practitioners will be like, okay, let's do this three-week parasite cleanse, let's do this, you know, four week thing and it may not be enough time. You know, certain you want to do on average two life cycles of that infection. 

Christine:         Yeah.

Kendra:            Typically, it's going to be about 60 days, sometimes it's actually going to be longer, right? 

Christine:         Yeah. I find 60, 90 days is usually like when I have them order supplements. So anything like that I usually take, take the biggest spot available and it's just do that, you know. 

Kendra:            Yeah, totally. And so... 

Christine:         Least 60 days. 

Kendra:            At least. Yeah. And so you got do these longer infection, these longer protocols. And the thing is, is, and this is again why testing is so important, you may not clear that infection in a client after the first round of treatment. Some things are very stubborn. They might actually adapt to your treatment protocol. 

Christine:         Yes.

Kendra:            So you need to retest, follow up and see if that infection is still there. And then this one really throws people off, sometimes on a retest, what you'll see is a whole new set of infections. 

Christine:         Yes, it's because you killed off, kind of the first line of defense, right. And suddenly everything is just like free in there, and it's just like, whoa, whoa, we kind of exposed here and we're kind of fighting for our lives and that's when they get detected best on these tests. You know, tests are great. They don't always pick up everything though, especially if you have a biofilm and that wasn't treated and advanced and it's tricky. So when you start treating, have the protocol, then everything starts to get basically released and it's like a whole mess in there. So yeah, I see that a lot too. 

Kendra:            Yeah. And I love that you just brought up biofilm because that's probably the primary reason why people are unable to get rid of their infections, because their practice share is not recommending a biofilm disruptor. And if you don't know what the heck we're talking about, you can think of it like Saran wrap or plastic wrap. It's this thin kind of translucent polysaccharide carbohydrate matrix that bacteria produce or parasites or yeast, back on your teeth is a biofilm, and they use it as this physical barrier, right? They kind of hide under it. And I've read that a bacteria hiding under a biofilm can resist antibiotics up to 2000 times versus something that's exposed. So you could be hitting it with herbs, but it's like under this biofilm and then even...

Christine:         Even with antibiotics, like you could even go through a round of antibiotics that is destroying everything living in there, but afterwards, when everything is eradicated and your natural police, as in probiotics has gone, then they're still there, you know, happy dancing underneath their biofilm. So you [inaudible].

Kendra:            You've just killed all their competition. 

Christine:         Yeah, and it's like hurray! 

Kendra:            Yeah. And the other, this is really creepy and I love, I love this, I love creepy things, but like the, they also use the biofilm as like a communication network. So they like talked to each other through it and they help each other adapt. So you need to break down a biofilm. So this is going to be a carbohydrate specific enzyme. Something like proteolytic enzymes, Interfase Plus is a product I use a lot, certain herb's will do it, N-acetyl cysteine on an empty stomach, like you need to give them something that's going to break that down, but this is also what can cause a lot of die off in your clients, right? Because within that biofilm are these infections, but also chemicals, toxins, heavy metals, a lot of stuff can get released on the biofilm. So.

Christine:         Clean it up. 

Kendra:            Yeah, 

Christine:         Yeah. I find that to you. And I usually talk about warfare when I talk to my clients.

Kendra:            Totally. 

Christine:         Break their defense. We're going to hit their shield. Then when there exposed we're going to come in with first batch, first cavalry, then we're going to come with the second team and we're going to fight them off, and help the probiotics, it's like a whole warfare kind of strategy session. But yeah, that's basically what it is. Aright, perfect. So let me just skip them. Ooh, juicy one. So we're going to talk, and here Kendra has to take over again because I have to say that's not my expertise, but I love the question, can you identify infections via blood chemistry? 

Kendra:            Woo, juicy question. So the answer is you can't identify specific infections, you do need a stool test to do that, but you can look at blood chemistry markers from a functional perspective. If you look at the conventional ranges you may not see it, but that can actually indicate that someone might have infections and they might need to do stool testing. So, the first thing you look at is the, the complete blood count or the CBC, if they have, say, lower high white blood cell count, if they have higher low neutrophils, low lymphocytes, high monocytes, or high eosinophils or basophils, if those are out of range that can actually indicate bacterial infections, viral infections, especially the eosinophils. Typically, if those are out of range when they're high, that actually indicates intestinal parasites. So you don't know what parasite they have, which you still do want to know because certain parasites need different treatment protocols. But that can actually, when you start seeing imbalances in the, the complete blood count, that's when you're like, okay, like something. 

Christine:         Yeah.

Kendra:            Something might be going on here, the immune system. 

Christine:         Yeah, and it's like a mock that's usually not really valued. 

Kendra:            Yeah. 

Christine:         Like traditional, like Western medicine. It's usually something that's on there but nobody really looks at it. So it's interesting when you look at it from this perspective. 

Kendra:            Yeah, and you see you want to be looking at it, the functional range. So I did put together a Freebie for this episode where I'm going to give you a little handbook and I'm actually going to tell you the markers and what ranges you want to look at to give you this indication, and this is really cool because even if you're a health coach, maybe you don't have the ability to order some of these functional tests, you can get blood work from your clients like they are already going to have that done in most cases they will have done it through their doctors through their naturopath. You can in, the US, you can send people to quest or direct labs and they can order their own blood work. I don't know if you can do that in Europe, Christine, but you can definitely do it in the US. 

Christine:         I think so, you probably, I think you can always do it, but it's going to be pretty expensive, but usually you don't have to, your GP will always say yes, like if you asked for, I don't know any GP would say, no.


Kendra:            Oh wow, I have to fight for it in Canada. Like I have to go in there and trick them. I'm like, oh, like I'm really cold and my hair's falling out.

Christine:         You’re kidding me.

Kendra:            And I'm fatigued, and I'm gaining weight, and they're like, oh, thyroid. I'm like, really? Oh my gosh, should we do thyroid testing? 

Christine:         You crack me up. Kendra you little minx. 

Kendra:            Yeah. Well it's, you know, when the government, the government pays for everything here, right? Our whole medical system is paid for the government, so they don't want to pay for anything, so you always have to really push it. But anyways, I digress. 

Christine:         Yeah, [inaudible] that's ok. 

Kendra:            So the other, this is actually a really interesting marker, and a lot of people don't know this, but high fasting glucose. So that's your blood sugar marker. And if you, I mean, so if you have a client who eats really healthy, maybe they're eating like a Paleo Diet and they're getting sleep and they're reducing stress and they're living a very healthy lifestyle, yet they still have high fasting glucose that is typically going to indicate an infection because sometimes it is of benefit, and I'm not going to go too deep into this because there's a whole other topic, but sometimes the body will make you insulin resistance on purpose because there's an infection and there was a lot of benefit that the body can get from that. So you know, you see this high fasting glucose or maybe your client has diabetes or metabolic syndrome and you're trying to give them herbs to help lower their blood sugar or increase insulin sensitivity. But actually you're fighting against what the body is trying to do on purpose. So typically you need to look for infections when there's high fasting glucose. The other one, there's a couple more I want to mention. So high ferritin alongside low serum iron levels. So iron gives us energy, but it also gives energy to infections. Parasites love iron, so ferritin is the storage form of iron, so sometimes the body is like,'Oh God, there's infections we need to starve them.’It'll start pushing iron into ferritin, into storage to sequester it from the infection, and then you're gonna end up with low serum iron levels and then of course your doctor's going to give you an iron supplement and it's not going to make you feel better and it's not going to help because you're just going to feed the infection. 

Christine:         Yeah. 

Kendra:            So, that's an interesting one. Elevated thyroid antibodies can tell you about that because typically thyroid issues are triggered by infections, so if there's an autoimmune process, there may be each H. pylori, there may be blastocystis, hominis. Those are really common with thyroid autoimmunity, and then finally high cholesterol and high triglycerides. Those can actually indicate H. pylori, which is a stomach infection, and also a primary cause of low stomach acid. So bringing it full circle. 

Christine:         Yep, this is golden, and don't forget that you get this [inaudible]... 

Kendra:            So that me on my soapbox [inaudible].

Christine:         It's amazing. Like I'm, my mind is the way to get cheat stuff actually because I need that when I look at my client’s blood tests that you can be like, oh... No, it's definitely a weak spot of mine. I've never really done any education on that in particular, but I find it's just, I feel so useless when I look at those lab tests, you know. So this is going to be super helpful. 

Kendra:            Yeah.

Christine:         All right, so testing as you've heard, we are huge fans. So when you do look at stool testing, which is, you know, in itself fun, there are different kinds of stool testing I think Kendra and I we both do, usually the same one, which is GI-map, but just to make sure that you know, what the differences are. So have PCR and we have DNA, right? So those are the two main ones that you can use. I only use one of them, so I'm not even sure what the other one does. 

Kendra:            PCR and DNA are the same test. A DNA test uses PCR, which is called polymerase chain reaction, which identifies the microscopic DNA of pathogens. And then the other one is the traditional stool test, which is microscopy.

Christine:         Oh God.

Kendra:            Come on Christine.

Christine:         Sorry, that was just like a very honest reaction. I'm like, what? 

Kendra:            So yeah. And they're like apples and oranges. So you actually can't, you don't get the same results from each of these tasks. And this is really important to understand. So typically if your clients come to you and they'd done a stool test most of the time, unless it's the GI-map or the DRG lab, I don't think there's, I don't, I'm not aware of what other companies are doing PCR testing, those are the most popular. Definitely the GI-map, but typically they're going to have done a microscopy test, which basically means that the stool goes to a lab. There's a lab tech looking through a microscope and trying to see what grows in a petri dish after 24 hours. So in order for you to get a positive result from a microscopy test, it needs to be alive so it can be grown and it needs to be present in large enough amounts to grow. So very good at picking up certain things, but the issue is not all infections thrive or survive outside of the body. They actually are anaerobic. So they need to be in an oxygen free environment to survive. Yeast is one of these, so typically you don't always see yeast on a microscopy test if you do, it means it's pretty bad, but a lot of these things will sort of self-destruct once they evacuate the body. So they're never going to be found on the microscopy tests because they can't culture it. And then you also need to have pretty abundant amounts of that organism showing up hopefully on the day that you actually took the stool test. So you are doing a microscopy past, you want to do a three or four day collection where you're collecting stool three to four days because they may not show up in large amounts every day. So, it is a good type of test for certain things, but it can miss a lot of things because there are a ton of infections you could have that or anaerobic, but also ones that might be there in smaller amounts and just don't get cultured. So... 

Christine:         Yeah. 

Kendra:            I used to run a traditional stool tests and I definitely had situations where I've had clients who had IVS and autoimmune conditions and a lot of GI issues, but their, their test was actually clean. I actually had the same situation myself. My original microscopy tests had infections. My retests was actually pretty clean. There wasn't really much on there. And then when I ran a GI-map, oh my God, it was a freaken disaster. I had one of the worst GI-map stool test I've ever seen. And so with, so with the PCR and DNA test, it actually takes the human component out. There's no lab tech. There's just a machine and the machine is, has a list of the DNA structures of these various organisms. It's more sensitive, but something to keep in mind is if the infection that you have is not on their list, that the machine is searching for... 

Christine:         It's not going to pick it up. 

Kendra:            Exactly. It's not going to pick it up. Versus the microscopy tasks can find anything that grows. So, you know, I would say in an ideal world with your client who is a millionaire and doesn't care about money, you would run both because then you'll get a really good picture. But that's, I mean, a lot of our clients don't want to run two stool test. I mean that's going to run them probably over a thousand dollars if not more. 

Christine:         Yeah, they are pretty expensive. 

Kendra:            Yeah. So that's why I actually do prefer the DNA, PCR test and that's the GI-map that you mentioned. 

Christine:         And I also find like, first of all, the GI, I did run the traditional one on myself, which is like, first of all, you need to be able to poop four days in a row, which for some people it's just impossible. I have a client who only poops twice every month, twice a month, every two weeks

Kendra:            Oh Jesus.

Christine:         Now we're on once a week. So we're super psyched. But yeah. So for her it would be absolutely impossible to do that. 

Kendra:            Yep.

Christine:         The other thing is that even if your PCR test doesn't pick up on everything, you would have so many different markers that will give you an indication that there's still something going on. So your, Escherichia Coli might be high, so you know, that's usually that goes hand in hand with having an infection. So even if it's not picking up on exactly the one that is on the list, seeing that and for example, marker that indicates that there's leaky gut plus having, you know, your immune system fared up, I will go and do an antibacterial protocol or even anti parasite protocol anyway, just for good measure. 

Kendra:            Absolutely.

Christine:         So just make sure if there's something there, it's not going to hurt you in any case, right. So when I have a feeling that there's still something going on and I have different markers pointing to a set direction, I was still implement a protocol. 

Kendra:            Yeah, absolutely. And I mean I love the GI-map because there's so many different types of infections. I mean it has a huge list of bacterial pathogens. It has tons of parasites on there. It has yeast, has a bunch of different strains of yeast, so not just candida. There's a few other strains. There are worms on there, worms were just added to the protocol, there's viruses, and then they have all their GI markers. So you can look at enzyme production, you can look at fat absorption, you can look at enzymes that cause estrogen dominance. You can look at the immune system, you can look at gluten intolerance, you can also look at leaky gut and inflammation. So there's just a ton going on, on this test. I would call it the Cadillac of gut testing. 

Christine:         Where I order it is around 300 pounds, maybe 310 pounds, which is like 500 bucks I would probably say, or maybe a little bit more, 600, 500, but I find it's really well worth it. And depending on where you want, again, you can cover, get it covered by insurance, so.

Kendra:            Yeah, some people with good insurance in the states, like obviously if you're in Canada you're not going to get covered. But some of my American clients who have good insurance, will get it covered. They can submit it to insurance, which is great. [inaudible] GI-map. I just want to let you know, in order to order it directly from the lab, like you do need to be a licensed practitioner. Me and Christine are not licensed, but we get it because we took the FDN course which we love and that gives us access to that. So if you're thinking about taking the course, do it, we'll put the link in the show notes because it's a great course and it has given us the ability to order pretty much whatever we want in terms of lab testing, right? 

Christine:         Yes. 

Kendra:            It's like you can also form a relationship, right? You can form a relationship with a doctor, with someone who is licensed, like an ND, naturopathic doctor and acupuncturist. They'll probably charge you a fee to order it, but you can typically get it through them or if, you can always contact us, we can also hook you up [inaudible] test with their clients. I do practitioner mentoring. So I train, I train a lot of people in understanding this test, how to interpret it, and what protocols that you should actually be putting in, depending on what you see. 

Christine:         Yeah, that's what I do with my mentees too. Like when I have someone, I mentor a couple of people in sleep coaching and I will, I always teach them that, and the Dutch as well. 

Kendra:            Awesome. Love it. 

Christine:         Alright, so I think we've covered pretty much everything. I think so. Yes. Kendra has put together an amazing guide. So she has a free GI-map interpretation guide, plus you have the blood serum free gift. So this is just like Christmas come early, we're in September. Just about today. This is going to be, I mean October, but it's literally like Christmas come early. Pretty much exciting. So if you went to say a thank you for all of this, then don't forget to leave us an iTunes review. And also we have the poopily magnet which is our gift [inaudible]. But if you think this is awesome, it's going to save you so much money. Just looking at it course like this would be a couple of thousand bucks easily. You can leave us a little thank you note on Patreon where you are a fan of ours as a buck a month, I believe. So if you want to do that then go to our website. You have a huge red button at the bottom where you can support us and what we do. And I think that is pretty much it for this episode. Did I forget anything?

Kendra:         Nope. I think that's everything. And so, I hope that was, I hope you guys love Poop as much as we do. We definitely love talking about this topic. Let us know. Let us know in our Facebook group, tag us on Instagram, LinkedIn, wherever we are, and just let us know what you want to learn about. If you want to learn more about poop, if you want to go deeper into the GI-map, if you want to talk about SIBO, like we definitely take requests. 

Christine:         Yes, absolutely. We're like your health practitioner jukebox. So, so this has been wonderful, Kendra. I've been learning so much actually. She's like the guru out there. [inaudible] No, it's been super fascinating, but what I can tell you is that you will change client's life. The reactions and improvements will come pretty quickly once a cleanup their gut, and it's not just the ones that put their focus on, they came to you, but their whole life is going to change, their energy levels, their weight loss, everything is just going to fall into place when you look at the gut. So, and at their poop. So it's, just, just do it.

Kendra:             Just do it.

Christine:         All right, well thank you so much guys. And we would see and hear and talk to each other in two weeks.

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